Oppo Camp Non-Essendon Football Thread XVI

Remove this Banner Ad

Status
Not open for further replies.
owen87 said:
oi guys lets move the game with two Adelaide teams to marvel stadium.

Great idea Barrett. No wonder they're paying you for your opinions on things.
Click to expand...
haha. Whilst Barrett is a weasel, what would be interesting is if they do Gather Round in Melb down the track (will need to have done it everywhere else first), why not have a third Showdown that year and put it at the G on a Friday night. Would be interesting to see what crowd they get. NRL often does 1 of their 3 State of Origin matches outside of NSW and QLD, Ess did Dreamtime successfully in other states twice, albeit because of COVID. the SA vs Vic State of Origin was held in SA for an eternity before finally playing it at the G around 1989 or so. It's not the dumbest idea Barrett has had (low bar) but not sure it works outside of Gather Round (gosh i hate that name).
 

Log in to remove this ad.

Online video emerges to rock Collingwood with best-and-fairest winner Jack Crisp involved
The AFL club is aware a video of the star midfielder is circulating.


Multiple sources alledge snaps of white powder, semi to full nudes and to be blunt trying to get a three-some happening.
 
frodos gardener said:
It may be dumb but it’s also harmless. I guess I value the human side of showing emotion within reason so long as it’s not hurtful. I don’t think pointing at the screen and saying “look I handballed it” is a big deal
Click to expand...
Whats the ump supposed to do though.
Maybe VAR style for anything inside 50?
 
rumply said:


Common Sense Monkey GIF by Travis
Click to expand...

Tough one this
One hand, that we're commenting gets damo what he wants
But on the other, damo needs to be told the stfu with his stupid ideas. So....i dunno what we do?
Can we fire him into the sun?
 
Ati Tude said:
haha. Whilst Barrett is a weasel, what would be interesting is if they do Gather Round in Melb down the track (will need to have done it everywhere else first), why not have a third Showdown that year and put it at the G on a Friday night. Would be interesting to see what crowd they get. NRL often does 1 of their 3 State of Origin matches outside of NSW and QLD, Ess did Dreamtime successfully in other states twice, albeit because of COVID. the SA vs Vic State of Origin was held in SA for an eternity before finally playing it at the G around 1989 or so. It's not the dumbest idea Barrett has had (low bar) but not sure it works outside of Gather Round (gosh i hate that name).
Click to expand...
Sweet FA i imagine
I dont know about the derby, but the showdown is a true local event. I make a point when im in town for it to remain neutral (and try not to mention im from vic :p)

Take away the crowd and i reckon the game loses meaning to the players and becomes another 4pt encounter

If gather ever comes to vic, the non vic sides should all get a game at the G.
 
citizen-erased said:
Tough one this
One hand, that we're commenting gets damo what he wants
But on the other, damo needs to be told the stfu with his stupid ideas. So....i dunno what we do?
Can we fire him into the sun?
Click to expand...
Community Ill Allow It GIF
 
frodos gardener said:
I don’t like the dissent rule much at all. I feel like it should be limited to swearing, bullying and name calling only. As much as an umpire will never change their mind about a particular decision, it doesn’t mean players shouldn’t be able to express themselves. It’s like saying don’t argue with your Mum because she won’t change her mind; you still do it because it’s important to have your say at least once (no mummy issues here, just an analogy). Saying someone can’t show frustration is akin to stating that what they have to say isn’t important.

IMO the following is okay:
  • yelling “what?!”
  • arms outstretched in exasperation
  • pointing at the screen
I don’t care what anyone says; no umpire left the game for these three things alone. They leave for substantial abuse from players and spectators at local level.

Not okay:
  • swearing
  • name calling
  • bullying through constant complaining (“stop yelling at me Devon”)
Click to expand...
Have spoken to people who have given away umpiring at the lower level and they all say it is the build up of dissent and abuse over time . The dissent is not an issue at the top level for umpires. It is how it effects the levels further down.
Are you going to sign up to umpire an under 14 game if every decision you make is questioned by the players week in and week out because the kids see and hear it on the TV ? That is the issue. It is the constant build up of things at the minor end that erodes the confidence of young umpires. This is before you add in the abuse side of things .
In your job are you going to take a random work mate questioning each decision you make ? How long before it wears a bit thin ? Would the players be fine with the umpires questioning every time the turned the footy over ?
Plus the fact most of the players do not have a total grasp of the rules .
I watched Jack Riewoldt asking the ump what a free was for a couple of weeks ago and he had a clear handful of jumper.
It is easy . Do not do it.
 
