Moved Thread Nick Daicos or Will Ashcroft?

[Elixuh]

Well I will be damn. I happily retract my statement, even if just for the week.
Interested in how the heatmap works though given he's got a third of his disposals on a wing but no heat sig....

Oh well, maybe I'll have to watch him more closely

He spent 98% of time in the middle, but significantly less time on ground than usual. It was his first game playing predominantly mid.

 

[VinnieB]

Well I will be damn. I happily retract my statement, even if just for the week.
Interested in how the heatmap works though given he's got a third of his disposals on a wing but no heat sig....

Oh well, maybe I'll have to watch him more closely

Do you just guess or do you watch the games?

 

[VinnieB]

I could be wrong, but is that red the heat map of where he spent most of his time?

View attachment 1723313

Maybe the centre bounce attendances could also give it away…

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

Kick outs stats need to be removed from all stats asap for multiple stats such as metres gained, kicks, disposal efficiency etc… to retain relevance.


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Personally I think most stats, in isolation, have not been relevant for at least a decade.

Absolute flogs like Hamish McLaughlin constantly talk about 'how many' they've had, which unfortunately sets some of narrative that there's a correlation between getting Disposals and being effective and/or a good player.

In isolation, stats such as Disposals, Metres Gained, Effective Disposal etc. etc. mean absolutely fu** all.


So I don't really think they need to exclude kick-ins and so on, I think people just need to stop acting like stats actually mean anything.

 

[Lingsface]

Give us the one you dont choose both jets. Be interesting to compare the brothers in 10 years time , jnr Ashcroft looks like a jet as well.

 

[Mitchell Madness]

Maybe the centre bounce attendances could also give it away…

Will day attended more centre bounces than anyone else on Sunday vs GC.
If you watch the game though, you'd have sworn he was playing half back

In response to your comment. I do not watch particular players, I watch plenty footy.
You are extremely steadfast in your views, good on you, people see things differently, don't play the man, it's unbecoming

 

[Roby]

Probably. Fighting it out with JDG in my opinion.

So if you had to choose one player to miss this years final series, would it be Nick or JDG?

 

[BRAB]

Daicos is much better and Elixuh is very wrong.

 

[Mark W]

Hmm so at the outset it is clear both are very good players and one would normally celebrate both players equally. HOWEVA, this thread was started by a Collingwood supporter and screams of desperation and insecurity.

The only real way to compare the pair is to compare them up against one another in a contest for the same ball. Now that is obviously going to be difficult when the teams only play each other once or twice a year and Nick and Will have historically played different positions - Nick backline and Will inside mid.

NEVERMIND FOUND ONE:



As you can see here, Will uses his silky skills to collect the ball and run off while Nick squibs a contest in which contact would be forthcoming. You hate to see it.

End thread.

 

[buttermuffs]

I figured it’s better to put it all in the one thread here instead of the constant lurking of some Lions posters in Collingwood match day threads regularly potting Daicos as soft and that he can’t handle a ‘hard tag’…

They are lame as. Who lives like that? Jesus.


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[buttermuffs]

Yes and no.

Yes, because he is a very good user by foot and hits his targets

But no, because that Inside 50 kick is the hardest one. More Inside 50s, usually results in more Clangers.



Interestingly, he only just scrapes in to the top 50 in the comp for Rebound 50s too.

Does he kick short a lot?

From what I’ve always seen he’s usually taking the game on between the arcs. He’s a key player in progressing the ball and it’s obvious that’s he excels in it. He’s actually not a bad stoppage player, not in the typical inside sense but in the sense that he is so talented at receiving the ball from the clearance and creating separation and distributing it effectively from the stoppage area.


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[buttermuffs]

Ashcroft is a midfielder who pushes forward.
Daicos is a half back that pushes into the middle.

