Nicky Winmar to take legal action against Newman, Scott and Sheahan

[WillHayward]

The knots you lot tie yourselves in in order to be offended...


You'd end up shooting your own soldiers because they called the enemy a bad word.

So u see black people and aboriginals as the 'enemy'?

Aha

Thought so

 

[Richard Pryor]

Haven't read through thread, but I'm a bit confused as to what the actual legal argument would be? While the comments were certainly dickish I don't personally understand how they would constitute slander or libel to he point of being grounds for a court case.

Just don't see how it's worth Winmar's time.

 

[deanc]

Man, is identity politics the absolute favourite conservative buzzword these days?

What is so wrong with pointing out someone is an arseh*le and has a pattern of concerning behaviour that is literally traceable to the past? Isnt conservatism about conserving things? Cant we conserve their past behaviour as evidence they are flat out assholes?

Newman did what he did because he knew itd make discussion and sell exposure and make him money. He. Is. An. arseh*le.

And if this court case sees him punished financially for it he MIGHT learn his lesson. Seems to me that the ONLY way conservatives learn their lesson is to make them open their bloody wallets.

There won't be a court case.

Sorry to be a killjoy but I'm surprised this thread is still active after Newman made a public apology yesterday. Allow me to state before anything else, I've met Sam a few times over the years and yes, he's a pretentious, self centered knob of the highest order!

Look, even if Newman doubled-down yesterday and stated something stupid like; 'Winmar's statue should be removed as it's represents false history!' - from a purely legal perspective, I seriously doubt this would enhance the elements required for legal grounds/cause to pursue this matter beyond a mediation stage.

As I've hinted in previous posts, all defamation actions in Australia rarely proceed beyond mediation - UNLESS lawyers representing the claimant can prove that:
A. The defamatory statement/s being a false statement of fact was negligently or intentionally communicated or published - and of greater importance
B. There is irrefutable evidence that (to summarize) the alleged defamatory statement/s has damaged the claimants character and reputation resulting in their current and/or potential livelihood/income being at risk..!

Also note that Defamation is a false statement of 'Fact', not 'Opinion' - so if this somehow does make it to court, having been involved in similar cases in the past, I can assure all, it would be a somewhat groundbreaking, possibly unprecedented case...!

 

[Chief]

You gotta do better than that, Chief

It was 1999. You're applying 2020 vision to a time & place which didn't have the same cultural sensitivity we have now.

To recap: Winmar failed to turn up to a pre-booked guest spot on The Footy Show. It became a running gag throughout the night. (Where is he? Is he on his way?) During the final ad break, Newman went into makeup, had his face blackened, put on a St Kilda jumper, grabbed a Sherrin and made his grand entrance as Nicky Winmar. (Here I am!!! I finally made it!!) That was the context. He wasn't intentionally denigrating Winmar's race or denigrating indigenous people. He was pretending to be Winmar and trying to milk a laugh.

Of course we all know better now, but people didn't back then. You may as well call everyone else on The Footy Show & Channel 9 racist because everyone went along with the joke. Why stop with Newman? Same with the studio audience and the half million people watching at home.

I remember a thread on Big Footy involving someone else in Blackface circa 2009 or 2010 and many people here were still clueless about it's racial insensitivity. It had become a thing in America where people began to call out others who used blackface on tv or in fancy dress parties. But many Australians were still naively ignorant. That 2010 thread was an educational tool.


Here's a story about Harry Connick jnr appearing on Hey Hey It's Saturday in 2009 and being offended when one of the Red Faces contestants appeared in blackface as Michael Jackson.

Hey Hey red-faced over blackface skit

Hey Hey host Daryl Somers issues on-air apology after blackface skit offends Harry Connick Jr.

www.abc.net.au

Mr bland himself, Daryl Somers apologised to Connick Jr: "I think we may have offended you with that act and I deeply apologise on behalf of all of us - because I know that to your countrymen, that's an insult to have a blackface routine like that on the show, so I do apologise to you,"

This is 10 years after Sam Newman! That gives you some idea about how slow Australians were to catch on to the idea that blackface was actually offensive.

