sblack
Brownlow Medallist
- Apr 23, 2007
- 21,379
- 4,753
- AFL Club
- Brisbane Lions
- Other Teams
- Sixers, Eagles, Man Utd, Georgetown
Well...at least for 2 years
-
AFLW 2024 - Round 9 - Indigenous Round - Chat, game threads, injury lists, team lineups and more.
No Rubio for the TWolves
- Thread starter sblack
- Start date
- Tagged users None
Messenger
No, I’m just disappointed
Perhaps, but not so straight forward.
* Rubio's US agent had begun a lawsuit against Rubio's Spanish club which was set for court in October. The case has just been dropped.
* During this time, Joventut flatly refused to discuss the buyout. That door, in theory, has reopened.
* TWolves sites have been flooded with Spanish posters recently and Rubio is stuck in an internecine war between Madrid based and Barcelona based sports journalism. The short of it is, they want Rubio in the Spanish League or in a "big" market. If you listen to what Rubio actually says, which is very little, bets are being hedged.
You need to follow the money.
* the buyout is equivalent to more than 12 months of total revenue for Joventut. And they apparently already run a deficit. The avg crowd at a game was 7700. This isn't an NBA scale economy, regardless of the quality of the talent on the court. So do you think Joventut wants Rubio to leave for nothing in two years?
* The buyout won't go to revenue - it will help clear a tax debt.
* Rubio wants to play in the NBA apparently (why else get drafted?). He's leaving US$3m on the table playing in Spain this year. He will make US$425k at Joventut, his rookie slot is worth US3.4mil (at 120%).
* Dan Fegan doesn't have a cut until Rubio comes to the US.
This NBA season is unlikely, but the chances of him coming over are higher than with the lawsuit pending.
* Rubio's US agent had begun a lawsuit against Rubio's Spanish club which was set for court in October. The case has just been dropped.
* During this time, Joventut flatly refused to discuss the buyout. That door, in theory, has reopened.
* TWolves sites have been flooded with Spanish posters recently and Rubio is stuck in an internecine war between Madrid based and Barcelona based sports journalism. The short of it is, they want Rubio in the Spanish League or in a "big" market. If you listen to what Rubio actually says, which is very little, bets are being hedged.
You need to follow the money.
* the buyout is equivalent to more than 12 months of total revenue for Joventut. And they apparently already run a deficit. The avg crowd at a game was 7700. This isn't an NBA scale economy, regardless of the quality of the talent on the court. So do you think Joventut wants Rubio to leave for nothing in two years?
* The buyout won't go to revenue - it will help clear a tax debt.
* Rubio wants to play in the NBA apparently (why else get drafted?). He's leaving US$3m on the table playing in Spain this year. He will make US$425k at Joventut, his rookie slot is worth US3.4mil (at 120%).
* Dan Fegan doesn't have a cut until Rubio comes to the US.
This NBA season is unlikely, but the chances of him coming over are higher than with the lawsuit pending.
Rubio = TWAT ..
IF he doesn't want to come over and play at the Wolves, and signs on back for the spanish league, he should banned for life from planning in the NBA ...
At least Yi had the good sense to come around and play for a year or two at Milwaukee ...
The NBA really has to go and make it clear to Euro and other overseas players that they cannot 'pick and choose' which team they play/get drafted to.
IF he doesn't want to come over and play at the Wolves, and signs on back for the spanish league, he should banned for life from planning in the NBA ...
At least Yi had the good sense to come around and play for a year or two at Milwaukee ...
The NBA really has to go and make it clear to Euro and other overseas players that they cannot 'pick and choose' which team they play/get drafted to.
Jackyboy
Debutant
Bottom line is he didn't want to go to Minnesota.... he's looking to get traded.. with the knicks in hot persuit... He is trying to take the matter of his ontract to court which i think states there is a 6mil buyout clause... something like that... anyway he wants to head to a big city team... or else he will stay over there for a year...
Cheers
Jacky
Cheers
Jacky
PHX
Quarterback Style
Misinformed much?
He is not signing back on with the spanish league, he is CONTRACTED to the spanish league and loses money big time if he comes over and plays for Minnesota. I can't say I blame him in the predicament he's in.
Yeah ban him for life for fullfilling his contractual obligations with his current team, saving himself 10x his actual salary at Joventut before coming to play for Minnesota as a washed up 20 year old.
