Next Generation

[Sphynx]

The big five young batting talents (IMO) are Cam Green, Will Pucovski, Jason Sangha, Jake Fraser-McGurk and Teague Wyllie.

We all know Pucs issues, but he seems adamant he is ready for next summer. Unfortunately Sangha and JFM's careers are stalling.

Just to clarify very few play first grade cricket at 14 or 15. Maybe regional first grade competitions, but not first grade where Sheffield shield squads are picked from (largely called premier cricket now). A few will but even the most talented don't get there till 16 at the earliest. Smith was 16 when he debuted at Sutherland (and never got dropped), Warner same at Easts but was 18 before he was a permanent first grader.

You've somehow managed to miss my two strongest prospects as likely test players in the next 24 months.

Campbell Kellaway and Aaron Hardie.


Kellaway is miles and miles ahead of Fraser-McGurk.

His stats are skewed somewhat as a few of his best performances have been in non-FC sanctioned tour matches.

Namely his ton against the full strength SAF bowling attack that gave the test side a fair bit of trouble.

 

[Sphynx]

Could see something along these lines in the next 2-3 years:

1. Renshaw
2. Pucovski
3. Labuschagne
4. (?)
5. Head
6. Green
7. Carey (+)
8. Cummins (c)
9. Richardson
10. Murphy
11. Morris

Head @ 4 and Kellaway @ 5 would be my long term prediction.

Possibly both Hardie and Green in the same test side also.

 

[t_94]

People still reckon Puvocski will play cricket? How many years has he spent struggling with concussion now?

How's he gonna go against international quicks who target his helmet?

Was going on talent only, assuming all available. Agree he has significant issues which he has to overcome.

 

[The Passenger]

Campbell Kellaway and Aaron Hardie.

Good call and definitely right in the mix, although I'm maybe not as convinced about Hardie as others. Not really sure why - his numbers so far have been very very good.

 

[t_94]

A few years ago, Cricket Australia split up the larger states for the pathway programs - national Under 17s and national Under 19s.

Now there's NSW Metro and NSW Country (includes ACT I'm pretty sure) and Vic Metro and Vic Country. Maybe Queensland as well? Can't remember

I wonder if this has been a positive change (more opportunity, extra players in the system) or if it's diluted the standard somewhat?

There should only be two teams in any cricket competition. Best against the best. Any more and you dilute the standard too much.

 

[toml]

I think Jack Clayton will be one to look out for over the next 2 or 3 years, hasn't quite nailed it at shield level but the majority of his best innings so far have been 2nd innings knocks with a bit of pressure on him. Won't be surprised to see him have a bit of a breakout season next year, pretty highly rated in Qld circles.

Nathan Mcsweeney had a pretty solid season across all formats too, his shield numbers are a little skewed by his first 4 matches for Qld back when he was only 18 or 19 and wasn't ready (averaged less than 15 in those matches from memory). Seems to be getting better and better every season.

 

[Coops93]

I've been thinking about this lately myself and came here wondering if there'd be a thread on it and there is, so it's something a few of us are thinking about!

I saw a post on social media that was something along the lines of: Batters under 25 with multiple test centuries - England have 3 and India have 2. It got me thinking "Sh*t, even getting batters in the squad under 25 for us is a push, let alone guys good enough to already have multiple tons". It's interesting that Cam Green is seen as the future and is on something of a "fast tracked" development phase but even he is already 24. Not sure England or India would be selecting someone like that. Even then Mitch Marsh has come in and probably shown he should be in the team over Green anyway.

The other thing I noticed is the young players in England and India have a wonderful balance of power as well as regular stroke making, when I compare that to the likes of JFM and co, they're very old school test stlye players ala smaller physically and are workers of the ball and timers, without a whole lot of power. The other nations are very modern players, bigger and with easy power. Green is of that makeup, but doesn't have the confidence yet.

I hope I'm wrong but I feel like in the not too distant future we could be looking at a pretty dire batting period. Feels right now like we've fallen behind our competitors in developing our young batters to the modern game.

 

[Happy Mastenator]

However the Ashes finishes up, we're heading towards a transition phase.