Jimmy Fallon went blackface on Saturday Night Live in 2000 and impersonated Chris Rock. See my avatar. That was one year after Sam Newman's Winmar bit. Fallon brought the house down. Everyone loved it. Fallon doesn't have a racist bone in his body. He was playing the fool and trying to make people laugh and he knew no better, same as Newman

Jimmy Kimmel is one of the most socially-progressive leftists on American mainstream TV. Yet in 2001 and 2002, he was repeatedly doing Blackface on The Man Show - he had recurring skits where he pretended to be Oprah and Karl Malone. This was in America, three years after Sam Newman did his Winmar bit.

Nobody called out either of these American TV entertainers for being racist. It's only now with the BLM witch hunts that people have revisited it
So I think it's a bit of a cheap shot to label an Aussie TV entertainer as racist because of a stunt they did in 1999.

I remembering watching the Queensland Footy Show in 1995 . Queensland had just won the Sheffield Shield for the first time and the players were in the midst of a five day bender when Jimmy Maher appeared as a guest, grinning ear to ear and pissed as a fart. They were all getting stuck into him... How are you feeling Jimmy? Are you okay? "Full as a coon's Valiant" he replied and everyone laughed. I nearly fell off my chair. I thought, "Okay, I'm in Queensland. Racist one day... Racist the next."

The difference there is that everyone knew that "coon" was racist and offensive and they laughed anyway.

At the time Newman’s black face stunt was considered racist and insulting by many, many people.

Looking at his history I think anyone could make out a case that he’s bigoted. Jokes about people being “not long out of the jungle”. Complaints that a couple of blokes kissing was “gratuitous and annoying”. The Caro Wilson mannequin incident.

He intentionally degrades people and entire groups of people for “entertainment“.

 

[Grrr]

I wonder what Winmar's character of lack of character of late, taxi assault/people claiming this or that about him has anything to do with that day at Vic.Park when he pulled up his jumper and pointed to his skin. Nothing. Take down Winmar and you take down his gesture.

As a footballer he was something to watch. That gesture summed him up, he played with grace and aggression and that moment provided inspiration for indigenous people all across the country. Why would anyone want to pull that down.

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

What's nonsensical about it? Just accept that people have different opinions and quit trying to control everyone. It's not important.

I have no issue with people having different opinions.

But how they form them is often up for debate.

If you think immigration should be slowed down for example, that's fine. Just an opinion.

However there's a difference between, say, forming that opinion because you may think that we need to slow our population growth until our infrastructure and public systems catch up - and forming that opinion cause you think Muslims are evil.

Or you may not believe in Climate Change. Fair enough.

If you're a scientist who has conducted their own studies which point to something else, fine. But if you form this opinion cause you're a bible basher and you think it's an act of God - then you're a ******* that warrants being taken to account.

 

[Back One Out]

At the time Newman’s black face stunt was considered racist and insulting by many, many people.

Yeah, well.. As I've already argued, there were many, many, many, many, many more people who didn't see it that way at the time, including Newman himself and everyone at Channel 9

I agree, there would be some people in 1999 who thought it was racist, but that wasn't a mainstream opinion about "blackface" here in Australia back then. (Not even in the USA, funnily enough.) Much of the criticism directed towards Newman over that incident was inflated because he was a magnet for vitriol and Channel 9 seemed to encourage controversy in the pursuit of ratings.

Looking at his history I think anyone could make out a case that he’s bigoted. Jokes about people being “not long out of the jungle”.
Complaints that a couple of blokes kissing was “gratuitous and annoying”. The Caro Wilson mannequin incident.

Perfect example of what I mean about Newman's haters ascribing false labels to his behaviour when all he is doing pushing back against identity politics and its intrusion into sport.

That wasn't just "a couple of blokes kissing". See, you're deliberately misrepresenting the story in order to portray Newman as homophobic.