Did I hear correctly on the radio this morning that Jack Crisp hasn't missed a game since 2015?
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

owen87 said:
Yep, think it's somewhere in the 190s consecutive games
Click to expand...
191. Only 5 players have gotten to 200+ in Stynes, Yze, Goodes, Titus and Kirk
 
jmoo wan said:
the gather round is stupid.
Click to expand...

We've never done it before!! How do you know?

I'd like to see it move from place to place and coincide with the indigenous round. A gathering of different Indigenous nations in one place where they celebrate the culture of all the nations in the region where it is held. At the centre of the gathering is the one great love of so many indigenous people, and a game that was created by Tom Wills with a huge influence from the Aboriginal peoples in Western Victoria.
 
naraku said:
Online video emerges to rock Collingwood with best-and-fairest winner Jack Crisp involved
The AFL club is aware a video of the star midfielder is circulating.


Multiple sources alledge snaps of white powder, semi to full nudes and to be blunt trying to get a three-some happening.
Click to expand...
yeah a buddy sent me that, it's uh... not good, i think. hopefully something comes of it and he gets punished, but i feel like that's unlikely
 
ant555 said:
Have spoken to people who have given away umpiring at the lower level and they all say it is the build up of dissent and abuse over time . The dissent is not an issue at the top level for umpires. It is how it effects the levels further down.
Are you going to sign up to umpire an under 14 game if every decision you make is questioned by the players week in and week out because the kids see and hear it on the TV ? That is the issue. It is the constant build up of things at the minor end that erodes the confidence of young umpires. This is before you add in the abuse side of things .
In your job are you going to take a random work mate questioning each decision you make ? How long before it wears a bit thin ? Would the players be fine with the umpires questioning every time the turned the footy over ?
Plus the fact most of the players do not have a total grasp of the rules .
I watched Jack Riewoldt asking the ump what a free was for a couple of weeks ago and he had a clear handful of jumper.
It is easy . Do not do it.
Click to expand...

I think it’s easy to sort of wash the issues together but I would want to really scrutinise the feedback from the perspective of mild complaining vs. abuse. I’m sure under a close look it would be the vitriol that tips umpires over the edge. I do think the two “types” can be separated and treated differently.

As an example in a different industry, I worked weekends running craft and farmers markets for a while. You’d always cop attitude and whinging from stallholders and the public but at the low level it was tolerable and you’d brush it off knowing most people were happy with what you were doing. It was the buildup of the major incidents over time that caused me to throw it in, especially as I didn’t need the income and just did it originally for something different. I know not everyone is the same but I just can’t fathom people of a regular constitution giving up on umpiring because Johny the forward pocket kept throwing his arms out in frustration.

Of the 6% who have left the trade due to abuse, how many were sworn at and threatened? I’d speculate nearly all.
 
frodos gardener said:
I think it’s easy to sort of wash the issues together but I would want to really scrutinise the feedback from the perspective of mild complaining vs. abuse. I’m sure under a close look it would be the vitriol that tips umpires over the edge. I do think the two “types” can be separated and treated differently.

As an example in a different industry, I worked weekends running craft and farmers markets for a while. You’d always cop attitude and whinging from stallholders and the public but at the low level it was tolerable and you’d brush it off knowing most people were happy with what you were doing. It was the buildup of the major incidents over time that caused me to throw it in, especially as I didn’t need the income and just did it originally for something different. I know not everyone is the same but I just can’t fathom people of a regular constitution giving up on umpiring because Johny the forward pocket kept throwing his arms out in frustration.

Of the 6% who have left the trade due to abuse, how many were sworn at and threatened? I’d speculate nearly all.

Players aren’t robots.
Click to expand...
No players are not robots but they can easily stand the mark and shake their head and grumble under their breath and not give away a free kick. They do not have to have a running commentary. It is called discipline. The manage to do it in League and Union well enough. Just shut your trap and get on with the game. Not like an umpire has ever reversed his decision after a player questioned it. they can also talk to the umpires like Redman did on the Hawks game after he gave away the 50 in the stand rule.

