Oppo Camp Non-Essendon Football Thread XVI

[ant555]

Sure it can explain some things, just not excuse everything he wants it to…

Have a close relative with ADHD . Really nice young bloke but can be easily lead and find a bit of strife if he drinks.
Lets face it every time JDG has stuffed up it has been alcohol related.
Not condoning his behavior and would not want him at Essendon but I would say do not judge if you are not in the loop.
For all his stuff ups he has done a lot of charity work with kids which is where I crossed paths with him . You would not know he was the same bloke who can be such a tool when he is on a bender.

 

[Lore]

Have a close relative with ADHD . Really nice young bloke but can be easily lead and find a bit of strife if he drinks.
Lets face it every time JDG has stuffed up it has been alcohol related.
Not condoning his behavior and would not want him at Essendon but I would say do not judge if you are not in the loop.
For all his stuff ups he has done a lot of charity work with kids which is where I crossed paths with him . You would not know he was the same bloke who can be such a tool when he is on a bender.

From what I understand his charity work is court mandated as part of a plea bargain relating to the New York stuff? And probably by Collingwood as well given they have to do a certain number of appearances as part of their playing contracts (and you wouldn’t send him to host the Brownlow red carpet so have to find something harder for him to screw up).

Also I don’t think ADHD makes you grope people. It might make you silly and uninhibited to some degree (add that to alcohol), but if you’re not inclined to violence or groping without consent no amount of ADHD and alcohol will make you violent or gropey.

I don’t think he’d even be in the AFL system if he had the talent of Alec Waterman or Brayden Ham. Those guys don’t get to put a foot wrong, have to be ultra professional and scandal free even to stay on a list.

And then you have this bozo making them all look like dickheads by association.

 

[ant555]

From what I understand his charity work is court mandated as part of a plea bargain relating to the New York stuff? And probably by Collingwood as well given they have to do a certain number of appearances as part of their playing contracts (and you wouldn’t send him to host the Brownlow red carpet so have to find something harder for him to screw up).

Also I don’t think ADHD makes you grope people. It might make you silly and uninhibited to some degree (add that to alcohol), but if you’re not inclined to violence or groping without consent no amount of ADHD and alcohol will make you violent or gropey.

I don’t think he’d even be in the AFL system if he had the talent of Alec Waterman or Brayden Ham. Those guys don’t get to put a foot wrong, have to be ultra professional and scandal free even to stay on a list.

And then you have this bozo making them all look like dickheads by association.

He was doing charity work well before his USA. Best you do not just make a guess here. He has been doing work for a charity that I have a personal connection to for just over 4 years now.

And no ADHD does not make you grope people. Getting drunk and making bad decisions make you grope people. Violence is associated with people who have ADHD along with not thinking about consequences and difficulty resisting temptation. Violence is also a factor with drinking.


People may experience:
Behavioral: aggression, excitability, fidgeting, hyperactivity, impulsivity, irritability, lack of restraint, or persistent repetition of words or actions
Cognitive: absent-mindedness, difficulty focusing, forgetfulness, problem paying attention, or short attention span
Mood: anger, anxiety, boredom, excitement, or mood swings
Also common: depression or learning disability


I am not saying what he has done is acceptable . It is not and some of the commentary around him not doing much wrong is crap.
All I am saying is I have met him a couple of times . Also know it is a fact he does have ADHD.
Have also seen it in my wife's nephew .

 

[Albertross]

De Goey has taken personal leave from the club.

https://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/jordan-de-goey-taking-personal-leave-from-collingwood-after-bali-scandal/news-story/27c7d28c6d30895f44be6568fabcd054

 

[Mr Mojo Risin]

Have a close relative with ADHD . Really nice young bloke but can be easily lead and find a bit of strife if he drinks.
Lets face it every time JDG has stuffed up it has been alcohol related.
Not condoning his behavior and would not want him at Essendon but I would say do not judge if you are not in the loop.
For all his stuff ups he has done a lot of charity work with kids which is where I crossed paths with him . You would not know he was the same bloke who can be such a tool when he is on a bender.