Newman was referring to the media circus surrounding the first openly gay footballer being drafted in the NFL. People decided hijack the draft day news with gay pride and inclusiveness messaging, instead of it being about football. Most footy fans couldn't give two shits about a player's sexuality. They just want to know is he any good? can he run fast? How tall is he? etc... So there was a great big hoohah about a gay bloke who taken with pick 249 who never even made it to the final roster and day 1 of the season. He was waived by the St Louis Rams during their pre-season trials..

When Michael Sam's name was called on day 3 of the draft, instead of the usual 10 second shot in the kid's living room with family and friends going mad & celebrating, there was a two minute close-up shot of him and his boyfriend embracing while his family & friends stood back out of the camera shot. Literally two minutes...

It was gratuitous. Not as in "Ewwww! Look at those 2 blokes hugging" but gratuitous as in "Yeah rightio, we get the message. He's gay. Big deal!"

Obviously Newman didn't sit there watching the NFL draft for 3 days and react homophobically and spit his coffee out when pick 249 was called. It was a media circus and became thing on social media with everybody chipping in to say their opinion. So why can't Newman have his say and express his distaste for identity politics in sport?


Here's what Michael Sam himself had to say about the media focus on his decision to come out:
"I wish you guys would just say: ‘Hey, Michael Sam, how’s football going, how’s training going?’ I would love for you to ask me that question.
But it is what it is, and I just wish you guys would see me as ‘Michael Sam the football player’, instead of ‘Michael Sam the gay football player’."

Michael Sam was basically saying the same thing as Newman's "gratuitous and annoying" (just from a different perspective)

He intentionally degrades people and entire groups of people for “entertainment“.

Yeah, he is definitely an arseh*le who doesn't give a shit about other people's feelings

While reading this thread, I noticed this other tweet from Newman's Twitter page

Some people might say it's further evidence of Newman's racism, him bullying another black man
Really, it's just him being an arseh*le and not giving a shit about being diplomatic nor what anyone else thinks of him
It would actually be more racist for Newman to pull his punches purely because Lumumba is black.

 

[Chief]

As I've already argued, there were many, many, many, many, many more people who didn't see it that at the time, including Newman himself and everyone at Channel 9

And they were out of touch. As Newman is now.

 

[Chief]

Perfect example of what I mean about Newman's haters ascribing false labels to his behaviour when all he is doing pushing back against identity politics and its intrusion into sport.

Yeah sure.

 

[Back One Out]

And they were out of touch. As Newman is now.

Being 'out of touch' is a different accusation to racism, though.

Yeah sure.

Yeah, well sneer all you want, but it's the repeated pattern of Newman's "bigoted" controversial outbursts

I guess we all just see what we wanna see, Chief...


Newman doesn't look overly homophobic to me in those "You Cannot Be Serious" clips while he's pissing about with Don Scott.

Really strange company he keeps for such a bigot

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

Being 'out of touch' is a different accusation to racism, though.

Yeah, well sneer all you want, but it's the repeated pattern of Newman's "bigoted" controversial outbursts

I guess we all just see what we wanna see, Chief...


Newman doesn't look overly homophobic to me in those "You Cannot Be Serious" clips while he's pissing about with Don Scott.

Really strange company he keeps for such a bigot

Is Don Scott gay?

Does his son know?


Besides, terms such as 'racist' and 'homophobe' are misinterpreted by many people in my opinion.

Tony Abbott is a homophobe. He thinks gay people do not deserve the same rights as straight people.

Doesn't mean he hates all gay people. And doesn't mean he can't or wouldn't have gay friends - but the fact that he thinks they should be treated differently and gicen different levels of opportunity means he is a homophobe.

Same with racists. Often people will be aghast at being called racist, because they associate it with white hoods and lynchings. But it's not limited to those extremes.

 

[Back One Out]

Is Don Scott gay? Does his son know?

I thought it was generally accepted that he was. Maybe I'm wrong about that. (Please don't sue me, Don )
What's his son got to do with it anyway? You don't think there are gay men with kids? How out of touch...

terms such as 'racist' and 'homophobe' are misinterpreted by many people in my opinion.

