No Oppo Supporters Non Bulldog Footy Talk - Bulldogs only - Part 3

[Freshwater]

What a great end to the weekend. The Bulldog ladies lose and Richmond win the VFL Grand Final. And we all know who is going to win the Brownlow tomorrow.

B O N T E M P E L L I ! !

 

[Leon]

My two cents.

The Giants have been gifted everything?

They have, but that’s not the reason I dislike them, although I’m sure it’s one reason why many do.

The AFL wanted to avoid the mistake made with the Bears and that’s understandable.

Resentful because GWS are the new kid on the block, don’t have history etc?

Not in the slightest.

I had no problems with them coming in at the time and still don’t.

All clubs have to start somewhere and are the new kid on the block at one point or another.

The fact that they’re the new team in town is not the reason I hate them.


Ward/Griffen

Regarding Ward, I don’t dislike him as such, but it does irritate me that an impressive young player and bloke who we had, and a player who almost certainly would have been our next captain, was lost to the new kid on the block and that he’s currently amongst a group of players that are hugely unlikeable.

It was criminal negligence on the part of Fantasia that he was not re-signed earlier and that GWS actually were given the chance to poach him.

I know that Rocket Eade himself was seething at the time that Ward was not locked away when all indications were that he would have re-signed and that a new team with money to sign promising young players were about to come in and we’re obviously going to target players like Ward.

We remain shitty that Ward left and that’s understandable but for mine the club completely screwed up allowing the Giants the chance to snatch him.

With Griffen, what happened with him has been debated probably more than any thing else during my time here on BF.

I don’t approve of what he did, but there were clear issues with McCartney and the entire playing group that led to what happened.

If it wasn’t the Giants, Griffen probably would have chosen another avenue to get the hell away from McCartney.


The Lost Dogs Home Poster

Personally I thought it was lame but it’s not the reason I hate them.

For all we know, Cameron, Ward and Griffen didn’t know what their marketing team were going to do with the photo and might have been appalled by it. Who knows.

I simply thought it was lame, but not enough to start hating them by itself.



Players/Coaches etc

This is the primary reason I cannot stand the giants and want them to lose.

Greene is the obvious one for every one of us and it’s not hard to see why. I cannot stand the sight of him, he is a filthy, dirty, nauseating little shit.

The Daniel incident, the Dahlhaus incident and now Bontempelli a few weeks ago.

He got away with what he did to Dahlhaus and Bontempelli which is disgusting in itself. Kicking a player in the head and eye gouging.

Yet it wasn’t enough for him to walk out of the Tribunal free to play the next week in both incidents when everyone knew he should have been suspended.

He had to rub everyone’s noses in it re: Dahlhaus by saying that’s just the way he plays, unfortunate and blah blah blah.

Then with Bontempelli a few weeks ago it was history repeating itself. Eye gouged our player and walked out of the Tribunal free to play the following week with a smug, self satisfied attitude (and was crucial in their win against the Lions) when everyone knew he was guilty and should have been suspended.

It also wasn’t enough for the knob ends who run GWS (Matthews, Shepherd) that he got away with what he did.

When he was caught doing it again the week after, they ran with the “Toby is the real victim line”. Absolutely nauseating and completely arrogant.


But aside from Greene, their players in general are arrogant, mouthy, dirty or just generally unlikeable flogs, or a combination of all of the above. Cameron, Patton, Whitfield, Shaw, Davis are the prime examples of what I’m talking about here.


So in summary, without speaking for anyone else, I don’t hate gws because they were given draft concessions.

I don’t hate them because they’re the new kid on the block and don’t have the history we do.

I don’t hate them because of Ward and Griffen.

I simply think their players are a bunch of unlikeable mouthy flogs and thugs and cannot stand them.

 

[WallyStringhaus]

As per Fronk's post, this probably wont go down well but I'm gonna say it anyway.

Yes they were given some ridiculous concessions to start with but they have also, as good clubs do, made their own luck.