I have several people close to me with ADHD, so I am very familiar with it. Having ADHD or other mental illnesses doesn't not preclude you from being a great person or a dickhead. I have no problem with explaining behaviour, I have several issues with the way a mental illness is used to excuse behaviour when it suits.

 

[ant555]

I have several people close to me with ADHD, so I am very familiar with it.

Then you would know what goes on. He has to own it but we are talking about a bloke in his twenties with plenty of coin and time on his hands who is prone to making poor decisions and not thinking about the consequences.

 

[HirdyLannister]

De Goey has taken personal leave from the club.

https://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/jordan-de-goey-taking-personal-leave-from-collingwood-after-bali-scandal/news-story/27c7d28c6d30895f44be6568fabcd054

Not surprising, will play the mental health card instead of owning upto his behaviour.

At the end of the day JDG is a sex pest

 

[Mr Mojo Risin]

Then you would know what goes on. He has to own it but we are talking about a bloke in his twenties with plenty of coin and time on his hands who is prone to making poor decisions and not thinking about the consequences.

I have no issues with him partying it up to his hearts content, as long as he's not hurting anyone else FWIW. There are several management and medication options for ADHD that can make life a lot easier and he has access to far more support than most and far more money to get help.

JDG is using ADHD to excuse his poor behaviour which I have an issue with.

 

[Lore]

He was doing charity work well before his USA. Best you do not just make a guess here. He has been doing work for a charity that I have a personal connection to for just over 4 years now.

I think my main concern with the charity work is that a lot of people are using it to excuse his behaviour, which would be laughably funny if they weren’t dead serious given the example they are mostly using is not voluntary (salvo's part-time working with the homeless = part of the NY plea bargain).

You can do charity work and have a persistent problem with poor behaviour that you are determinedly failing to address, it’s not mutually exclusive.

I suppose the voluntary charity work that you’re talking about (if that’s what it is, but I won’t argue) is more relevant if you’re trying to make an argument that we should recruit him at Essendon, that everyone loves him and it would be good for culture though. I wouldn’t necessarily agree with the conclusion, but at least the premise is sound.

And no ADHD does not make you grope people. Getting drunk and making bad decisions make you grope people. Violence is associated with people who have ADHD along with not thinking about consequences and difficulty resisting temptation. Violence is also a factor with drinking.


People may experience:
Behavioral: aggression, excitability, fidgeting, hyperactivity, impulsivity, irritability, lack of restraint, or persistent repetition of words or actions
Cognitive: absent-mindedness, difficulty focusing, forgetfulness, problem paying attention, or short attention span
Mood: anger, anxiety, boredom, excitement, or mood swings
Also common: depression or learning disability


I am not saying what he has done is acceptable . It is not and some of the commentary around him not doing much wrong is crap.
All I am saying is I have met him a couple of times . Also know it is a fact he does have ADHD.
Have also seen it in my wife's nephew .

This is not the first time I’ve come across ADHD

 

[Mercurial89]

I have no issues with him partying it up to his hearts content, as long as he's not hurting anyone else FWIW. There are several management and medication options for ADHD that can make life a lot easier and he has access to far more support than most and far more money to get help.

JDG is using ADHD to excuse his poor behaviour which I have an issue with.

This card has been played one too many times in the AFL industry.

 

[ScrappyCoCo]

I have some sympathy for him being a Dad that has raised a young adult that has a bad case of ADHD. Of course certain lines can't be crossed and they have to be responsible for serious mistakes...no excuses for the sex stuff, getting into crime etc. but they will make more mistakes than us and not really learn from them. I am positive his growing up would have been very difficult and complex. A lot more so than most Journos and people commentating on him have any idea. Only his parents, docs and Jordan would know what he has been through. It's pretty hard for these kids to be forced to fit into a system that naturally they cannot cope in, without changing the chemistry of their brains (and if they go on this path there can be terrible side effects, so in some cases you are dammed if you do or don't). And some medications do not work all day...so they spend chunks of school hours not being able top get any thoughts from their brains...through a pen onto a piece of paper. It gets all jumbled up and frustrates them. They tend to gravitate to kids that are not very smart and trouble starts from there. A lot of behaviours are formed in these growing years.