A friend of mine has sponsored the umpires in one of the Melbourne footy leagues for a good number of years through his business . I have been to a number of the functions and spoken to a lot of the people out their doing the umpiring and their biggest bug bear is players questioning every decision. These are the umpires I am talking to. Go out and talk to a group of them and you will find the answers. You say you can not fathom people with a regular constitution giving up because someone throw their arms about. It is not about the one incident. It is about the perception that the umpire can simply be questioned non stop and be subject to various levels of dissent to abuse. The problem is there is just a total lack of respect for the umpire and pretty much all of them out there doing their stuff on the weekend do so because they love footy. It is the build up of the continual acts and the fact that as a society we feel it is our right to just tee off on the umpires. This is despite the fact they do not make a lot of errors compared to the player errors in games and the fact that nearly all supporters are bias towards their own side when it comes to decisions and a good number do not really know the rules anyway.

If it is not a big deal why is their a shortage of umpires ? ask young footy followers why they would not consider umpiring . It is about changing a culture of general disrespect towards umpires. It is about attracting people to become umpires . The number 1 reason people do not want to be umpires is they do not want the abuse. It has nothing to do with the 6% from the survey of some (not close to all) ex umpires on why they left. It is about the fact that these guys are not being replaced because being an umpire is not desirable.

I would also recommend listening to Ray Chamberlain . Not because he is actually good at providing a good explanation of how they interoperate rules but more about the fact that he umpires because he loves footy and it is a genuine love. The perception that he is driven by a big ego and wants to be a factor is totally opposite to how he is. Umpire love footy. He admits he gets decisions wrong .The do actually get a great percentage of decisions right. Ray mentioned the other day when asked what the difference between the back end of last year and now is and he stated that the players had started to take a few more liberties and stretch the boundaries of where they where at.

I have umpired the odd junior game as a fill in. It is bloody hard. You do not have a game without an umpire. We need to start providing a bit more respect.
At the very least players can work a bit on their discipline. Hold the frustration in Just shake the head. Do not engage the umpire in the heat of the moment. There will always be the odd break down in frustration but if it is only the odd one then it is not a pattern of behavior .
 
ant555 said:
No players are not robots but they can easily stand the mark and shake their head and grumble under their breath and not give away a free kick. They do not have to have a running commentary. It is called discipline. The manage to do it in League and Union well enough. Just shut your trap and get on with the game. Not like an umpire has ever reversed his decision after a player questioned it. they can also talk to the umpires like Redman did on the Hawks game after he gave away the 50 in the stand rule.

A friend of mine has sponsored the umpires in one of the Melbourne footy leagues for a good number of years through his business . I have been to a number of the functions and spoken to a lot of the people out their doing the umpiring and their biggest bug bear is players questioning every decision. These are the umpires I am talking to. Go out and talk to a group of them and you will find the answers. You say you can not fathom people with a regular constitution giving up because someone throw their arms about. It is not about the one incident. It is about the perception that the umpire can simply be questioned non stop and be subject to various levels of dissent to abuse. The problem is there is just a total lack of respect for the umpire and pretty much all of them out there doing their stuff on the weekend do so because they love footy. It is the build up of the continual acts and the fact that as a society we feel it is our right to just tee off on the umpires. This is despite the fact they do not make a lot of errors compared to the player errors in games and the fact that nearly all supporters are bias towards their own side when it comes to decisions and a good number do not really know the rules anyway.

If it is not a big deal why is their a shortage of umpires ? ask young footy followers why they would not consider umpiring . It is about changing a culture of general disrespect towards umpires. It is about attracting people to become umpires . The number 1 reason people do not want to be umpires is they do not want the abuse. It has nothing to do with the 6% from the survey of some (not close to all) ex umpires on why they left. It is about the fact that these guys are not being replaced because being an umpire is not desirable.

I would also recommend listening to Ray Chamberlain . Not because he is actually good at providing a good explanation of how they interoperate rules but more about the fact that he umpires because he loves footy and it is a genuine love. The perception that he is driven by a big ego and wants to be a factor is totally opposite to how he is. Umpire love footy. He admits he gets decisions wrong .The do actually get a great percentage of decisions right. Ray mentioned the other day when asked what the difference between the back end of last year and now is and he stated that the players had started to take a few more liberties and stretch the boundaries of where they where at.

