Mega Thread Nick Daicos - Can he be the GOAT? Part 2
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If Darcy kicks the 5 or 6 goals he could have kicked, and the Doggies won, that would make it 'super obvious' that Darcy was BOG.
It actually would have been 'obvious' had he have kicked the 6 goals in a losing team.
But he didn't, Nick had a massive last quarter, and his Pies won.
The player on the winning team is given preference on 95% of occasions, when there is not a 'super obvious' BOG in a losing team.
And I've used the example of watching Ben Cousins in a BOG performance in a 15 goal loss to Collingwood. That was 'super obvious', and validated on Brownlow night.
It actually would have been 'obvious' had he have kicked the 6 goals in a losing team.
But he didn't, Nick had a massive last quarter, and his Pies won.
The player on the winning team is given preference on 95% of occasions, when there is not a 'super obvious' BOG in a losing team.
And I've used the example of watching Ben Cousins in a BOG performance in a 15 goal loss to Collingwood. That was 'super obvious', and validated on Brownlow night.
Clearly is a big call.
Plenty of Dogs fans putting Richards and Lobb ahead of Darcy for club BnF voting.
Daicos was in top handful, only biased Baggers who are scarred from him defeating them would try and claim he wasn't.
Sure as a one-off it's impossible to tell. However we've got a couple of years worth of data regarding coaches votes and Daicos. What's the more likely scenario?
1. Pretty much every other coach gives Daicos votes even when he may not deserve as many as he gets.
2. McRae favors his player and gives him votes.
ZEV
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I think cousins only got 1 vote if we are thinking the same game...
Please post this in MRs other thread. It is one of many issues with the supposed method to detect coaches voting integrity.
He assumes that every coach would automatically, and unfairly, select their favourite player for more votes any time there is a discrepancy. It could be true in some instances but this is being passed off as an objective measuring tool.
sr36
TheBrownDog
It's pretty bizarre. The proof used to have a go at one coach for bias is an assumption that the other coaches are biased.
This was generous of you. A decent player.
Hugh McCluggage is a decent player.
Cam Raynor is an average player.
Nick Daicos is a superstar.
Will he be the GOAT? Yet to be seen, though he does have another 12 or so seasons for us to find out, so early days.
Gone Critical
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There is a lot of trolling going on here especially re the coaches voting. ND being discussed as a potential GOAT at career end is triggering for a fair few posters
To take some of the angst out of it I thought looking at his chances of being GOAT at Collingwood might also instruct as to why the threads question is a reasonable discussion IMHO
1st proviso
Being Collingwood GOAT is easier to achieve than a fair few other clubs e.g. Hawthorn, Carlton, St Kilds, NM, and Fitzroy to name a few. Especially in the modern era we dont have anyone that would challenge strongly for the top 20 of all time. So its a lower bar than a lot of other clubs.
Buckely followed by Pendles would be the current order
So where will Nick Daicos finish in that list
I think he will end up a long way ahead of any other Magpie who has played the game. Additionally he doesnt have to improve at all from his 2nd and 3rd year to achieve that. His best is already ahead of anything Pemdles has produced and the equal to Bucks best in terms of influence, ability and joy to watch for Pie supporters.
Just staying where he is now on production he would end up with a big number of B&Fs, even more AAs, likely be the highest brownlow vote getter in history and win a swag of other accolades
So I would be very surprised if he doesnt end as Collingwoods best ever. The question that follows from that iswhere will he be as overall GOAT?
I would be surprised if he gets to the level and influence of say Matthews, Carey, Lockett who I have as my best 3. Even Dunstall, Hudson is likely too much. Reckon his high water mark may be more GAJ which is pretty fantastic. I think its likely he will end up in discussion for the best team ever in the AFL/VFL.
If this is even close to right then I think having this thread is reasonable
To take some of the angst out of it I thought looking at his chances of being GOAT at Collingwood might also instruct as to why the threads question is a reasonable discussion IMHO
1st proviso
Being Collingwood GOAT is easier to achieve than a fair few other clubs e.g. Hawthorn, Carlton, St Kilds, NM, and Fitzroy to name a few. Especially in the modern era we dont have anyone that would challenge strongly for the top 20 of all time. So its a lower bar than a lot of other clubs.
