Oppo Camp Non-Essendon Football Thread XVI

[windyhill]

WTF is it with spectators booing JHF ? I can understand North supporters being a bit salty about it but the rest ?

It’s idiotic. Please don’t do it Bomber fans, not our fight.

 

[citizen-erased]

It’s idiotic. Please don’t do it Bomber fans, not our fight.

Also why would we side with north
Port may steal our players, but north is north. Wouldn't you leave too if you could

 

[citizen-erased]

WTF is it with spectators booing JHF ? I can understand North supporters being a bit salty about it but the rest ?

Was there and it was a little baffling.
Didnt seem like there was a massive roos contigent during our game, but they may have made it over at that point. It was too wet and windy to explore.

 

[Mercurial89]

It’s easier to set the match ups if they’re all return fixtures, you can put Carlton/Collingwood in there and then replay the same matchup at a different point in the season so there’s still an MCG game. I think they missed a trick there.

I do think it should rotate though. There’s no reason Perth shouldn’t host it on a rotation at the very least, they’re as footy mad as anywhere and have plenty of Essendon fans. Queensland did a great job with the hubs and the covid granny. Darwin did Dreamtime pretty well too. You can capture that spirit anywhere if you do it right (Qantas determined not to do it right but yknow).

If you want a national game and want to show off the game and get people interested and involved then it has to rotate or it’s not serving it’s purpose. And I kind of like the one-up-manship thing the state premiers have going as well trying to win hearts and minds through sporting interstate rivalries. It’s all to the good. Plus the more kids you get following the game now, the more potential players and cashed up fans you have later.

SA can always bid for other sporting events in the years they don’t have a Footy Festival round…

Part of me was almost going to suggest doing it a few times a year, but if it’s almost once a month it loses its charm pretty quick.

But you could probably do it twice a year, once early in the year as a community round, and once in round 25 as part of a wildcard round, perhaps team up with AFLW season launch on the second one (like interviewing players during the coverage, sending them out to kick with the kids and whatever as part of the whole weekend).

If Vic ever got to host it I’d want to send all the games to regional areas though.

Missed this.
I think having it in SA you get a lot of vics over there which is a big part of it.
WA would not get that as much and you also get flight gauging.

Nsw and qld you don't get the local support, and being only a weekend you don't get the strong exposure of players and clubs doing school stuff as much.

If I were running the AFL a rough plan would be as follows.

Gather round in SA for the next 3 years.
After that it goes to TAS as they enter the competition. For another 3 years.
After that you either go back to SA or you do a cycle between Tas and SA with a 1 year each.

Starting next year you do your practice matches in regional of two states.
So gather round light, two weeks all games are in regional areas of NSW, then the next two weeks is in QLD.
It rotates through the states each year. I'd start with the two non footy states as the purpose of this is to get extended stay of clubs and players through the school systems.
Doing it in the pre season allows clubs to put their off-season camps onto them if that was a path and it means that it removes the clutter from the regular season whilst still having a targeted approach to growing the game at the grassroots level.

Gather Round for the feel good celebration of football.
Preseason for the future talent pool aspect.

 

[Stopher]

Bucks just made a good point that a 19th team in Tassie would make Gather Round a bit awkward!

 

[citizen-erased]

MRP / Trib. - Caminiti hit on Murphy

When Gaff broke Brayshaw's jaw, he wasn't trying to hit him in the jaw. He did a reckless thing, that caused severe damage. Given suspensions are very, very rarely classed as 'Intentional', the AFL clearly acknowledges that it is almost always reckless acts that cause guys to get knocked out...

www.bigfooty.com

For those shocked when I called saints BF fans the worst, even over north fans

I rest my case

 

[Zach Package]

MRP / Trib. - Caminiti hit on Murphy

When Gaff broke Brayshaw's jaw, he wasn't trying to hit him in the jaw. He did a reckless thing, that caused severe damage. Given suspensions are very, very rarely classed as 'Intentional', the AFL clearly acknowledges that it is almost always reckless acts that cause guys to get knocked out...

www.bigfooty.com

For those shocked when I called saints BF fans the worst, even over north fans

I rest my case

Not sure they’re the worst, but they’re certainly the most brain damaged

 

[citizen-erased]

Not sure they’re the worst, but they’re certainly the most brain damaged

Absolute worst.