Melbourne made it quite clear to all clubs that pick 2 was on the table in the super draft of 2013. GWS pulled the trigger and got Josh Kelly and pick 20 for their own pick 9 and a fringe player in Tyson. They then got involved as a third party for the Polec from Bris to Port trade and turned that pick 20 (and 21) into pick 14 and 29 which netted them McCarthy and Lobb.

A few years later they packaged McCarthy and their own first rounder to obtain Tim Taranto. Lobb then netted them picks 11 and 19 last year.

Essentially they turned their own pick 9 and bit parts into Josh Kelly, Tim Taranto, Jye Caldwell and more draft currency. Any club could have done that deal but only GWS had the balls to pull the trigger.

Gold Coast have had similar chances to capitalise but have failed miserably.

 

[Erect]

GWS win the premiership and Leon Cameron calls Callan Ward to the stage, "you deserve this more than anyone mate". Now I don't mind Ward but please don't let this happen.

 

[King Harold]

As per Fronk's post, this probably wont go down well but I'm gonna say it anyway.

Yes they were given some ridiculous concessions to start with but they have also, as good clubs do, made their own luck.

Melbourne made it quite clear to all clubs that pick 2 was on the table in the super draft of 2013. GWS pulled the trigger and got Josh Kelly and pick 20 for their own pick 9 and a fringe player in Tyson. They then got involved as a third party for the Polec from Bris to Port trade and turned that pick 20 (and 21) into pick 14 and 29 which netted them McCarthy and Lobb.

A few years later they packaged McCarthy and their own first rounder to obtain Tim Taranto. Lobb then netted them picks 11 and 19 last year.

Essentially they turned their own pick 9 and bit parts into Josh Kelly, Tim Taranto, Jye Caldwell and more draft currency. Any club could have done that deal but only GWS had the balls to pull the trigger.

Gold Coast have had similar chances to capitalise but have failed miserably.

" Balls " yeah ok , but how many early draft picks have they been able to play around with ?
F - me they had to get a fair bit right , their recruiting team have been shooting fish in a barrel since their inception.

 

[Charlie Bucket]

I get that GWS pinched ward and griffin from us. I get that Toby Greenes the most hate-able player we’ve seen in forever.

But I’ve never understood the constant bashing of their club on here. The guys up here are doing a job that will maintain the sport we all love as the number 1 game for our lifetime and beyond.

They’re sacrificing playing at clubs they grew up barracking for, in front of big crowds, and family and friends to be here.

The playing group are a superb bunch.

No character? No soul? No idea.

Staying at a club that was kissed on the dick so regularly, they’re almost guaranteed success ? Yep, plenty of character.

Sorry, but GWS work no harder than any other club in the comp yet they’ve had their best 22 over the last 9 years moulded by the ridiculous handouts the league has given them.

Other club fans have every right to dislike them. No need to be a Western Sydney crusader, Fronk. Especially in here.

 

[Norm De Guerre]

As per Fronk's post, this probably wont go down well but I'm gonna say it anyway.

Yes they were given some ridiculous concessions to start with but they have also, as good clubs do, made their own luck.

Melbourne made it quite clear to all clubs that pick 2 was on the table in the super draft of 2013. GWS pulled the trigger and got Josh Kelly and pick 20 for their own pick 9 and a fringe player in Tyson. They then got involved as a third party for the Polec from Bris to Port trade and turned that pick 20 (and 21) into pick 14 and 29 which netted them McCarthy and Lobb.

A few years later they packaged McCarthy and their own first rounder to obtain Tim Taranto. Lobb then netted them picks 11 and 19 last year.

Essentially they turned their own pick 9 and bit parts into Josh Kelly, Tim Taranto, Jye Caldwell and more draft currency. Any club could have done that deal but only GWS had the balls to pull the trigger.

Gold Coast have had similar chances to capitalise but have failed miserably.

Their good fortune was preordained and a foundation up which the franchise was built.