Anyway, just as well they drafted 7 PGs - Flynn as a starter will be able to pump up his market value so they can ship him off when they bring in Rubio for another piece. Or if he is a gun himself ship off Rubio. The two prong guard approach they are pretending they will like won't need to happen if Rubio waits a few years you'd think.
Although I suspect Rubio really cbf waiting and will just bite the bullet and pay out, his posse will do everything they can to pressure Joventut but they won't budge.
Messenger
No, I’m just disappointed
Well, 2 PG's.
Flynn is a double edged sword. On one hand he gives the Wolves some leverage as they don't have to try and replace Rubio through FA or trading. If he doesn't appear this summer, they're set. On the other hand the competition aspect is clearly a factor, but Flynn has as much if not more reason to be shitty. Rubio is going to be handed the keys to the team, Flynn is going to have to adapt or fall in behind Rubio. As I've said, I think Flynn at 6 was a poor choice with Rubio drafted.
As for whether they can play together, well I'd suspect you wouldn't see them on court together that much initally, but they pairing is going to be poor on D. I'd be willing to see them try before I'd give one of them up.
Interestingly I haven't read anyone saying Stephen Curry and Monta Ellis (who are both 6'2" or 3") are going to have the same problem.
It is in no one's interests for Rubio to stay, least of all Joventut, the team who up until today he was suing.
Copulator
Club Legend
You should be banned from living
The Mollusk
Debutant
what was the point in even drafting him, epic fail
Messenger
No, I’m just disappointed
Thanks for the analysis.
He's 18, he can turn up in 2 years and still have plenty of time.
Messenger
No, I’m just disappointed
I think if you let Ricky Rubio dictate who play on his team, that is the beginning of the end.
I wouldn't have drafted Flynn, but I'm damn sure I wouldn't trade him and get sod all for him to boot at Rubio's behest. If he is good enough, he surplant Flynn easily.
Well the Wolves drafted Flynn for 1 of 3 reasons:
1. They didn't think Rubio would actually come over, and they still wanted a PG.
2. They wanted to trade Flynn or Rubio for some value.
3. They think Rubio and Flynn can play together in the backcourt.
If 1 is true, then why even pick Rubio?
If 2 is true, then hurry up and trade one of them.
And there is no way that 3 is true, no matter how much their GM is trying to convince everyone that it is.
1. They didn't think Rubio would actually come over, and they still wanted a PG.
2. They wanted to trade Flynn or Rubio for some value.
3. They think Rubio and Flynn can play together in the backcourt.
If 1 is true, then why even pick Rubio?
If 2 is true, then hurry up and trade one of them.
And there is no way that 3 is true, no matter how much their GM is trying to convince everyone that it is.
Messenger
No, I’m just disappointed
Well the Wolves drafted Flynn for 1 of 3 reasons:
1. They didn't think Rubio would actually come over, and they still wanted a PG. Possibly, although the thought was more likely that his arrival would be delayed by his contract in Spain. The buyout is a morass. Having Flynn also reduces Rubio's leverage.
2. They wanted to trade Flynn or Rubio for some value. I doubt it. The plan was to have two top 10 picks. Flynn, rightly or wrongly, was considered the BPA, so they took him. Rubio will sell plenty of tickets and the Wolves need bums in seats as much as anything.
3. They think Rubio and Flynn can play together in the backcourt. I'm dubious about it, but I'd like to see if it can work. BTW, no one seems to question the ability of Stephen Curry and Monta Ellis (both 6'3") to run the backcourt together in Golden State.
If 1 is true, then why even pick Rubio? Are you serious? You suggesting that the Wolves pass on Ricky Rubio TWICE?
If 2 is true, then hurry up and trade one of them. And get cents on the dollar for either of them? Truth is we have no idea what the real problem is. Once the buyout is sorted it will become clearer.
And there is no way that 3 is true, no matter how much their GM is trying to convince everyone that it is. Opinion[/QUOTE]
1. They didn't think Rubio would actually come over, and they still wanted a PG. Possibly, although the thought was more likely that his arrival would be delayed by his contract in Spain. The buyout is a morass. Having Flynn also reduces Rubio's leverage.
2. They wanted to trade Flynn or Rubio for some value. I doubt it. The plan was to have two top 10 picks. Flynn, rightly or wrongly, was considered the BPA, so they took him. Rubio will sell plenty of tickets and the Wolves need bums in seats as much as anything.
