Oppo Camp Non-Eagles Discussion

[Chief]

Continued in Part 2:

Oppo Camp - Non-Eagles Discussion

Who gives a **** about finals anyway So overrated It’s all about the draft these days

www.bigfooty.com

 

[briztoon]

Melbourne also did it wrong the first time - few of the Melbourne 2021 squad were relics from the era of Dean Bailey (RIP) and Mark Neeld, when they went extra hard at tanking and bottoming out. Petracca, Angus Brayshaw and Oliver for example were drafted during the time of Paul Roos when they finally realised that playing nothing but kids is disastrous. None of the top pick disasters (eg Watts, Toumpas, Hogan, Scully, Trengove) were playing in 2021.

Hawthorn will be an interesting current case study on whether you can achieve success by cutting hard and rebuilding from the absolute bottom - I guess if they achieve a Grand Final within 5 years more teams will follow them.

If they try and rebuild solely through the draft for the foreseeable future, it’s hard to see them winning a final in 5 years time.

Maybe getting King as an unrestricted free agent in 2026 might help fast track them.

 

[Bender_]

This 32 for Richmond is so unco he can't even high 5 his teammates without taking out an eye.

 

[briztoon]

Don't come the raw prawn with me britzoon.

No bloke on our list with that name.

 

[Keys]

You mean the team that literally had the nickname ninthmond?

They dipped a couple of times and got Dusty and Cotchin bit they never spent years on end in the bottom couple

Six bottom 4 finishes from 2002-12 with 3 x 12th and 2 x 9th

2002 - 14/16
2003 - 13/16
2004 - 16/16
2005 - 12/16
2006 - 9/16
2007 - 16/16
2008 - 9/16
2009 - 15/16
2010 - 15/16
2011 - 12/17
2012 - 12/18

Richmond we’re shit plenty before they finally built a list around Dusty Martin who they got by being shit in 2009 (15th)

 

[briztoon]

Richmond doing well early against Melbourne

Noah Cumberland providing more evidence that Brisbane should’ve matched Richmond’s bid for him in 2019

Man, you should have seen the 5 page sh!t fight the other week on our board about this very topic.

 

[Rowan18]

This idea that there's a correct way and time needed to rebuild is one of the biggest fallacies in our sport.

The systems designed that you have to go down to get access to elite talent, but how many of the teams that have actually won anything recently spent exteneded periods (5+ years) down the bottom?

Melbourne's the only team that comes to mind but to suggest that there's only one way or recipe for success is just not backed by evidence.

This is an interesting take. Let's look at the grand finalists for the last 10 seasons to see how long they were out of finals before their run:

2013 Haw vs Freo
2014 Haw vs Syd
2015 Haw vs WCE
2016 Bulldogs vs Syd
2017 Crows vs Tigers
2018 WCE vs Pies
2019 Tigers vs GWS
2020 Tigers vs Cats
2021 Dees vs Dogs
2022 Cats vs Syd

So the teams to look at are:

Hawks - 5 years out (2002-2006)
Freo - 3 years (2007-2009)
West Coast - 3 years 2008-2010
Sydney - 1 year 2009 or 2 years (2019 2020)
Bulldogs - 4 years (2011-2014)
Crows - 2 years (2013-2014)
Tigers- 12 years (2001-2013)
GWS - 2012-2015 (4 years)
Cats - 1 year (2015)
Dees 12 years (2006-2017)

Looks like a mixed bag to me. I think you either replenish and get back within a few years (while still having senior players around) or you stuff your first build and get stuck with a 10 year journey.

 

[THE A5]

Umm that should have been 50 against Rioli

 

[Bender_]

No bloke on our list with that name.

I'm not getting sucked into what gender they identify as.

 

[RookiePick]

Looks like head office has sent down the Tigers to win directive.

Late to a contest and tackle a bloke down. No 50.

 

[Keys]

Man, you should have seen the 5 page sh!t fight the other week on our board about this very topic.