I think a case can easily be made that the AFL learnt a very good lesson about what not to do when setting up a new franchise with the Giants by looking at how they'd inadvertently hobbled the Gold Coast from the outset. Its no accident that for the most part the Giants have avoided trading out of the draft for mature age age recruits like the suns did. Instead they've hit the draft since their inception and reaped the best talent in the land safe in the knowledge that they always have a foundation of high value draft picks that they could trade out to 17 eager suiters every year and then dip back into the top end of the draft, thus be in a constant state of refresh waiting until the right combination inevitably slipped into place. The AFL can live with a lame duck side in Queensland because every sport fails miserably on the Gold Coast. However, they just cannot do that in market as competitive as the one in Sydney so they were never going to make the same mistake twice and they've made sure they didn't. I reckon somewhere in AFL house there is a chart projecting the number of years that they expected the GWS to be in position to have a serious shot at their fist flag and it would show them to be exactly where the AFL want them right now

 

[WallyStringhaus]

" Balls " yeah ok , but how many early draft picks have they been able to play around with ?
F - me they had to get a fair bit right , their recruiting team have been shooting fish in a barrel since their inception.

As have the Gold Coast mate. They had 4 top 10 picks in 2016 and 4 first rounders last year and what has it done for them? SFA...they are about to get a priority pick because they suck so much.

Once they have a target in sight they do whatever it takes to get them. There were a handful of teams that had a better hand in the 2013 draft and they blew them all out of the water and set themselves up for the years that followed.

How many top picks have Melbourne had over the last two decades? How about Carlton? St.Kilda? Brisbane?

For me, they are my most disliked Club. I can't stand Greene, Mumford, Cameron, Patton and Shaw. I do however, respect what they have done. They are more well run and professional and ahead of the game than clubs that have been doing it for over 100 years. You gotta give credit where it is due.

 

[WallyStringhaus]

Their good fortune was preordained and a foundation up which the franchise was built.

I think a case can easily be made that the AFL learnt a very good lesson about what not to do when setting up a new franchise with the Giants by looking at how they'd inadvertently hobbled the Gold Coast from the outset. Its no accident that for the most part the Giants have avoided trading out of the draft for mature age age recruits like the suns did. Instead they've hit the draft since their inception and reaped the best talent in the land safe in the knowledge that they always have a foundation of high value draft picks that they could trade out to 17 eager suiters every year and then dip back into the top end of the draft, thus be in a constant state of refresh waiting until the right combination inevitably slipped into place. The AFL can live with a lame duck side in Queensland because every sport fails miserably on the Gold Coast. However, they just cannot do that in market as competitive as the one in Sydney so they were never going to make the same mistake twice and they've made sure they didn't. I reckon somewhere in AFL house there is a chart projecting the number of years that they expected the GWS to be in position to have a serious shot at their fist flag and it would show them to be exactly where the AFL want them right now

Like the majority of your posts Norm, I don't disagree with one word of what you have said.

What I will say though is that, despite the hysteria that comes with GWS, we have seen this movie before. The Eagles, Crows and Power were all playing finals within three years of their inception and all won flags within their first decade of existence.

I'm old enough to remember the hate that came with the Eagles being the first non victorian team to win a flag. It soon died off and 30 years later they remain one of the best run clubs and are pretty well respected by all and sundry. I've got a feeling GWS will be the same whilst the Suns can hitch a ride on the Freo train to eternal irrelevance...

 

[Snarls Barkley]

Melbourne made it quite clear to all clubs that pick 2 was on the table in the super draft of 2013. GWS pulled the trigger and got Josh Kelly and pick 20 for their own pick 9 and a fringe player in Tyson. They then got involved as a third party for the Polec from Bris to Port trade and turned that pick 20 (and 21) into pick 14 and 29 which netted them McCarthy and Lobb.

A few years later they packaged McCarthy and their own first rounder to obtain Tim Taranto. Lobb then netted them picks 11 and 19 last year.

Essentially they turned their own pick 9 and bit parts into Josh Kelly, Tim Taranto, Jye Caldwell and more draft currency. Any club could have done that deal but only GWS had the balls to pull the trigger.