36 Khawaja
36 Warner
35 Lyon
34 Smith
33 Starc
32 Hazelwood
31 Carey
31 Marsh
30 Cummins

The cupboard seems fairly bare given that a number of those on the fringes of the current test XI are old-ish themselves:
36 Henriques
34 Boland
34 Maxwell
33 Neser
33 Burns
32 Handscomb
31 Maddinson
31 Abbott
30 Harris
30 Bancroft
30 Patterson
30 Turner

There seems to be fewer 21-25 year olds pushing for national honours than in the past. For whatever reason, it seems to take players a number of years to establish themselves in Shield ranks and to perform to a consistent enough level to warrant higher selection.

Cricket Australia has been aware of this for a while.

They tried to implement some age restrictions to State 2nd XI cricket a few years ago (certain numbers of players under 25 in each team) but it went down like a lead balloon and was removed swiftly.

At a CA conference for premier grade coaches they lectured about how national level players would often play 1st Grade Cricket by 14/15 years of age so urged them to fast-track their most talented players.

You look through the leading Shield batting and bowling figures and it tends to be the older guys dominating.

Why are there fewer young players emerging?

Who are the 21-25 year olds in the state systems who have a game that will translate to international test level? Marnus Labuschagne for one was plucked from first class ranks with a mid-30s average. Nathan Lyon another who was something of a rough diamond identified.

I think T20 has a lot to do with the lack of young Test talent coming through, for a couple of reasons:

• ordinary older players who might have retired and got a real job previously, are hanging on because the T20 money is making it worth their while;
• younger players aren't getting as many opportunities to actually play shield cricket as a result. Who needs a good technique that can survive long form cricket when the money is in being able to open your shoulders and slog the crap out of the ball. This is partly why England are moving to Bazball. This is what players are brought up on. So why ask them to play differently from their skillsets?

 

[Zach Package]

I've been thinking about this lately myself and came here wondering if there'd be a thread on it and there is, so it's something a few of us are thinking about!

I saw a post on social media that was something along the lines of: Batters under 25 with multiple test centuries - England have 3 and India have 2. It got me thinking "Sh*t, even getting batters in the squad under 25 for us is a push, let alone guys good enough to already have multiple tons". It's interesting that Cam Green is seen as the future and is on something of a "fast tracked" development phase but even he is already 24. Not sure England or India would be selecting someone like that. Even then Mitch Marsh has come in and probably shown he should be in the team over Green anyway.

The other thing I noticed is the young players in England and India have a wonderful balance of power as well as regular stroke making, when I compare that to the likes of JFM and co, they're very old school test stlye players ala smaller physically and are workers of the ball and timers, without a whole lot of power. The other nations are very modern players, bigger and with easy power. Green is of that makeup, but doesn't have the confidence yet.

I hope I'm wrong but I feel like in the not too distant future we could be looking at a pretty dire batting period. Feels right now like we've fallen behind our competitors in developing our young batters to the modern game.

JFM is an impulsive, hard hands ball striker, so he's probably not the best example because he's just manifestly not a 4 day player at this point but I can kinda see where you're coming from. The next generation of English players in particular aren't necessarily bigger but they all play 360 with very quick, whippy hands.

We haven't really produced an equivalent of Gill or Crawley 'tall, plant the front foot straight down the pitch and swing through the line' type top order player though.

 

[BGman]

Henriques

Chuckle for the week. Have been asking for his retirement from the Blues last two years, wont listen, keeps on stinking up our shield performances. Moie is well past his used by date.

There seems to be fewer 21-25 year olds pushing for national honours than in the past. For whatever reason, it seems to take players a number of years to establish themselves in Shield ranks and to perform to a consistent enough level to warrant higher selection.

We have good cause to be optimistic over those future 21-25 yr olds pushing for national honors you speak of. Did you watch the three match Junior Ashes early this year here at home, plenty of promise came to the surface there with both bat and ball. A few names to pencil in your little black book, skipper Joel Davies is now a Blues rookie, Liam Blackford, has made his VICS debut, Hugh Weibgen, Bulls rookie,Nick Davis Tassie rookie, Josh Vernon, WA rookie. I can name half dozen more players that warrant a rookie contract but for limited places. These boys would currently be 19 and be ready for Shield in two years at most. They should all be on deck for the reciprocal England Junior Ashes in Aug/Sep. Hoping someone will telecast it.