Tony Abbott is a homophobe. He thinks gay people do not deserve the same rights as straight people. Doesn't mean he hates all gay people. And doesn't mean he can't or wouldn't have gay friends - but the fact that he thinks they should be treated differently and gicen different levels of opportunity means he is a homophobe.

Same with racists. Often people will be aghast at being called racist, because they associate it with white hoods and lynchings. But it's not limited to those extremes.

We need some new words.

People have co-opted these terms to smear anyone who doesn't play along with their left wing politics or go along with their social agenda

If you speak out against the political activism and rioting of the "Black Lives Matter" anarchist movement, people call you a "racist". Any mention of George Floyd's criminality or drug use or resisting also sees you called a "racist" because this doesn't fit the BLM narrative that a racist police force deliberately targets & kills black men. If you refer to statistics which clearly demonstrate that police homicide of black men in America is neglible, that's also "racist" apparently.

Even if you support their fight against police brutality, but reject the left wing theory of "systemic racism", people will call you racist because you are "part of the problem".

Every practising Christian or Muslim is now called a homophobe if they believe their scriptures that homosexuality is a sin. They might further explain they're opposed to the sin, not the sinner and that we're all sinners... But they're still labelled as 'homophobes'. They might support civil unions between same sex couples, but they are branded homophobic if they wished to preserve the sanctity of their marriage ritual as the union between a man and woman

If you love your footy, but don't like seeing it being used as a platform for identity politics and social engineering, then apparently that makes you a bigot.

Even me defending Sam Newman's right to be an arseh*le and express his contrary opinions without being branded as racist, that makes me just as bad as him in the eyes of people who browse this thread and hate Newman.


These days, we can't have any nuanced opinion or difference of opinion. You're either on the side of good versus bad, or you are bad.

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

Every practising Christian or Muslim is now a homophobe if they believe their scriptures that homosexuality is a sin. They might further explain they're opposed to the sin, not the sinner and that we're all sinners... But they're still homophobes. They might support civil unions between same sex couples, but they are homophobic if they wished to preserve the sanctity of their marriage ritual as the union between a man and woman

That's true - they are.

What's your point?

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

I thought it was generally accepted that he was. Maybe I'm wrong about that. (Please don't sue me, Don )
What's his son got to do with it anyway? You don't think there are gay men with kids? How out of touch...

We need some new words.

People have co-opted these terms to smear anyone who doesn't play along with their left wing politics or go along with their social agenda

If you speak out against the political activism and rioting of the "Black Lives Matter" anarchist movement, it means you are "racist". Any mention of George Floyd's criminality or drug use or resisting also makes you a "racist" because this doesn't fit the BLM narrative that a racist police force deliberately targets & kills black men. If you refer to statistics which clearly demonstrate that police homicide of black men in America is neglible, that's also "racist".

Even if you support their fight against police brutality, but reject the left wing theory of "systemic racism", that's also "racist" because you are "part of the problem".

Every practising Christian or Muslim is now a homophobe if they believe their scriptures that homosexuality is a sin. They might further explain they're opposed to the sin, not the sinner and that we're all sinners... But they're still homophobes. They might support civil unions between same sex couples, but they are homophobic if they wished to preserve the sanctity of their marriage ritual as the union between a man and woman

If you love your footy, but don't like seeing it being used as a platform for identity politics and social engineering, then that makes you a bigot.

Even me defending Sam Newman's right to be an arseh*le and express his contrary opinions without being branded as racist, that makes me just as bad as him in the eyes of people who browse this thread and hate Newman.


These days, we can't have any nuanced opinion or difference of opinion. You're either on the side of good versus bad, or you are bad.

Isn't that basically the same as being called a 'Looney Leftie' if you don't laugh at racist jokes, or believe in Climate change, or read The Age?

 

[HairyO]

At the time Newman’s black face stunt was considered racist and insulting by many, many people.