GWS gave: pick 9 + Tyson
GWS got: Kelly + pick 22

GWS gave: pick 21 + pick 22
GWS got: Lobb+ McCarthy

GWS gave: McCarthy+ pick 7 + pick 34
GWS got: pick 3

GWS gave: Lamb (spud) + Phillips (spud) + Plowman (ok, no star) + Sumner (spud) + pick 8
GWS got: pick 28 + future first rounder (ended up being pick 16)

GWS gave: pick 3 + pick 16
GWS got: Taranto + later picks for draft points

GWS gave: Lobb+ pick 14
GWS got: Hately + O’Halloran

Summary

GWS gave: pick 9 (2013), Tyson, pick 21 (2013), pick 7 (2016), pick 34 (2016), Lamb (spud) + Phillips (spud) + Plowman (ok, no star) + Sumner (spud), pick 8 (2015), pick 14 (2018)

GWS got: Kelly, pick 28, Taranto, picks for draft points, Hately, O’Halloran

I still think it’s good management because Kelly and Taranto are stars but gave up more than pick 9 and bit parts.

 

[WallyStringhaus]

GWS gave: pick 9 + Tyson
GWS got: Kelly + pick 22

GWS gave: pick 21 + pick 22
GWS got: Lobb+ McCarthy

GWS gave: McCarthy+ pick 7 + pick 34
GWS got: pick 3

GWS gave: Lamb (spud) + Phillips (spud) + Plowman (ok, no star) + Sumner (spud) + pick 8
GWS got: pick 28 + future first rounder (ended up being pick 16)

GWS gave: pick 3 + pick 16
GWS got: Taranto + later picks for draft points

GWS gave: Lobb+ pick 14
GWS got: Hately + O’Halloran

Summary

GWS gave: pick 9 (2013), Tyson, pick 21 (2013), pick 7 (2016), pick 34 (2016), Lamb (spud) + Phillips (spud) + Plowman (ok, no star) + Sumner (spud), pick 8 (2015), pick 14 (2018)

GWS got: Kelly, pick 28, Taranto, picks for draft points, Hately, O’Halloran

I still think it’s good management because Kelly and Taranto are stars but gave up more than pick 9 and bit parts.

I rate Kelly and Taranto as A+ graders and everyone else listed as D and C graders at best...to me that is very much bit parts.

Watch them turn Hately into multiple juicy picks right when the Crows or Port have top end picks...they are very astute with what they do. Other clubs need to stop feeding the monster...

 

[Norm De Guerre]

Like the majority of your posts Norm, I don't disagree with one word of what you have said.

What I will say though is that, despite the hysteria that comes with GWS, we have seen this movie before. The Eagles, Crows and Power were all playing finals within three years of their inception and all won flags within their first decade of existence.

I'm old enough to remember the hate that came with the Eagles being the first non victorian team to win a flag. It soon died off and 30 years later they remain one of the best run clubs and are pretty well respected by all and sundry. I've got a feeling GWS will be the same whilst the Suns can hitch a ride on the Freo train to eternal irrelevance...

Only a majority?

The one good thing that has come out of the GWS joining the competition that I can get behind is that we have a genuinely felt rivalry with another team for the first time in our long history. We have rivalries of sorts with our neighbours in Essendon and Norf, but in my view they've never really been one of equals. I think the one with GWS is for real and its going to be a very long time before we have much in the way of respect for anything they stand for or achieve. I for one love it, long may it last.

 

[Snarls Barkley]

I rate Kelly and Taranto as A+ graders and everyone else listed as D and C graders at best...to me that is very much bit parts.

Watch them turn Hately into multiple juicy picks right when the Crows or Port have top end picks...they are very astute with what they do. Other clubs need to stop feeding the monster...

I don’t think you can classify 4 top 15 picks as bit parts. Good deal regardless but they did have to give up a bit.

That has been one huge difference between the Giants and Suns. Leaving GWS players seem to hold their value better than leaving Suns. Just have to look at last year, Setterfield (pick 5) with two games and coming off an ACL was still worth Carlton’s second rounder (pick 21 this year). Scrimshaw (pick 7) had played four games, traded with pick 55 to pick 46.