 

[BGman]

Who are the 21-25 year olds in the state systems who have a game that will translate to international test level?

Hardie, Ward, Hunt, Street are four. Lots of younger promise too, in Teague Wyllie, Cooper Connolly, Jayden Goodwin, Liam Haskett, Josh Vernon (WA), Ashley Chandrasinghe, Campbell Kellaway, Liam Blackford (VIC), Aidan Cahill, Isaac Higgins, Harry Matthias (SA) Blake Macdonald, Joel Davies, Lachlan Shaw, Hunar Verma, Ethan Jamieson, Charlie Anderson (NSW) Hugh Weibgen, Tom Whitney, Callum Vidler, Lachlan Atiken (QLD), Nick Davis, Louis, Smith, Will Sartori (TAS)

Imho WA will dominate a future Test side as I am an avid follower of junior red ball cricket there, Wyllie, Goodwin and Connolly have all come thru the pathway system and there are others to follow, specially two only 17 who are already playing top level club cricket. Just forgotten their names for the moment.

 

[Coops93]

JFM is an impulsive, hard hands ball striker, so he's probably not the best example because he's just manifestly not a 4 day player at this point but I can kinda see where you're coming from. The next generation of English players in particular aren't necessarily bigger but they all play 360 with very quick, whippy hands.

We haven't really produced an equivalent of Gill or Crawley 'tall, plant the front foot straight down the pitch and swing through the line' type top order player though.

Crawley & Brook are both taller and stronger. They aren't a lineup of them in the youths but have enough in there to be a point of difference.

 

[Coops93]

Chuckle for the week. Have been asking for his retirement from the Blues last two years, wont listen, keeps on stinking up our shield performances. Moie is well past his used by date.

We have good cause to be optimistic over those future 21-25 yr olds pushing for national honors you speak of. Did you watch the three match Junior Ashes early this year here at home, plenty of promise came to the surface there with both bat and ball. A few names to pencil in your little black book, skipper Joel Davies is now a Blues rookie, Liam Blackford, has made his VICS debut, Hugh Weibgen, Bulls rookie,Nick Davis Tassie rookie, Josh Vernon, WA rookie. I can name half dozen more players that warrant a rookie contract but for limited places. These boys would currently be 19 and be ready for Shield in two years at most. They should all be on deck for the reciprocal England Junior Ashes in Aug/Sep. Hoping someone will telecast it.

Joel Davies is the younger brother of Ollie Davies, correct? What's Ollie like in the longer forms?

On your later post, I also feel like WA will really be the producer of our best talent for the coming generation. The way they are dominating the domestic set up shows they're developing a bit of a production line of talent.

 

[BGman]

What's Ollie like in the longer forms?

Plays like a white ball specialist, unlike his younger brother.

 

[BGman]

On your later post, I also feel like WA will really be the producer of our best talent for the coming generation. The way they are dominating the domestic set up shows they're developing a bit of a production line of talent.

Spot on. Due to their excellent red ball pathways, with boys as young as 13, 15, 17 playing in their own age comps but under the umbrella of the WA Premier League (club), so they have the best coaches, training amenities and umpires for boys their age, probably in the entire nation.

 

[BGman]

Simon Budge was one of those 17 yr boys playing club top grade, I have a feeling the other was Teague Wyllie's younger brother. Other youngsters to keep an eye on are Hayden Collins, Will Malacjuk, Zed Hollick, this kid played 13s as a nine year old, Budge 10 years, so they are learning not only the rudiments of red ball cricket but the discipline and a will to win from an early age. My state has no such pathways system only community cricket so young talented boys such as my son who played from 10-16 were not encouraged to stand out as rules were all boys had to be given the same chances.

 

[akkaps]

We haven't really produced an equivalent of Gill or Crawley 'tall, plant the front foot straight down the pitch and swing through the line' type top order player though.

Shubman has a century in all three formats of the game. And an ODI double ton. And he’s only 23.

 

[Outshined]

We haven't really produced an equivalent of Gill or Crawley 'tall, plant the front foot straight down the pitch and swing through the line' type top order player though.