I have umpired the odd junior game as a fill in. It is bloody hard. You do not have a game without an umpire. We need to start providing a bit more respect.
At the very least players can work a bit on their discipline. Hold the frustration in Just shake the head. Do not engage the umpire in the heat of the moment. There will always be the odd break down in frustration but if it is only the odd one then it is not a pattern of behavior .
Click to expand...

If I get the chance to ask some umpires, I definitely will. For me it’s about really questioning and challenging the reasons they give it up.

FWIW I generally like Ray and i think about half the umps at AFL level are up to the job. He is one of them. The rest are either still developing or just aren’t right for the job.

I would be paying umpires more at the professional level and making at least some of the workforce there full-time.

You’d be amazed what some people will be okay with if there’s a career incentive down the track. You’ve got to ask the question of the people who don’t take it up ever (most of us), why?
  • don’t want to give up time on weeknights and weekends
  • don’t need the cash
  • are fulfilled on a social level elswhere
  • aren’t motivated by the fitness benefits
  • don’t identify on a personality level with umpiring people
  • aren’t motivated by the idea of being in control and having a level of authority
  • don’t want to cop abuse

So even if you take the last one away (and stay strict on dissent), how are we going to get others who have no desire to umpire actually give it a go?

There has to be a more attractive career in the gig. It will never be cool 😎 but it can certainly be taken seriously as an occupation or something to work towards.

And yes I know how much the top umps make.
 
frodos gardener said:
If I get the chance to ask some umpires, I definitely will. For me it’s about really questioning and challenging the reasons they give it up.

FWIW I generally like Ray and i think about half the umps at AFL level are up to the job. He is one of them. The rest are either still developing or just aren’t right for the job.

I would be paying umpires more at the professional level and making at least some of the workforce there full-time.

You’d be amazed what some people will be okay with if there’s a career incentive down the track. You’ve got to ask the question of the people who don’t take it up ever (most of us), why?
  • don’t want to give up time on weeknights and weekends
  • don’t need the cash
  • are fulfilled on a social level elswhere
  • aren’t motivated by the fitness benefits
  • don’t identify on a personality level with umpiring people
  • aren’t motivated by the idea of being in control and having a level of authority
  • don’t want to cop abuse

So even if you take the last one away (and stay strict on dissent), how are we going to get others who have no desire to umpire actually give it a go?

There has to be a more attractive career in the gig. It will never be cool 😎 but it can certainly be taken seriously as an occupation or something to work towards.

And yes I know how much the top umps make.
Click to expand...
The biggest issue is not why they give it away. The issue is finding young umpires to replace them. Why is becoming an umpire so bad that a very limited number would even consider . I can tell you now in my experience it is the last point on your list. It is also not about most of society but more about why people who like footy will not even consider taking it up.
Also not talking about career paths here. There will always be enough umpires at the top level ( AFL , VFL, Div 1 footy). It is about winning over those who have an interest in footy and a love for footy but will not consider being an umpire. It is about 4th div reserves having 2 umpires so those who are running around having a kick for fun have a decent game.

My personal experience as far as talking to a range of people over the years about this is that it is basically why would you put yourself out there when the general opinion is you are a maggot.

I really do not see why it is a big deal for players to show some more respect to the umps.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Remove this Banner Ad

Similar threads

Lore
Oppo Camp Non-Essendon Football Thread XVII
355 356 357 358 359
Replies
9K
Views
305K
ant555
ant555
Old Campaigner
Training Official Essendon Preseason Thread
5 6 7 8 9
Replies
202
Views
18K
dank420_
dank420_
Lore
  • Locked
Win Prizes The Scales 2024 Essendon Board Poster Of The Year - Nomination Thread
Replies
18
Views
897
Lore
Lore
Nuggs Bunny
Competitions 2025 Essendon Board My Boy Draft
2
Replies
28
Views
583
Dave
Dave
RedmanWasHere
AFLW Player #?? Sophie Strong - Welcome to Essendon
Replies
2
Views
234
CrowdedHouse
CrowdedHouse
RedmanWasHere
AFLW Player #?? Taya Chambers - Welcome to Essendon
Replies
2
Views
237
CrowdedHouse
CrowdedHouse
RedmanWasHere
AFLW Player #?? Holly Ridewood - Welcome to Essendon
Replies
5
Views
428
ant555
ant555

Remove this Banner Ad

Back
Top