Chips on shoulders, persecution complexes, loser club, so much angry.

 

[Lore]

While neither party is yet doubting a middle ground will eventually be found, there are still several stumbling blocks which are likely to see discussions stretch out for several months.

Earlier in the year the AFL Players’ Association, which is pursuing a joint CBA which would see AFLW and AFL players share 32 percent of the game’s revenue, sent a proposal to the league.

In their pitch the Players’ Association argued for a four-year CBA. But in the AFL’s formal response less than a fortnight ago, the league said its preference was for a nine-year CBA.

The AFL’s monster nine-year CBA request lines up with the $4.5 billion broadcast rights deal, which will roll over in 2025 and expire in 2031.

The league wants certainty in its finances and locking in a long-term arrangement with the Players’ Association would tick a fundamental box.

Conversely, AFLPA believes there is too much uncertainty associated with a deal stretching into the 2030s. With no clear answers or timeline on Tasmania and no AFL commitment to a fully-fledged AFLW fixture, the players’ union – which has been led by Paul Marsh since 2014 – will baulk at the ambitious proposal.

Player agents have told SEN.com.au the AFLPA is seeking a substantial “bounce” in the first year of the next CBA and steady growth in the years following.

The AFLPA pushing for a greater share of the AFL’s annual $643 million injection of broadcast cash is the major battle ground in negotiations.

Though in early discussions it has become apparent there are other areas the AFL and AFLPA will need to find common ground on too. These include how the industry looks after its (past and present) players from a health and safety perspective, as well as its commitment to issues of race and gender.

On race and gender, one high level club source said that while the industry generates great revenue, it is not so adept at looking after its people.

This is where the AFLPA is aiming to formalise ways to protect its player cohort on key societal issues.

THE AFLW DISCUSSION

The AFL and AFL Players' Association don't disagree on everything. They broadly share the view that AFLW players deserve a pay rise, but they disagree on the percentage increase and where the money should come from.

The league believes men should sacrifice a portion of their salary to support the female game, while the AFLPA does not believe it’s appropriate for male employees to take a cut for female employees.

Men subsidising women is a prospect the AFLPA won’t entertain and this view is supported by both AFL and AFLW players.

Instead, their solution is to increase the slice of the pie to 32 per cent, up from 28 percent for the male players only.

If the AFL accepts the AFLPA’s option, AFLW players would be paid 12 months of the year instead of nine as soon as 2024 and by 2026 every female player would receive a full-time salary with a minimum wage rising to $70,000.

Currently the average AFLW player wage is $55,000 and the minimum wage is $40,000. All players are on nine-month playing contracts and have just been paid again after three months without any income from football.

The short-term deal which allowed the AFLW season to begin last August resulted in a 94 percent pay rise on average across the competition.

Despite this, it has become a not-so-quiet source of frustration among AFLW players that they are expected to train and treat their bodies like elite athletes all year round but only get paid for nine months and play as few as 10 home and away games per season.

One of the key objectives of the AFL’s Women’s Football Vision from late 2021 was to have AFLW players become the highest paid domestic athletes in Australia by 2030.

But following Cricket Australia’s landmark agreement with their players’ union just weeks ago, minimum wage for domestic female cricketers has climbed to $100,000 per year, leaving the AFL well behind in their stated pursuit.

THE COVID CLAUSE

In 2020 players lost 30 percent of their salaries as Covid-19 wreaked havoc on the league, its clubs, and the competition.

By 2021, the league was eager for players to take a substantial pay cut again. Ultimately an agreement was reached for a collective reduction of approximately 9 per cent that flowed through to around 3.5 per cent for individual players, with lists cut to minimise the financial burden.

As the competition came out of the pandemic, the industry generated in excess of $100 million in revenues above forecast and male players received $30 million as part of their revenue share deal. Still, players were left significantly worse off following 2020.

