Resource Non-AFL General Chat

[Joao]

I don't think that will be the case as outside of India most of the test teams across the world are pretty average.

England are too busy drinking in there own bathwater with Bazball.

What we will see and seeing now is the standard of batting in test matches disintegrate across the world.

India have so much talent they could pick 3 teams. Its amazing we have beaten them in big one off games that has probably prevented a dynasty.

I still can't see countries like Pakistan, West Indies, Sri Lanka winning a series out here.

New Zealand have the ability but for some reason just melt when they see a baggy green cap.

South Africa always trouble us but barely play test cricket.

I agree with the general sentiment, but a couple of those teams will put up quality in that timeframe and we'll be nowhere near it, even if it is not obvious who those teams are right now.

I imagine this is what the post Chappell, Lillee, Marsh era was like.

 

[Docker82]

I agree with the general sentiment, but a couple of those teams will put up quality in that timeframe and we'll be nowhere near it, even if it is not obvious who those teams are right now.

I imagine this is what the post Chappell, Lillee, Marsh era was like.

I was comparing this with the 2010/11 Ashes yesterday. It’s not as bad yet but the form and age of the test team players is reasonably concerning.

I had a look at the 2009/10 shield stats and Khawaja, Smith and Hughes were all top ten for runs, averaging over 50, and under 25 years old at that point. Add to that Warner was able to be turned from a T20 specialist to all format cricketer.

Stats are a long way from everything but I just don’t think we have that young talent we did back them in the shield. Technique was probably why Warner wouldn’t have made it at test level but technically this era’s equivalents make him look like Ricky Ponting.

People keep saying just give other players (particularly youngsters) a go but the other players aren’t good enough and George Bailey knows it - at least Labuschagne, Smith, Head etc could wind back the clock rather than need a handful of magic beans to succeed at test level.

Konstas is way too young but that’s also the reason he was talked about so early - he’s the only shield batter with obvious potential to be good enough.

It’s going to be absolutely grim for the test team in 2-3 years.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

You guys are over-rating the rest of the world. It's almost impossible to be worse than the 4th best test team. We aren't going to be dominant but they'll be there abouts against anyone not Bumrah.

T20 hasn't hurt just our domestic scene

 

[Docker82]

You guys are over-rating the rest of the world. It's almost impossible to be worse than the 4th best test team. We aren't going to be dominant but they'll be there abouts against anyone not Bumrah.

T20 hasn't hurt just our domestic scene

No one cares whether we scrape over the line against Pakistan or the West Indies mate.

Getting blown away in a home Ashes or BGT will turn heads and realistically all that really matters to the majority of the Australian public. England are sh**e but I can see them beating us next summer short of a late career resurgence from some of our older players.

 

[Piggy Smalls]

Dad's Army getting taught an absolute lesson.

It's all well and good to blame 'the times' for the lack of long form batting talent, but who can blame players for focusing on short form cricket when there hasn't been any serious vacancies in the Test side for years. These players have the power to pick themselves and have the coach sacked if they so choose. The tail has been wagging the dog for years.

The levels of hubris and incompetence around the management of our Test side makes even West Coast look humble and self-aware by comparison, which is no mean feat.

 

[Joao]

You guys are over-rating the rest of the world. It's almost impossible to be worse than the 4th best test team. We aren't going to be dominant but they'll be there abouts against anyone not Bumrah.

T20 hasn't hurt just our domestic scene

As per Docker82, we are by a decent margin, the most successful cricket nation. Competing with scrub sides and getting wiped by the top end isn't desirable.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Dad's Army getting taught an absolute lesson.

It's all well and good to blame 'the times' for the lack of long form batting talent, but who can blame players for focusing on short form cricket when there hasn't been any serious vacancies in the Test side for years. These players have the power to pick themselves and have the coach sacked if they so choose. The tail has been wagging the dog for years.

The levels of hubris and incompetence around the management of our Test side makes even West Coast look humble and self-aware by comparison, which is no mean feat.

Results speak for themselves though the last few years. Nearly held all major trophies at once. The reckoning often comes twice as hard though once it all falls through as it is now. This summer will see the same overhaul we got when Paine was flown in as captain I think.

Personally, I don't know why we abandoned Smith opening. He nearly won us a game single-handedly carrying his bat. Better than throwing McSweeney to the wolves who we need to be a test player.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

As per Docker82, we are by a decent margin, the most successful cricket nation. Competing with scrub sides and getting wiped by the top end isn't desirable.

No one cares whether we scrape over the line against Pakistan or the West Indies mate.

Getting blown away in a home Ashes or BGT will turn heads and realistically all that really matters to the majority of the Australian public. England are sh**e but I can see them beating us next summer short of a late career resurgence from some of our older players.

India just got wiped at home to NZ, it can turn quicker than you think. Team just needs a refresh.

Plus, they'll start moving back to more road like pitches to pump up the batter confidence.

 

[nurries]

Dad's Army getting taught an absolute lesson.

It's all well and good to blame 'the times' for the lack of long form batting talent, but who can blame players for focusing on short form cricket when there hasn't been any serious vacancies in the Test side for years. These players have the power to pick themselves and have the coach sacked if they so choose. The tail has been wagging the dog for years.