Half backs will always get more disposals as they'll often get the 1-2 (if they're any good)

It is quite concerning the lack of marks for daicos though given his position

The Pies play a run and carry game where most of their disposals will always be going forwards. They are really a team to do a lot of sideways kicks at halfback to slow the game down and opt to handball and find a kick forward.

With this, Daicos as a halfback/midfielder will always be more likely to receive a handball and be the one kicking onwards than be on the receiving end of a kick. Combine that with the fact that he is a very attacking halfback, meaning you won’t seeing him taking intercept marks either. He could add that to his game but I think he’s a midfielder long term so it’s not a crucial aspect he needs.


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[buttermuffs]

Will day attended more centre bounces than anyone else on Sunday vs GC.
If you watch the game though, you'd have sworn he was playing half back

In response to your comment. I do not watch particular players, I watch plenty footy.
You are extremely steadfast in your views, good on you, people see things differently, don't play the man, it's unbecoming

Was at the game and Will Day wasn’t even at halfback he was literally playing the spare man inside fifty for at least the entire second quarter. Was down back for a lot of the rest of the game as well but not sure if he was still the spare then.

 

[Apex36]

Ashcroft is a midfielder who pushes forward.
Daicos is a half back that pushes into the middle.

Half backs will always get more disposals as they'll often get the 1-2 (if they're any good)

It is quite concerning the lack of marks for daicos though given his position

Tell me you didn’t watch the Collingwood Adelaide game without telling me you didn’t watch the Collingwood Adelaide game.

 

[VinnieB]

So if you had to choose one player to miss this years final series, would it be Nick or JDG?

That’s a tough one.
Maybe JDG to miss.

 

[VinnieB]

Ashcroft is a midfielder who pushes forward.
Daicos is a half back that pushes into the middle.

Half backs will always get more disposals as they'll often get the 1-2 (if they're any good)

It is quite concerning the lack of marks for daicos though given his position

The ‘lack of marks’ comment is the most ridiculous stat for a half back. It just means the defense chips it back and forth. Sicily, Docherty etc get a ton of uncontested marks. So useless.

 

[PieLebo87]

He spent 98% of time in the middle, but significantly less time on ground than usual. It was his first game playing predominantly mid.

Something like 75% playing time for 37 possessions. Bloody ridiculous for a kid.

 

[PieLebo87]

Personally I think most stats, in isolation, have not been relevant for at least a decade.

Absolute flogs like Hamish McLaughlin constantly talk about 'how many' they've had, which unfortunately sets some of narrative that there's a correlation between getting Disposals and being effective and/or a good player.

In isolation, stats such as Disposals, Metres Gained, Effective Disposal etc. etc. mean absolutely fu** all.


So I don't really think they need to exclude kick-ins and so on, I think people just need to stop acting like stats actually mean anything.

You’re on the money there. This thread is perfect evidence of simple people using random bits of stats in isolation to back their misguided theory/arguments. Sphynx is the notable one.

As you said, you want to talk about stats, you put ones together to forge a view on a player’s worth.

Case in point - Daicos is #1 in the competition for disposals, yet something like 73rd for clangers. This is backed by his disposal efficiency of 78% and kicking efficiency of almost 75%.

You’ll get people somehow believing it’s inefficient because he averages 15 metres per possession without realising he’s actually #3 in the comp for metres gained.

There’s no denying he is far more looked after than any other kid in the comp with his teammates regularly feeding him, but you simply have to watch the game and see what he does with the pill to understand why they do regularly give him the footy.

Without having actually played anywhere near forward of centre for more than a few minutes per game, he’s still top 20 in the comp for score involvements. Next closest player who’d fit a role similar to how Daicos plays would probably be Liam Baker for the Tigs at 73rd and Caleb Daniel for the Dogs at 76th. Everyone else around them is either a forward or midfielder.

 

[PieLebo87]

I read somewhere he has taken approx 4 x kick-ins per game. Run 15m out of square, then kick it 55m = 70m. He obviously doesn’t do this every kick in, but kick-Ins adds probably 150-200m per game to his metres gained stats. Rozee never takes a kick out.