3. They think Rubio and Flynn can play together in the backcourt. I'm dubious about it, but I'd like to see if it can work. BTW, no one seems to question the ability of Stephen Curry and Monta Ellis (both 6'3") to run the backcourt together in Golden State.
If 1 is true, then why even pick Rubio? Are you serious? You suggesting that the Wolves pass on Ricky Rubio TWICE?
If 2 is true, then hurry up and trade one of them. And get cents on the dollar for either of them? Truth is we have no idea what the real problem is. Once the buyout is sorted it will become clearer.
And there is no way that 3 is true, no matter how much their GM is trying to convince everyone that it is. Opinion[/QUOTE]
The Mollusk
Debutant
Messenger has been on point throughout this thread and the other Rubio threads.
1. Possibly, although the thought was more likely that his arrival would be delayed by his contract in Spain. The buyout is a morass. Having Flynn also reduces Rubio's leverage.
True, but I just don't see how they can develop Flynn as a top-line PG while Rubio stays in Spain, then tell one of them to leave when Rubio comes over.
2. I doubt it. The plan was to have two top 10 picks. Flynn, rightly or wrongly, was considered the BPA, so they took him. Rubio will sell plenty of tickets and the Wolves need bums in seats as much as anything.
I will clarify: I think Rubio was the right pick. I would've picked him in a second if I was the Wolves. BUT pick 6 - I just don't see why they go with Flynn. There were SG's that they could've picked at 6 with similar ability and potential as Flynn who would've fit much more nicely in their team.
3. I'm dubious about it, but I'd like to see if it can work. BTW, no one seems to question the ability of Stephen Curry and Monta Ellis (both 6'3") to run the backcourt together in Golden State.
I think many people are questioning the Warriors plans. They simply won't play enough defence. Their styles should work better together than Rubio's and Flynn's though, as Curry is a shooter and Ellis more of a slasher.
Are you serious? You suggesting that the Wolves pass on Ricky Rubio TWICE?
Definitely not. I think Rubio will be an absolute stud and as I said before, I would've picked him. But if they Wolves KNEW he wouldn't come over if they picked another point guard, AND they weren't planning to trade him, the move doesn't make much sense.
And get cents on the dollar for either of them? Truth is we have no idea what the real problem is. Once the buyout is sorted it will become clearer.
I think Rubio is much more likely to come over and pay the buyout if you trade Flynn now. If I was Minnesota, I would talk with Rubio about this, and if he says he is willing to come over if he is guaranteed to start at PG, I would do it and trade Flynn straight away. He does have currency in this league right now. You'd be kidding yourself if you thought there aren't still teams who are desperate for a top 10 PG.
Opinion
Yeah, I will admit that it is my opinion, along with most "experts", that the Wolves GM is bluffing. I just don't truly believe that he honestly thinks playing 2 PG's will work.
BTW, I agree with the Mollusk. I like your posts Messenger. Keep up the good work.
True, but I just don't see how they can develop Flynn as a top-line PG while Rubio stays in Spain, then tell one of them to leave when Rubio comes over.
2. I doubt it. The plan was to have two top 10 picks. Flynn, rightly or wrongly, was considered the BPA, so they took him. Rubio will sell plenty of tickets and the Wolves need bums in seats as much as anything.
I will clarify: I think Rubio was the right pick. I would've picked him in a second if I was the Wolves. BUT pick 6 - I just don't see why they go with Flynn. There were SG's that they could've picked at 6 with similar ability and potential as Flynn who would've fit much more nicely in their team.
3. I'm dubious about it, but I'd like to see if it can work. BTW, no one seems to question the ability of Stephen Curry and Monta Ellis (both 6'3") to run the backcourt together in Golden State.
I think many people are questioning the Warriors plans. They simply won't play enough defence. Their styles should work better together than Rubio's and Flynn's though, as Curry is a shooter and Ellis more of a slasher.
Are you serious? You suggesting that the Wolves pass on Ricky Rubio TWICE?
Definitely not. I think Rubio will be an absolute stud and as I said before, I would've picked him. But if they Wolves KNEW he wouldn't come over if they picked another point guard, AND they weren't planning to trade him, the move doesn't make much sense.
And get cents on the dollar for either of them? Truth is we have no idea what the real problem is. Once the buyout is sorted it will become clearer.
I think Rubio is much more likely to come over and pay the buyout if you trade Flynn now. If I was Minnesota, I would talk with Rubio about this, and if he says he is willing to come over if he is guaranteed to start at PG, I would do it and trade Flynn straight away. He does have currency in this league right now. You'd be kidding yourself if you thought there aren't still teams who are desperate for a top 10 PG.