The levels of hubris and incompetence around the management of our Test side makes even West Coast look humble and self-aware by comparison, which is no mean feat.

I agree 100% with this.

Its ridiculous to think how old this team is. Warner was basically allowed to run his own agenda last year. I was at the game yesterday and the Australians waste so much time in the field, its embarrassing. The umps do nothing about it. There is no plan B and letting Marnus bowling rank medium pacers was the last straw. This list should of been turned over a few years back. They are all going to fall off at the same time and we will be left with not much all

 

[Joao]

India just got wiped at home to NZ, it can turn quicker than you think. Team just needs a refresh.

Plus, they'll start moving back to more road like pitches to pump up the batter confidence.

I'm not half the cricket fan I was as a kid so I am not that invested, but I'll be very surprised if we are anything better than ordinary over the next 5-7 years.

Also, they won't move back to roads while Pat is captain.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

I'm not half the cricket fan I was as a kid so I am not that invested, but I'll be very surprised if we are anything better than ordinary over the next 5-7 years.

Also, they won't move back to roads while Pat is captain.

Green is our best bat now, Head is a winner when on, Inglis needs to be in the side and McSweeney is a test quality player from everything I've seen. May need to bite the bullet and invest in Konstas after this series and I also think Goodwin is promising. There is a middle order there to work with and the young pace stocks we have are as good as ever (the under 21s could be just as special as this lot). We are hurt basically losing 2 generational talents in Puco and Richardson but it will turn around.

It won't be anything like 5 years of being ordinary, it never is.

I think you're letting Freo pessimism seep into Australian cricket haha.

 

[Docker82]

India just got wiped at home to NZ, it can turn quicker than you think. Team just needs a refresh.

Plus, they'll start moving back to more road like pitches to pump up the batter confidence.

The players in the shield aren’t good enough except maybe a few quicks and Inglis. We don’t really need quicks or a keeper anyway.

This team can turn it around this year or next but I’ve never been more convinced the immediate next generation of batters (ie those playing shield atm) isn’t good enough.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Hunt the openers from SA should also be around the side. As promising as any of the state openers IMO

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

The players in the shield aren’t good enough except maybe a few quicks and Inglis. We don’t really need quicks or a keeper anyway.

This team can turn it around this year or next but I’ve never been more convinced the immediate next generation of batters isn’t good enough.

McSweeny is good enough. Hard to get a tougher gig than he's been given. A middle order of Sweendog, Green, Head, Inglis is perfectly good enough. The openers are a concern but if Konstas is as good as advertised then we just need the token blunter we often have anyway

 

[Docker82]

McSweeny is good enough. Hard to get a tougher gig than he's been given. A middle order of Sweendog, Green, Head, Inglis is perfectly good enough. The openers are a concern but if Konstas is as good as advertised then we just need the token blunter we often have anyway

McSweeney is the only batter from the shield even close to good enough and Konstas the only one that looks remotely close to getting there in the future.

If we had anyone bar Konstas that looked like a semi capable opener then McSweeney would be in the middle order in 2-3 years, like he probably will anyway tbh.

I like Green but he has not played shield in years. He’s not next generation - he’s the current generation but injured. People keep saying give a youngster a go bit those same people were saying Green should’ve been dropped 12-18 months ago.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

McSweeney is the only batter from the shield even close to good enough and Konstas the only one that looks remotely close to getting there in the future.

If we had anyone bar Konstas that looked like a semi capable opener then McSweeney would be in the middle order in 2-3 years, like he probably will anyway tbh.

I like Green but he has not played shield in years. He’s not next generation - he’s the current generation but injured. People keep saying give a youngster a go bit those same people were saying Green should’ve been dropped 12-18 months ago.

The people saying Green should have been dropped were dipshits, we are above that here. We can get a middle order going. We don't have the talent pool India have to bring in but there are enough options (benefit of cricket is you only need 6) that we can still be a good side in the next few years.

 

[Joao]

The people saying Green should have been dropped were dipshits, we are above that here. We can get a middle order going. We don't have the talent pool India have to bring in but there are enough options (benefit of cricket is you only need 6) that we can still be a good side in the next few years.

I might be Freo levels pessimistic, but I reckon you're Tigers-straight-after-the-draft levels optimistic.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

I might be Freo levels pessimistic, but I reckon you're Tigers-straight-after-the-draft levels optimistic.

Meh, come talk to me when you've been part of a dynasty, pleb.

 

[Piggy Smalls]

Results speak for themselves though the last few years. Nearly held all major trophies at once. The reckoning often comes twice as hard though once it all falls through as it is now. This summer will see the same overhaul we got when Paine was flown in as captain I think.

Personally, I don't know why we abandoned Smith opening. He nearly won us a game single-handedly carrying his bat. Better than throwing McSweeney to the wolves who we need to be a test player.

I agree that we've been successful, but TBH it's also recently been a reflection of who we've played and when we played them. If Rabada hadn't been on one leg last summer we'd have been in massive strife IMO.
Granted they're all wonderful cricketers who have had illustrious careers, but as a team it feels like its become more like a clique boy's club than a realistic and achievable ambition for kids dreaming big.
And Marnus is dog shit unless he's fielding. Luckiest batsman in the history of cricket.