Aaron Hardie is the current closest to fitting this prototype imo (that my limited perspective provides)

He's been a bit iffy at 5 with WA but it's more of a decision on whether you treat him like England do with Crawley and take the good with the bad. That's still up for debate for mine since Crawley's going at <30.

Think we have to be realistic and adapt to where test cricket is headed in terms of technique and what we value in top order batsmen.

 

[Zach Package]

Aaron Hardie is the current closest to fitting this prototype imo (that my limited perspective provides)

He's been a bit iffy at 5 with WA but it's more of a decision on whether you treat him like England do with Crawley and take the good with the bad. That's still up for debate for mine since Crawley's going at <30.

Think we have to be realistic and adapt to where test cricket is headed in terms of technique and what we value in top order batsmen.

I do like Hardie, I don't think he's a long term all rounder, so will if he focusses on batting who knows how far he goes.

The other thing that is probably the influencing factor in India and England is just the sheer size of the first class system, so if you're remotely good enough you get a good go in the role you are best suited to.

 

[Happy Mastenator]

Aaron Hardie is the current closest to fitting this prototype imo (that my limited perspective provides)

He's been a bit iffy at 5 with WA but it's more of a decision on whether you treat him like England do with Crawley and take the good with the bad. That's still up for debate for mine since Crawley's going at <30.

Think we have to be realistic and adapt to where test cricket is headed in terms of technique and what we value in top order batsmen.

Where is it headed though? If teams are smart they’ll create pitches with a bit of juice for the bowlers and these hacks like Crowley will be blown away. He’s not Warner (in his prime) level of hitting where his eye could overcome technique flaws on tough pitches.

England can serve up roads at home but will get minefields away.

 

[idel one]

Timely that CA has released its Under-19 squad to tour England next month. A few names in here that have already been discussed in the thread as players of some potential;

Australia male U19 squad to tour England: Hugh Weibgen (c, QLD), Lachlan Aitken (QLD) Harkirat Bajwa (VIC), Mahli Beardman (WA), Harry Dixon (VIC), Cameron Frendo (NSW), Ryan Hicks (NSW), Sam Konstas (NSW), Rafael MacMillan (NSW), Tom Menzies (NT), Cody Reynolds (QLD), Harjas Singh (NSW), Tom Straker (NSW), Josh Vernon (WA), Callum Vidler (QLD), Corey Wasley (WA).

Article on cricket.com.au mentions that this group will form the basis of the U19 World Cup squad for next year's tournament in Sri Lanka along with a few players who were injured this time around (Charlie Anderson and Austin Anlezark and no doubt others)

Good to see a NT player in the line-up - allrounder Tom Menzies currently playing in the Strike League and going ok apparently.

 

[The Passenger]

Not seen him play but there are huge wraps on Sam Konstas from Sutherland.

 

[Zach Package]

Not seen him play but there are huge wraps on Sam Konstas from Sutherland.

Scored a 2nd grade century at 16, I’m not sure how that compares to other wonder kids at the same age though, and whether grade cricket is stronger or weaker than it was 5 years ago.

 

[Hamingja]

Cupboard is absolutely bare batting wise. It's the reason Warner now, and Finch in white ball cricket, was able to hold on for so long.

All rounders and fast bowlers look ok. Should be able to cobble together a decent pace bowling attack.

A lot rests on Murphy spin bowling wise.

 

[Coops93]

Cupboard is absolutely bare batting wise. It's the reason Warner now, and Finch in white ball cricket, was able to hold on for so long.

All rounders and fast bowlers look ok. Should be able to cobble together a decent pace bowling attack.

A lot rests on Murphy spin bowling wise.

I think this summer is the perfect chance to blood a young opener and move Warner on. I know he's said he wants to retire after the home summer as to have a bit of a home swansong, but afaic he doesn't deserve that in lieu of getting the next generation going.

Ideally it'd be Pucovski, but if not him whoever is next in line. The Pakis will be alright, we should win 3-0 but their bowling does present a decent enough challenge for an opener, without being dominant, then the West Indies should be a chance to really settle in at the level.

I'd much rather those series be used to move on to the next generation prior to a tour to NZ then a big Indian tour the following summer rather than used for Warner to bully a way to the end of his languishing career.