One of the proposals the union has put forward essentially asks future players to pay back past players from 2020.

Under the agreement, every listed player in 2020 would receive 25 percent of the money they lost back by the end of the next CBA. This will see roughly $20 million paid back to footballers from 2020. This would come from the players’ share of revenue, rather than be an additional ask from the AFL.

For example, If a player lost $100,000 in 2020, they would receive $25,000 back whenever the CBA concludes (at the latest).

AFLPA president Patrick Dangerfield discussed the 'Covid clause' late last year.

“Off the back of Covid, this next renegotiation of the CBA, I think it’d be appropriate to reward everyone within the game who has given up a huge amount of the past two years the same level of KPI increase, regardless of what the next CBA increase is,” Dangerfield said on The Field with JJ and Danger podcast.

“So, if it’s seven per cent, rather than just the best players who have had the ability to put that in the contract, I think that should be all 850 players who have contributed to the game and growing it and keeping it going at a time that was really difficult for the league.”

There is also a view among player managers that the predicted “bounce” in the first year of the next CBA is partly to thank veteran players who took pay cuts in Covid but won’t be around long enough to reap the full benefits of the new deal.

While there is no immediate rush to get the CBA done, it's been noted among managers and club officials that the men's and women's deals expired last October and have simply rolled over to 2023.

"We did, I think, a landmark female players deal last year," AFL CEO Gillon McLachlan said in December.

"I know Paul (Marsh) has talked about an integrated CBA going forward so there is an opportunity to do that. The way they're going to line up and how that fits in and how they might do that is something that still needs to be discussed. We will see where we land."

AFL and Players' Union at odds on new pay deal

Exclusive report from Tom Morris.

www.sen.com.au

 

[BrunoV]

The men should take a pay cut for the pay increase the women deserve?

This is the sort of stupid shit people come up with when they are not serious.

 

[Old man fletch]

The men should take a pay cut for the pay increase the women deserve?

This is the sort of stupid s**t people come up with when they are not serious.

Why is it stupid?

There's a finite amount of money available. Not saying the AFL is crying poor, but the money they have allocated to themselves in any given CBA goes to certain activities (Auskick, indigenous programs, supporting the league's investigative group that totally doesn't try to cover up and media manage any potential black eye that's on the horizon). Less money for the AFL means there's less money for new things (Tassie team), or it comes out of things that are important, like supporting community footy

It's easy to say just give them more money but that's not how a negotiation works. I suspect the outcome will be no haircut for the men's salaries, but less of an increase than they're asking for. Also about public perception. Makes it easier for the AFL to drive public opinion if the AFLPA are advocating for an increase in AFLW wages but the men want more as well when some players are already on 7 figures.

 

[Zach Package]

I know North won’t be unhappy given they have eventually turned JHF into Wardlaw, another first and other bits and pieces but this is a sliding doors moment that will effect the entire comp for a decade.

 

[RedmanWasHere]

So:

Dawson.
Rachele.
Rankine.
Horne.
Warlord.
Humphrey.

And perhaps Sheezel.

 

[ant555]

Good to hear Bruno on SEN not talking about us but his other hobby horse

 

[jannissary]

So:

Dawson.
Rachele.
Rankine.
Horne.
Warlord.
Humphrey.

And perhaps Sheezel.

think it’s unlikely that sheezal would leave unless big moneys at play (which it’ll no doubt be)

 

[windyhill]

think it’s unlikely that sheezal would leave unless big moneys at play (which it’ll no doubt be)

Shezzel just re-signed for a further two.

 

[ghostdog]

Based on the 7 pies players going nuts at the umpires, the 'dissent' rule has a mile of lee-way when it needs to...

Yes! I thought that too. There's like a 600m penalty there!

 

[Call Me Cake]

think it’s unlikely that sheezal would leave unless big moneys at play (which it’ll no doubt be)

More of a chance of Wardlaw leaving to be with his best mate Tsatas than that.

Watch this space.

 

[Call Me Cake]

but the men want more as well when some players are already on 7 figures.

The men want more because what they're bringing in is becoming more. It's simple logic.