 

[Docker82]

The people saying Green should have been dropped were dipshits, we are above that here. We can get a middle order going. We don't have the talent pool India have to bring in but there are enough options (benefit of cricket is you only need 6) that we can still be a good side in the next few years.

Agree with your Green comments. I just don’t see where the next generation of batters are coming from.

Even McSweeney and Konstas are 50/50 at best. No one else in shield cricket currently is above 10% IMO.

Tbh I think NSW being weak in shield cricket is also very concerning. Usually 5-6 players from NSW are absolute locks and you just need 1 or 2 players contributed from WA, Vic or Qld and the odd player from SA or Tas. That is the case atm but we’re basically picking from 60-70% of our normal player pool if they don’t lift their game. WA are much stronger than normal but tbh I don’t reckon any of the other states even come close to making up for it.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Agree with your Green comments. I just don’t see where the next generation of batters are coming from.

Even McSweeney and Konstas are 50/50 at best. No one else in shield cricket currently is above 10% IMO.

Tbh I think NSW being weak in shield cricket is also very concerning. Usually 5-6 players from NSW are absolute locks and you just need 1 or 2 players contributed from WA, Vic or Qld and the odd player from SA or Tas. That is the case atm but we’re basically picking from 60-70% of our normal player pool if they don’t lift their game. WA are much stronger than normal but tbh I don’t reckon any of the other states even come close to making up for it.

I'm convinced one of Fanning, Goodwin and Wyllie will make it at Aus level. That's an important top order piece. There's promise there even if Wyllie is out of it at the moment. Fair point on NSW though, don't know what the **** has happened there the last 10 years.

 

[Paracleet]

Green is our best bat now, Head is a winner when on, Inglis needs to be in the side and McSweeney is a test quality player from everything I've seen. May need to bite the bullet and invest in Konstas after this series and I also think Goodwin is promising. There is a middle order there to work with and the young pace stocks we have are as good as ever (the under 21s could be just as special as this lot). We are hurt basically losing 2 generational talents in Puco and Richardson but it will turn around.

It won't be anything like 5 years of being ordinary, it never is.

I think you're letting Freo pessimism seep into Australian cricket haha.

Goodwin prior to yesterday was averaging 27 with 1 first class hundred.

Even as a patriotic West Australian, having watched him on the stream and in the flesh: He doesn't have the shots or the reflexes to be a test player.

Naturally I hope i'm wrong.

Looking at the overall situation this season, top shield run scores: https://www.espncricinfo.com/record...st-runs-career/sheffield-shield-2024-25-16509 four of the top 5 are over 30 (and one already in the team) and no. 6 is Hunt who is clearly not going to make it. Down the list Clayton, Goodwin, Davies are the only young players in the list. The rest are genuine Shield players like Weatherald and McDermott. Davies is the only one with the physical talents in my view there. We're relying on the next generation who aren't scoring runs yet (other than Konstas), or another Marnus like situation for the blokes over 23.

We will get the talent coming though it's just unfortunate that the lull is coinciding with the test side approaching its used by date. For the moment the only realistic candidates to refresh are Inglis and Konstas. Plus making sure no-one lets Green bowl.

 

[Paracleet]

BTW I wouldn't be pushing the panic button yet it's still a strong side. Really its the top 3 that's the issue since none are scoring runs and you need 2 out 3 to be. They will hit the panic button though as the team despite its success has many enemies. With many people in the cricket establishment being to the right of Attila the Hun, our Pat's polite assertion of a few relatively mild mostly centrist views has him seen as a raving lesbian transgender communist from space. That combined with his treachery in removing Langer (rightfully because he is a clown) leaves him and his team by extension marked for bringing down at the first opportunity.

 

[Outshined]

India just got wiped at home to NZ, it can turn quicker than you think. Team just needs a refresh.

Plus, they'll start moving back to more road like pitches to pump up the batter confidence.

This is the elephant in the room. There's a way to go in this series but we may just be approaching another pivotal moment similar to the Argus review back in 2011 after England flattened us. There are a few similarities between now and then, like the failure to use 'smaller' series to refresh the squad and put some pressure on woefully out of form players. Pitches were also an issue although iirc it was the exact opposite problem, a fair few grounds were bowling graveyards that helped artificially inflate first class averages and didn't equip batsmen to play the moving ball.

There's arguably a dearth of in-form talent currently but extremely juicy pitches definitely don't help things. England have previously had similar problems where every half-decent military medium bowler could average 25.00 and their young batsmen simply weren't in the middle enough. It's a fine line.

In saying all of that, Australia are still a decent side despite the impending flogging. I don't think we can continue to carrying both Smith and Labuschagne though. One of them needs to move up the order to give McSweeney time to settle in his natural spot and I wouldn't mind seeing Webster or Inglis either. The bowlers had a stinker in their second innings but have far more credit in the bank than the top 6 atm.

 

[Piggy Smalls]

Is Goodwin son of Murray?