Luke Ryan does Freo kick outs also, hence his high metres gained.

It’s why we also see the following players appearing high in average metres gained:

Brodie Smith
Wanganeen-Milera
Houston
Dale
Stewart
Redman
Ziebell
Short
Weller
Rich
Sicily
May

I won’t go on …

Kick outs stats need to be removed from all stats asap for multiple stats such as metres gained, kicks, disposal efficiency etc… to retain relevance.


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Yet only Houston in those list of players you mentioned is in the top 10 for metres gained. How silly does that make you sound…

 

[PieLebo87]

Petracca is no. 1 in the comp for Inside 50s too.

You confuse me, my man. One moment you claim stats in isolation are pointless and you despise people who share them, then you share this.

Would you rather Petracca sending it in 6.6 i50s per game whilst going at a 57% kicking efficiency or Daicos’s 4 per game going at 75% kicking efficiency? Bearing in mind that Daicos is playing a lot further back than Petracca is who is predominantly an attacking midfielder.

I’m not comparing the two as players, just highlighting that i50s in isolation mean jack all if player B is sending it in less, but will actually deliver it where it’s meant to go more often.

 

[Sphynx]

Without having actually played anywhere near forward of centre for more than a few minutes per game, he’s still top 20 in the comp for score involvements. Next closest player who’d fit a role similar to how Daicos plays would probably be Liam Baker for the Tigs at 73rd and Caleb Daniel for the Dogs at 76th. Everyone else around them is either a forward or midfielder.

It’s Sheezel.

He has similar score involvement % numbers, similar score launch numbers, but plays in the second bottom team instead of the top, so total score involvements are lower.

They play similar roles and he’s pretty much better than Daicos was across every statistical line last year.

Your opening sentence is complete bullshit also.

Daicos spends 30% of every game in the middle and forward of center. Which is a hell of a lot more than a few minutes per game. He’s not launching goals from the wing.

 

[PieLebo87]

Hmm so at the outset it is clear both are very good players and one would normally celebrate both players equally. HOWEVA, this thread was started by a Collingwood supporter and screams of desperation and insecurity.

For someone who thinks Nick Daicos is a very good player, you don’t seem to show it when you post about him in other threads…

Daicos isn’t a mid. Just a chip scab seagull.

Daicos is Kmart LDU. LDU easily best mid in the comp.

Would it hurt the crows to body daicos. Worked for the lions, he hates contact.

Just a couple I could find to validate why I’d create this thread for you.

Now do the same and find where I’ve EVER actually had a negative thing to say about Ashcroft. Just one post.

Yet I’m the insecure one? Hmmmmm

 

[Chief Ten Beers]

Sheezel is better than Ashcroft. Sheezel is the Daicos of 2022 and Ashcroft is the Newcombe of 2022.

 

[PieLebo87]

It’s Sheezel.

He has similar score involvement % numbers, similar score launch numbers, but plays in the second bottom team instead of the top, so total score involvements are lower.

They play similar roles and he’s pretty much better than Daicos across every statistical line last year.

Like with Ashcroft, you’ll never find a post of mine actually saying a bad word about Sheezel.

He will be an absolute superstar himself. All 3 of them will be. I’m taking Nick Daicos though because IMO he has more X factor than either of the other two.

 

[Sphynx]

Like with Ashcroft, you’ll never find a post of mine actually saying a bad word about Sheezel.

He will be an absolute superstar himself. All 3 of them will be. I’m taking Nick Daicos though because IMO he has more X factor than either of the other two.

You see, that’s where you lost me. You could have claimed just about anything else

Daicos is a consistent freak, almost a robot, but in no world does he have the forward craft and X factor Sheezel has.

Daicos will end up being a midfielder, Sheezel will end up being a Steve Johnson style 50+ goal a season fwd/mid.