Opinion
Yeah, I will admit that it is my opinion, along with most "experts", that the Wolves GM is bluffing. I just don't truly believe that he honestly thinks playing 2 PG's will work.
BTW, I agree with the Mollusk. I like your posts Messenger. Keep up the good work.
The Mollusk
Debutant
Stephen Curry
sblack
Brownlow Medallist
- Apr 23, 2007
- 21,379
- 4,753
- AFL Club
- Brisbane Lions
- Other Teams
- Sixers, Eagles, Man Utd, Georgetown
- Banned
- #24
Not a SG, or in any case not a SG you can play alongside Rubio.
And Derozan will be a bust of epic proportions.
Messenger
No, I’m just disappointed
1. True, but I just don't see how they can develop Flynn as a top-line PG while Rubio stays in Spain, then tell one of them to leave when Rubio comes over.
They can. Just don't confuse it with what happens when he arrives. Flynn's trade value right now is very low because everyone knows the game. If he performs, he can be traded as a quality player in his own right regardless of Rubio.
2. I will clarify: I think Rubio was the right pick. I would've picked him in a second if I was the Wolves. BUT pick 6 - I just don't see why they go with Flynn. There were SG's that they could've picked at 6 with similar ability and potential as Flynn who would've fit much more nicely in their team.
Not sure which SG's you mean to be honest. Anyone else was a reach at 6. DeRozan, Williams, even Earl Clark. Next tier down we are talking about Henderson, who is likely a reach at 12. We did grab Ellington at 28 though.
3. I think many people are questioning the Warriors plans. They simply won't play enough defence. Their styles should work better together than Rubio's and Flynn's though, as Curry is a shooter and Ellis more of a slasher.
I'd argue that Rubio is a distributor and Flynn is a slasher. What's missing is an outside shot. I would also suspect that their on court time as a tandem would be limited in any event.
Are you serious? You suggesting that the Wolves pass on Ricky Rubio TWICE?
Definitely not. I think Rubio will be an absolute stud and as I said before, I would've picked him. But if they Wolves KNEW he wouldn't come over if they picked another point guard, AND they weren't planning to trade him, the move doesn't make much sense.
The Wolves couldn't know he wouldn't come over with another PG being drafted. Look I don't agree with Flynn either, but the reasoning they have used and some of the leverage it has created actually works for Minnesota. Flynn is going to be a fine PG in his own right. The focus on how this effects Rubio overlooks that. The percentage play was to take Curry at 6 and flip him to the Knicks.
And get cents on the dollar for either of them? Truth is we have no idea what the real problem is. Once the buyout is sorted it will become clearer.
I think Rubio is much more likely to come over and pay the buyout if you trade Flynn now. If I was Minnesota, I would talk with Rubio about this, and if he says he is willing to come over if he is guaranteed to start at PG, I would do it and trade Flynn straight away. He does have currency in this league right now. You'd be kidding yourself if you thought there aren't still teams who are desperate for a top 10 PG.
Rubio has already been told he'll get the starting PG role and it has been stated publicly by David Kahn. Trading either of them now is insane. If they trade Rubio now, those left who care about the Wolves will walk away.
As I said earlier, I'm not sure how much accommodation you make for Rubio and his agent just to get him to show up. What if he doesn't negotiate a deal and walks out in 5 years as a UFA while Flynn is flying somewhere else? As I said before, when you let a kid pick your squad, trouble ensues.
If this kid wants to play in the NBA, there is a process to go through. First you enter a draft where you have little or no ability to guide your destination. Second, you prove yourself. Then you get paid. If he is willing to put himself on the line, with 2 years of a contract in Spain to go with all the divisiveness that has ensued, to nominate for the draft and get drafted, do you think he is going to sit in Spain because of Jonny Flynn? Why not back yourself.
I don't think what is appreciated here is how much of a whip hand Minnesota holds here. They will wait this kid out and are equipped to do so.
The position at the moment is simple; "Ricky we value you as a player and we want to make you a cornerstone of our team. If you are not ready to come over yet, we can wait for you." And wait. And wait.
Again, follow the money. When do the most people connected with Rubio benefit. When he is in the NBA.
Yeah, I will admit that it is my opinion, along with most "experts", that the Wolves GM is bluffing. I just don't truly believe that he honestly thinks playing 2 PG's will work.