Looking at his history I think anyone could make out a case that he’s bigoted. Jokes about people being “not long out of the jungle”. Complaints that a couple of blokes kissing was “gratuitous and annoying”. The Caro Wilson mannequin incident.

He intentionally degrades people and entire groups of people for “entertainment“.

So Fallon and Kimmell are also racist ?

BTW I dont remember anyone calling it racist. But I dont really go searching for outrage.

Is anyone pretending to be another race or religion racist / bigotted ? Or do some groups get away with it.

 

[CharacterFirst]

That's true - they are.

What's your point?

How well do you understand the bible LB?

What do you think is a Xian perspective on such issues?

Check out this guy for a pretty through and accurate perspective.

About — Sam Allberry

samallberry.com

 

[Back One Out]

Isn't that basically the same as being called a 'Looney Leftie' if you don't laugh at racist jokes, or believe in Climate change, or read The Age?

I was always taught that racism is evil. That being racist was one of the worst things you could be. Following the same path as those German Nazis in WW2, or those Ku Klux Klan nutters in the Deep South, or the white nationalists in South Africa during the Apartheid era.

I didn't want to be racist and I wanted nothing to do with anyone who was racist. Any right-minded person knows it's a deep character flaw which can be most-charitably attributed to ignorance, but in other more extreme cases, a sickness of the soul. It's always been a jarring experience for me when I’ve witnessed real, genuine racism while on holiday in far north Queensland or the NT (or anywhere else in rural Oz for that matter).

When lefties and SJWs fling accusations of racism around like it's nothing, it actually cheapens the whole concept. When I see people denounced as racist because they have different opinions or because they boo a footballer, it annoys me. It gets my back up when I’m told that I’m part of a racist system by dint of my birth and that unless I'm actively helping to dismantle that racist system, then I too am racist.

Ask any American copper how he feels right now after being spat at and told he is racist by half the population and ostracised by every Democrat mayor, governor and public official. What's that actually achieving? They've gone from the "few bad apples" minimisation to the other extreme. Apparently everything is rotten to the core... in the land of freedom & opportunity!

I remember reading many posts during the Adam Goodes saga when his defenders were tickled pink by the offence people took to being called racist.
"Who are the snowflakes now?" they laughed. I use the word "defenders" lightly because really it was a free speech issue with many people defending people's right to boo whomever they wanted, but facing a hostility, aggression and character assassination from the "woke" army.

When "racist" is invoked as a character slur, it's purpose is to marginalise the intended target. It's just a cheap and nasty way for so-called "social progressives" to shut down opposing points of view. Any conservative right winger who has a big audience, or speaks eloquently & makes good points or produces a scientific study with the data to support his case is quickly labelled as racist/homophobic/bigoted/nazi/alt-right. "Don't listen to him or her. They're nuts". It's a common tactic.

But it goes even further... Any moderate person who isn't fully on board with left wing idealogues is also considered to be part of problem and defending racism. So they become reluctant to speak up; they just go along with whatever agenda-driven crap is rammed down their throats.

Yeah, sure, I'll take a knee.

Yeah, sure, I'll wear a ribbon

Yeah, sure, man. I wouldn't be caught dead agreeing Sam Newman on any issue. Guilty by association.

Yeah, sure, whatever dude, just don't call me racist, okay? I'm one of the good guys.


It's sick. I will never be on board with that shit.

 

[The King!]

Yeah, well.. As I've already argued, there were many, many, many, many, many more people who didn't see it that way at the time, including Newman himself and everyone at Channel 9

I agree, there would be some people in 1999 who thought it was racist, but that wasn't a mainstream opinion about "blackface" here in Australia back then. (Not even in the USA, funnily enough.) Much of the criticism directed towards Newman over that incident was inflated because he was a magnet for vitriol and Channel 9 seemed to encourage controversy in the pursuit of ratings.

Perfect example of what I mean about Newman's haters ascribing false labels to his behaviour when all he is doing pushing back against identity politics and its intrusion into sport.