 

[Lore]

The AFLPA is advocating for a couple more percent of the pie to go to the players as a whole so that both cohorts can be paid properly.

Not sure why the AFL is trying to pit them against each other. Wonder what other plans they have for that 4% of the broadcast earnings that they don’t wanna cough up…

 

[Beerfish]

Wonder what other plans they have for that 4% of the broadcast earnings that they don’t wanna cough up…

 

[Old man fletch]

The men want more because what they're bringing in is becoming more. It's simple logic.

Yep. But the women want more money too. I haven't looked at the revenue streams, but I suspect AFLW isn't currently profitable (please correct me if I'm wrong on this). The AFL loves playing with optics. If it comes down to a fight in the media, the AFL can frame it that there's only so much money and if the men are supportive, they should support with more than just words. Not saying this is right or wrong, just thinking about what the AFL are likely to do

The AFLPA is advocating for a couple more percent of the pie to go to the players as a whole so that both cohorts can be paid properly.

Not sure why the AFL is trying to pit them against each other. Wonder what other plans they have for that 4% of the broadcast earnings that they don’t wanna cough up…

Don't disagree with you Lore. Having said that, it's easier for fans to agree with something than it is for all the people involved when the have KPIs to meet. Tassie expansion won't be cheap for a start, they'll need to pump money into development pathways for Tas which used to be a strong recruitment area for the AFL. Every extra dollar spent on player salary is a dollar less spent on something else.

 

[faible]

Don't forget that the AFL is a Not For Profit organisation, so whether the AFLW makes a profit or not is somewhat irrelevant.

If the AFLW adds value to the AFL Commission by helping it achieve it's stated goals, then the players deserve to be appropriately compensated regardless of whether the league is profitable. Appropriate compensation is based on a combination of paying players a sufficient amount for the time they're expected to spend being elite athletes, and a sufficient amount not to lose those players to other sports e.g. cricket.

https://resources.afl.com.au/afl/document/2019/11/15/e970874a-504d-421d-b6a1-471cc3a303ab/AFL-Corporate-Governance.pdf

The role of the Commission

To enable the ongoing prosperity of Australian Football, the Commission is committed to act in the best interests of the AFL to ensure it is properly governed and managed.

To achieve appropriate direction and control, the principal role of the Commission is to:

• Protect and enhance the interests of member clubs in the context of the AFL Memorandum and Articles of Association.
• Protect and enhance the interests of the game through national and international programs and the provision of grants to affiliated bodies to support Australian Football at all levels of the community.
• Review, add value to, approve and monitor the strategic direction and objectives.
• Review, approve and monitor the corporate plan linked to the strategic objectives.
• Appoint, delegate to, support, evaluate and reward the performance of the CEO and other executives.
• Support, review and monitor members clubs’ operational and financial performance.
• Oversee risk management and regulatory compliance.
• Monitor the integrity of financial reporting.
• Ensure ethical standards and appropriate behaviours are adhered to.
  Have transparent reporting

This is also worth a read, particularly 2b, 4,

Microsoft OneDrive

onedrive.live.com

 

[Chief Hopper]

I know North won’t be unhappy given they have eventually turned JHF into Wardlaw, another first and other bits and pieces but this is a sliding doors moment that will effect the entire comp for a decade.

To be fair on North, trading pick 1 hasn't been done for a long, long time. I think the last time was Hawks dong that awful deal for pick 1 with Fremantle for Croad, that ended up Hawks getting Croad back, as well as that pick 1.
And I think Adelaide has been bubbling for a while, so that 2022 1st round pick was theorised as potentially being a lot higher than 5.

Shezzel just re-signed for a further two.

North are playing at times some nice football under Clarko. Can already see that fast accurate handball game similar to what I saw at the Hawks when Clarko was there.
If that young North playing group can stick together, they should see the results come eventually.

 

[ghostdog]

More of a chance of Wardlaw leaving to be with his best mate Tsatas than that.

Watch this space.

Hobbs, Caldwell, Wardlaw, Tsatas, Durham, Martin.

Yikers. Yes please.