Buckely followed by Pendles would be the current order
So where will Nick Daicos finish in that list
I think he will end up a long way ahead of any other Magpie who has played the game. Additionally he doesnt have to improve at all from his 2nd and 3rd year to achieve that. His best is already ahead of anything Pemdles has produced and the equal to Bucks best in terms of influence, ability and joy to watch for Pie supporters.
Just staying where he is now on production he would end up with a big number of B&Fs, even more AAs, likely be the highest brownlow vote getter in history and win a swag of other accolades
So I would be very surprised if he doesnt end as Collingwoods best ever. The question that follows from that iswhere will he be as overall GOAT?
I would be surprised if he gets to the level and influence of say Matthews, Carey, Lockett who I have as my best 3. Even Dunstall, Hudson is likely too much. Reckon his high water mark may be more GAJ which is pretty fantastic. I think its likely he will end up in discussion for the best team ever in the AFL/VFL.
If this is even close to right then I think having this thread is reasonable
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OGeez
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I think it's too early on to begin the debate for Nick Daicos being the GOAT, he's still young got heaps of potential and will be able to show his skills of the following years. If he where to move clubs (which is very unlikely) Collingwood fans would not be arguing that he was the best ever at club. So really just gotta see what happens over the next decade and who knows maybe another young talent shows himself to be even better than Nick joining the argumment as the GOAT
sr36
TheBrownDog
He's not the GOAT - there is no debate about that. The debate is whether he can become the GOAT.
Injuries aside, looks a certainty to have a Hall of Fame level career. The question is how high he can go amongst that pecking order? Legned status looks very doable. And if you're bullish, GOAT might be in reach.
In terms of what Pies would argue if he left clubs - I'm not sure - do Cats fans talk up Gaz Jr?
OGeez
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Who's your top 5 GOAT right now. Interesting to see how you rank them and how there accolades hold up. Is yours off of premierships, brownlows or just overall stats. Nick's already got a flag.
sr36
TheBrownDog
I'll talk about GOMT - greatest of my time. My criteria is considered clearly the best in the comp. As GOAT to me is about how much better you were than your peers, for how long and for how long were you in that conversation of best in the league.
Carey, Gaz *2, Judd, Diesel, Dusty, Buddy, Lockett. I'm too young to appreciate Lethal's greatness - except as a coach.
These are the blokes who I think were considered clearly the best in the comp for a while - Kouta was too but for too short a period of time. I'd have Carey number 1, Gaz Jr number 2 for longest time as clearly considered best and can't really split the others.
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Muddiemoose
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Fyfe is an interesting one as well
If he didn’t break his leg could of definitely been right in contention
But can’t change that now either
Muddiemoose
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With the inclusion of some of those talls like Buddy, Cox and even Carey young Darcy is a very interesting prospect
We have never had a player of his size have the same traits as him
He’s almost incomparable to his Peers
Muddiemoose
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Good call
Gone Critical
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Paul Salmon was almost exactly the same player but much more dominant as a 19yo than Darcy. His 1994 season when he kicked 60+ goals in 13 games before doing an ACL was scary good. His size and mobility advantage over the comp was the same scale Darcy now has.
Gone Critical
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My best 5
1. Lethal
2.Carey
3.Plugger
4. Hudson
5. Dunstall
Those 5 had a hold over the competition like no other players I have seen. Hudson may have gone to no 1 without the knee. If you look at his goalkicking career it cant be matched for the amount of games he played. Was unstoppable.
1. Lethal
2.Carey
3.Plugger
4. Hudson
5. Dunstall
Those 5 had a hold over the competition like no other players I have seen. Hudson may have gone to no 1 without the knee. If you look at his goalkicking career it cant be matched for the amount of games he played. Was unstoppable.
On current form, no he will not be GOAT. Right now, not even close. A great player but whenever I watch collingwood games he just doesn't stand out. Half of the time I'm more suprised by the disposals he has by end as I barely sighted him. In the most recent match I tried to pay more attention to his game and was left feeling disappointed. He may of got 39 disposals but at 69% eff). The way collingwood talk you would assume he invented sliced bread.
I imagine in 4-5 years it might be worth revisiting but this is ridiculous. I would easily take a young michael voss (before breaking his leg) everyday of the week and twice on Sunday.
I imagine in 4-5 years it might be worth revisiting but this is ridiculous. I would easily take a young michael voss (before breaking his leg) everyday of the week and twice on Sunday.