 

[fronkalicious]

Gold coasts fatal error was handing the reins to Clayton to spend all the chocolates the AFL gave them.

His free agents lacked leadership, and physicality. And as usual, he opted for leaner, classy outside types with a lot of his picks.

GWS went for 3 guys that would still be in their primes when the kids they drafted matured (scully, Davis and ward), alone with experienced culture guys like brogan, power and cornes that set the tone.

One team was smart with their assets. The other team pissed them away and has never recovered.

 

[WallyStringhaus]

I don’t think you can classify 4 top 15 picks as bit parts. Good deal regardless but they did have to give up a bit.

That has been one huge difference between the Giants and Suns. Leaving GWS players seem to hold their value better than leaving Suns. Just have to look at last year, Setterfield (pick 5) with two games and coming off an ACL was still worth Carlton’s second rounder (pick 21 this year). Scrimshaw (pick 7) had played four games, traded with pick 55 to pick 46.

Agree...possibly could have extracted more value out of guys like Tom Lynch too. They just had to bite the bullet and trade him a season earlier when he was non-commital about his future. Giants have been ruthless when players want to leave. They let them walk and get overs nearly every time.

 

[Mattdougie]

They are scum

End discussion

 

[Dogs Rule]

Today I find myself wanting the Plastics to cause a huge upset.

Just want to knock the cocksure Tiggers supporters off their perches - they think they’ve got it won.

 

[footscray1973]

Hey, here’s an idea... how about everyone discusses some other non Bulldog footy issue other than the orange scum?

 

[Dogs Rule]

Hey, here’s an idea... how about everyone discusses some other non Bulldog footy issue other than the orange scum?

OK, I’ll start.

Thrilled Collingwood and Geelong are out.

 

[mcgleereturns]

Who agrees one of the great modern sights in AFL TV is watching Ed storm off at the end of a loss with his sons sheepishly following behind him?


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[mcgleereturns]

Clearly I want Bont to win but who will enjoy Mcaveney cringeworthily drawing Dangerfield into a discussion about 2 Brownlows vs no Grand Finals?


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[The Buck]

Clearly I want Bont to win but who will enjoy Mcaveney cringeworthily drawing Dangerfield into a discussion about 2 Brownlows vs no Grand Finals?


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Mercifully, Macavaney isn't hosting it tonight. Hamish Mc Lachlan has got the job -- keeping it in the family.

 

[mcgleereturns]

Mercifully, Macavaney isn't hosting it tonight. Hamish Mc Lachlan has got the job -- keeping it in the family.

Yeah just heard that. Hamish will stick to the cute fluffy questions they love asking on Sunday Game Day that add nothing to serious football analysis.


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[King Harold]

As have the Gold Coast mate. They had 4 top 10 picks in 2016 and 4 first rounders last year and what has it done for them? SFA...they are about to get a priority pick because they suck so much.

Once they have a target in sight they do whatever it takes to get them. There were a handful of teams that had a better hand in the 2013 draft and they blew them all out of the water and set themselves up for the years that followed.

How many top picks have Melbourne had over the last two decades? How about Carlton? St.Kilda? Brisbane?

For me, they are my most disliked Club. I can't stand Greene, Mumford, Cameron, Patton and Shaw. I do however, respect what they have done. They are more well run and professional and ahead of the game than clubs that have been doing it for over 100 years. You gotta give credit where it is due.

I'm to much of a lazy bastard Wally to do any analysis comparing the 2 , but I think I am willing to bet GWS had a lot more chips to play with.

 

[Virgin Dog]

Clearly I want Bont to win but who will enjoy Mcaveney cringeworthily drawing Dangerfield into a discussion about 2 Brownlows vs no Grand Finals?


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I'm seriously tipping a tie to happen tonight. Bont, Danger, Fyfe, Neale and Cripps could all end up with the most votes, with there really being no clear standout. Then there's a few others who could surprise (Kelly, Macrae, Grundy, ineligible Martin, Yeo). An outright single winner almost would be disappointing, as it wouldn't really reflect just how close the top tier of players have been this year.