You did get Jaxon Prior with the list spot you would have used by matching so I guess it wasn’t a total loss

 

[amazingjoshy]

Six bottom 4 finishes from 2002-12 with 3 x 12th and 2 x 9th

2002 - 14/16
2003 - 13/16
2004 - 16/16
2005 - 12/16
2006 - 9/16
2007 - 16/16
2008 - 9/16
2009 - 15/16
2010 - 15/16
2011 - 12/17
2012 - 12/18

Richmond we’re s**t plenty before they finally built a list around Dusty Martin who they got by being s**t in 2009 (15th)

I'm not sure you can claim 2002-2005 as being relevenat at all in their flags though.

They got Cotchin in 2007.
So 3 years in the bottom couple from 2007?

 

[MrKK]

Beautiful night for footy. Watching the other Tigers on Anzac Eve.

 

[Carbine Chaos]

400 MCG goals for Riewoldt.

I know some don't seem to like him, but I've always found him highly watchable. Great player.

 

[Wettoaster]

Bit of pressure around the ball and the dees go to water

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[RookiePick]

400 MCG goals for Riewoldt.

I know some don't seem to like him, but I've always found him highly watchable. Great player.

Heart on his sleeve (or bursting out of his forehead) type.

 

[RookiePick]

Rioli jnr starting mid or acting as an aggressive spitter off half forward?

 

[Cuzz09]

Yes.

That's means we've really never failed.

Flags at decent re building intervals

Long may it continue

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[Avalor]

The umps/AFL love Richmond.

 

[THE A5]

Petty for a key back seems to have decent forward craft. Beaten Balta 1v1 a few times today

 

[Dylan82]

Let’s just say I agree with WCE_phil timeline for the Eagles improvement.

My opinion for the development timeline is that West Coast won't be anywhere near finals until 2026.

However I also believe once the pieces are in place things will turn dramatically thereafter.

The 2027-30 period looms as a significant period for multiple successes.

 

[briztoon]

This is an interesting take. Let's look at the grand finalists for the last 10 seasons to see how long they were out of finals before their run:

2013 Haw vs Freo
2014 Haw vs Syd
2015 Haw vs WCE
2016 Bulldogs vs Syd
2017 Crows vs Tigers
2018 WCE vs Pies
2019 Tigers vs GWS
2020 Tigers vs Cats
2021 Dees vs Dogs
2022 Cats vs Syd

So the teams to look at are:

Hawks - 5 years out (2002-2006)
Freo - 3 years (2007-2009)
West Coast - 3 years 2008-2010
Sydney - 1 year 2009 or 2 years (2019 2020)
Bulldogs - 4 years (2011-2014)
Crows - 2 years (2013-2014)
Tigers- 12 years (2001-2013)
GWS - 2012-2015 (4 years)
Cats - 1 year (2015)
Dees 12 years (2006-2017)

Looks like a mixed bag to me. I think you either replenish and get back within a few years (while still having senior players around) or you stuff your first build and get stuck with a 10 year journey.

Could look further at how long some of those teams were out of finals after making the GF. Most notably Freo, Adelaide and GWS.

Then follow Hawks now.

The one anomaly are the Pies, who only spent a year out, but benefit from father son draftees.

 

[Cuzz09]

I like the long sleeve jumper rolled up to the elbows look.

Andy Gowers Hawthorn 90s style

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[Cuzz09]

The 2027-30 period looms as a significant period for multiple successes.

ooooh it better

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[briztoon]

You did get Jaxon Prior with the list spot you would have used by matching so I guess it wasn’t a total loss

Should be in the team in place of Rich now.

Rich is a liability now with his complete lack of run, being exposed defensively and loss of yardage on his kick.

But you know, credits…

 

[Rowan18]

My opinion for the development timeline is that West Coast won't be anywhere near finals until 2026.

However I also believe once the pieces are in place things will turn dramatically thereafter.

The 2027-30 period looms as a significant period for multiple successes.

I think we all know we're not winning a flag until 12 years after 2018. So we're a lock for 2030.

1994-2006-2018-2030?