For people that don't know...a chemical in their brain is lower than "normal" peoples level and the meds raise it to the right level and only then can they do what we can. If I took it it would raise mine to an abnormally high level and I would be off my head...I think it's speed. Some side affects are...nervousness, insomnia, anorexia, loss of appetite, pulse changes, heart problems and weight loss. It is a very hard decision to put a young kid on them...we did and it made mine very sick so we had to stop after about 6 months. His year 2 work is better quality (when he was on it) than his year 10 work when he finished school. It's Farked for them and heartbreaking for parents. Most families don't make it in tact. It damages the whole family unit when it is bad. As sad as it is I spent his school years feeling like I can't wait for school to be over and done with and he gets a job and gets away from this...the best years of our lives for many of us.

I remember reading a paper from some professor that had a theory that ADHD has been around forever and been very important in shaping communities in that they were risk takers and we learned a lot about what we can and cant do because they are the ones that try things that "normal" people wouldn't. Like a island community might learn that the cant swim beyond their reef because of sharks. An ADHD person was the one that swam out further than everyone else and found out the hard way. From my observations of my kid I would agree with it totally.

 

[tandino]

This card has been played one too many times in the AFL industry.

I think you have to take it on face value, but if he can't manage his mental health then unfortunately for him he's going to face an abridged career, despite any inherent goodwill.

 

[BrunoV]

De Geoy's ADHD diagnosis was made in the last 12 months.

Have a look at the symptoms and characteristics:

What is ADHD?

ADHD is one of the most common neurodevelopmental disorders of childhood. It is usually first diagnosed in childhood and often lasts into adulthood.

www.cdc.gov

It's indistinguishable from being competitive and from being pissed.

Of course someone is going to be different once you give them the drugs to treat it. They're extremely strong. There is a culture of their use among writers and students in the USA to get assignments, books, tasks done.

 

[BrunoV]

Whilst I agree his excuse re: ADHD was a poor one.
Are you saying that ADHD is not real/over diagnosed?
Interested in your argument.

That a guy with all of the resources available to him, he went to school at St Kevins, and has then played 8 years of AFL, could slip through the cracks of an ADHD diagnosis which was not made until his mid 20s strains any credibility.

Thats not to say someone wouldn't diagnose him, psychology/medicine has mastered the art of ascribing medical diagnoses to the human condition.

ADHD is wildly over diagnosed. That's why I posted the link to the CDC page above. To give examples of the sorts of things supposely serious people consider to be a medical condition.

I wouldn't accept an ADHD diagnosis without 3 opinions, and I'd need to find a pro who is extremely conservative in making any diagnosis.

The almost mania, I don't mean be disparaging, that is associated with the condition that requires treatment is so obvious.

Being a dickhead on the piss every now and making the occasional bad decison doesnt get close. He's a very highly functioning person.

 

[Lore]

It’s hard to pick key quotes from this article it’s pretty much all relevant.

But basically the AFL went from in-person education on respect and gender, consent, social media use etc. to an online training thing where every player has to get 100% and they do it in their own time, supposedly because that way they could ensure every player completed it.

However, in 2018, the training shifted to an online module, which the league said was to ensure all players completed it. The training has six components covering the policy itself, gender inequality, consent, violence against women, how to make a complaint, appropriate social media use and a case study on inappropriate conduct in a public space and on social media.

“This training module is one of five modules to be completed, including a race and vilification module. Any score under 100 per cent requires a retake.”

Catherine Lumby was an advisor on this sort of stuff for the NRL. She had a bunch of large surveys from the NRL cohort asking them what kinds of things the players wanted to know more about etc. This bit is quite poignant:

While the majority of players entering elite sporting systems know certain behaviours are wrong or illegal, Lumby said they may not be entirely clear around issues of consent. For example, how one would negotiate sexual consent and what happens when alcohol is involved.