It's not an invalid opinion - I think it's chances of working are low also. But if that was Daryl Morey at Houston or Kevin Pritchard at Portland, Sam Presti at OKC or even Donnie Walsh, I doubt Chad Ford et al. would be so doubting. David Kahn has no credit in the bank and the Wolves never get the benefit of the doubt.
BTW, I agree with the Mollusk. I like your posts Messenger. Keep up the good work.
Appreciate it.
They can. Just don't confuse it with what happens when he arrives. Flynn's trade value right now is very low because everyone knows the game. If he performs, he can be traded as a quality player in his own right regardless of Rubio.
2. I will clarify: I think Rubio was the right pick. I would've picked him in a second if I was the Wolves. BUT pick 6 - I just don't see why they go with Flynn. There were SG's that they could've picked at 6 with similar ability and potential as Flynn who would've fit much more nicely in their team.
Not sure which SG's you mean to be honest. Anyone else was a reach at 6. DeRozan, Williams, even Earl Clark. Next tier down we are talking about Henderson, who is likely a reach at 12. We did grab Ellington at 28 though.
3. I think many people are questioning the Warriors plans. They simply won't play enough defence. Their styles should work better together than Rubio's and Flynn's though, as Curry is a shooter and Ellis more of a slasher.
I'd argue that Rubio is a distributor and Flynn is a slasher. What's missing is an outside shot. I would also suspect that their on court time as a tandem would be limited in any event.
Are you serious? You suggesting that the Wolves pass on Ricky Rubio TWICE?
Definitely not. I think Rubio will be an absolute stud and as I said before, I would've picked him. But if they Wolves KNEW he wouldn't come over if they picked another point guard, AND they weren't planning to trade him, the move doesn't make much sense.
The Wolves couldn't know he wouldn't come over with another PG being drafted. Look I don't agree with Flynn either, but the reasoning they have used and some of the leverage it has created actually works for Minnesota. Flynn is going to be a fine PG in his own right. The focus on how this effects Rubio overlooks that. The percentage play was to take Curry at 6 and flip him to the Knicks.
And get cents on the dollar for either of them? Truth is we have no idea what the real problem is. Once the buyout is sorted it will become clearer.
I think Rubio is much more likely to come over and pay the buyout if you trade Flynn now. If I was Minnesota, I would talk with Rubio about this, and if he says he is willing to come over if he is guaranteed to start at PG, I would do it and trade Flynn straight away. He does have currency in this league right now. You'd be kidding yourself if you thought there aren't still teams who are desperate for a top 10 PG.
Rubio has already been told he'll get the starting PG role and it has been stated publicly by David Kahn. Trading either of them now is insane. If they trade Rubio now, those left who care about the Wolves will walk away.
As I said earlier, I'm not sure how much accommodation you make for Rubio and his agent just to get him to show up. What if he doesn't negotiate a deal and walks out in 5 years as a UFA while Flynn is flying somewhere else? As I said before, when you let a kid pick your squad, trouble ensues.
If this kid wants to play in the NBA, there is a process to go through. First you enter a draft where you have little or no ability to guide your destination. Second, you prove yourself. Then you get paid. If he is willing to put himself on the line, with 2 years of a contract in Spain to go with all the divisiveness that has ensued, to nominate for the draft and get drafted, do you think he is going to sit in Spain because of Jonny Flynn? Why not back yourself.
I don't think what is appreciated here is how much of a whip hand Minnesota holds here. They will wait this kid out and are equipped to do so.
The position at the moment is simple; "Ricky we value you as a player and we want to make you a cornerstone of our team. If you are not ready to come over yet, we can wait for you." And wait. And wait.
Again, follow the money. When do the most people connected with Rubio benefit. When he is in the NBA.
Yeah, I will admit that it is my opinion, along with most "experts", that the Wolves GM is bluffing. I just don't truly believe that he honestly thinks playing 2 PG's will work.
It's not an invalid opinion - I think it's chances of working are low also. But if that was Daryl Morey at Houston or Kevin Pritchard at Portland, Sam Presti at OKC or even Donnie Walsh, I doubt Chad Ford et al. would be so doubting. David Kahn has no credit in the bank and the Wolves never get the benefit of the doubt.
BTW, I agree with the Mollusk. I like your posts Messenger. Keep up the good work.
Appreciate it.
Similar threads
- Locked
- Poll