That wasn't just "a couple of blokes kissing". See, you're deliberately misrepresenting the story in order to portray Newman as homophobic.

Newman was referring to the media circus surrounding the first openly gay footballer being drafted in the NFL. People decided hijack the draft day news with gay pride and inclusiveness messaging, instead of it being about football. Most footy fans couldn't give two shits about a player's sexuality. They just want to know is he any good? can he run fast? How tall is he? etc... So there was a great big hoohah about a gay bloke who taken with pick 249 who never even made it to the final roster and day 1 of the season. He was waived by the St Louis Rams during their pre-season trials..

When Michael Sam's name was called on day 3 of the draft, instead of the usual 10 second shot in the kid's living room with family and friends going mad & celebrating, there was a two minute close-up shot of him and his boyfriend embracing while his family & friends stood back out of the camera shot. Literally two minutes...

It was gratuitous. Not as in "Ewwww! Look at those 2 blokes hugging" but gratuitous as in "Yeah rightio, we get the message. He's gay. Big deal!"

Obviously Newman didn't sit there watching the NFL draft for 3 days and react homophobically and spit his coffee out when pick 249 was called. It was a media circus and became thing on social media with everybody chipping in to say their opinion. So why can't Newman have his say and express his distaste for identity politics in sport?


Here's what Michael Sam himself had to say about the media focus on his decision to come out:
"I wish you guys would just say: ‘Hey, Michael Sam, how’s football going, how’s training going?’ I would love for you to ask me that question.
But it is what it is, and I just wish you guys would see me as ‘Michael Sam the football player’, instead of ‘Michael Sam the gay football player’."

Michael Sam was basically saying the same thing as Newman's "gratuitous and annoying" (just from a different perspective)


Yeah, he is definitely an arseh*le who doesn't give a sh*t about other people's feelings

While reading this thread, I noticed this other tweet from Newman's Twitter page

Some people might say it's further evidence of Newman's racism, him bullying another black man
Really, it's just him being an arseh*le and not giving a sh*t about being diplomatic nor what anyone else thinks of him
It would actually be more racist for Newman to pull his punches purely because Lumumba is black.

stop with the common sense it’s waste in here

 

[Chief]

So Fallon and Kimmell are also racist ?

BTW I dont remember anyone calling it racist. But I dont really go searching for outrage.

Is anyone pretending to be another race or religion racist / bigotted ? Or do some groups get away with it.

All I know is Newman is a ****head. Just saying.

Also, consistency traps are laid by the thick of skull.

 

[HairyO]

All I know is Newman is a fu**head. Just saying.

Thats an easy cop out. We all know that.

 

[Chief]

Thats an easy cop out. We all know that.

I edited my post to clarify my position.

 

[RichardPrentice]

I wonder if this 2008 article was produced in the mediation?

Hysteria has habit of twisting reality

www.theage.com.au

I wouldnt have thought Connolly and Russell would be coming at it from the same angle as Sheahan, Newman and Scott.

 

[Chief]

I wonder if this 2008 article was produced in the mediation?

Hysteria has habit of twisting reality

www.theage.com.au

I wouldnt have thought Connolly and Russell would be coming at it from the same angle as Sheahan, Newman and Scott.

What of it? It's the declaration he was making. Sheahan et al tried to say it was nothing to do with race and that it was activists who got a hold of it and changed the story.

Even if he said "I've got more guts than you racists chud-monkeys" it would mean the same thing.

 

[gingernuts]

I recall reading something about newman or his family paying polly farmer wagez cos the cats were broke.also is it true that newman has sponsored an indigenous golf tournament in qld for many many years

 

[Art Vandelay_]

I recall reading something about newman or his family paying polly farmer wagez cos the cats were broke.also is it true that newman has sponsored an indigenous golf tournament in qld for many many years

Story is true but goes further.


The club was broke at one point during Newman's playing days and his father and local businessman (and later life member) and club patron Alec Popescu paid the wages for the whole club. Playing and non-playing.