“If I look at the NRL guys I’ve worked with over the years – and a lot of them are fabulous guys – what was really clear was that most of them wanted to do the right thing. They actively wanted to do the right thing. But sometimes they just didn’t know what the right thing was.

“And I don’t mean something as obvious as, ‘don’t rape people’, but knowing what active consent looks like.”

And then some more from Lumby about the effectiveness of different approaches to training and why it’s important:

Lumby, who did not comment on the AFL training because she was not familiar with it, said the education must be delivered by people young men could relate to, such as ex-players.

“These aren’t just ordinary young men and, therefore, I think it’s incumbent on the sports they play for to give them really good evidence-based education that works so that they’ve got an opportunity to really consider the consequences of their behaviour on others,” she said.

“In the case of the NRL, I did three large research projects working with a team where we talked to over 200 players. We got surveys, we got really honest stuff from the guys – and that included how they use social media – and then we had really interactive education scenarios.”

Lumby used real-life scenarios based on situations players might find themselves in, such as someone videoing them in a club or being approached by intoxicated women during a night out. “And getting the guys got to work through, when does a good night out become a bad night out for everyone involved.”

“Because as it unfolds, there are opportunities to prevent things going wrong.”

Also lol:

But Lumby said some sportspeople were “education-proof”.

“My phrase was always, ‘If you’ve been given a lot of opportunity to get it and you still won’t get it, you’re education-proof. So get out because there’s a lot of young men in the queue who want the opportunity and privilege [of] playing an elite sport.’”

AFL dropped in-person training on respect for women

As the Jordan De Goey fallout continues, The Age has learnt that the AFL no longer provides face-to-face education for players on the league’s respect and responsibility policy.

www.theage.com.au

Basically a lot of it is obvious to most people including new players, but affirmative consent and how to avoid creating a scandal with yourself at the middle of it because of how you use social media seem pretty crucial things that they need and want to know.

I also found the social media policy the other day and interestingly it includes communication via SMS… so basically all digital communications including private ones are part of this sort of education. Which then reminds me of Jonathon Patton

25

Jonathon Patton

Age

31

Ht

198cm

Wt

102kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.1

3star

K

7.7

3star

HB

4.3

3star

M

5.5

5star

T

1.9

4star

G

1.7

5star

D

5.3

1star

K

3.8

1star

HB

1.5

1star

M

2.3

2star

T

0.5

1star

G

0.8

4star

D

9.8

3star

K

7.6

3star

HB

2.2

2star

M

5.4

5star

T

2.2

4star

G

2.2

5star

.

 

[joey_jo_jo]

Legit thought Hamish dropped the c-bomb on live television just then. I rewound and realised he said "up to the task hunt" with a VERY soft H

 

[ScrappyCoCo]

great pressure at every contest

 

[Yoda_]

Not surprising, will play the mental health card instead of owning upto his behaviour.

At the end of the day JDG is a sex pest

I don't wish to bemoan the "mental health card" but when does that excuse someone for being a dick head?

Australian cricket team has a full time sports physchologist that helps both on and off field. AFLPA would have something like this one would think? These professionals have now twice (Bailey Smith and JDG) played the 'mental health' (unphysical) ailment, convenient? I think not.. If these people were in such dire straights then perhaps they can just say "yep, been seeing a professional for x amount of time" instead of the what I say is happening.

Something just doesn't sit right with regards to the mental health card. It's all to convenient for me

 

[joey_jo_jo]

Harmes really put the clamps on neale that qtr, good come back after neale was dominating the clearances early in the first.

 

[windyhill]

Absolutely swarming them Melbourne.

 

[Schnitzengruben]

Legit thought Hamish dropped the c-bomb on live television just then. I rewound and realised he said "up to the task hunt" with a VERY soft H

This is still the GOAT of C bombs!

 

[BrunoV]

It's a bit of an artificial assessment but I think you can make a case Brisbane hasn't had a decent win all year.

Feels like the Swans and Pies wins were good timing.

St Kilda are probably as overrated as Brisbane are.

 

[Lore]

 

[andleanback]

Lions are pretenders. Thanks for Archie xx

 

[citizen-erased]

brisbane