Oppo Camp Non-Essendon Football Thread XVII

[ant555]

They're playing offensive, fast football but their defence is still shithouse. I don't care what neutrals would say, we're still 2-3 years ahead of them.

Having been to watch them a few times live I am not so sure. Yes they have defensive issues and a forward line that is okay on small forwards but has nothing in the tall brigade but they play fast footy based on speed and foot skills and it works. The only way I see us staying in front of them is if we find two half backs with speed and skill and one of our rucks takes the next step. And there midfield is good.

 

[bombreys]

They're playing offensive, fast football but their defence is still shithouse. I don't care what neutrals would say, we're still 2-3 years ahead of them.

Wow. To each their own. I’m not sure we’re any better defensively.

 

[Zach Package]

They're playing offensive, fast football but their defence is still shithouse. I don't care what neutrals would say, we're still 2-3 years ahead of them.

They’ve conceded less points than us this year and I think they are number one for least points conceded over the last 6 weeks.

I think it’s pretty obvious they still lack top end talent but if this is still part of your schtick, it should at least be funny.

 

[ant555]

Wow. To each their own. I’m not sure we’re any better defensively.

I think we are better defensively and that is saying something but we have defended better in general . The difference is they use their speed and foot skills out of the back half and it works so they do not have to rely on the defensive structure as much.. They do get cut up a lot worse than us if they do not get hold of the footy. Their midfield is very good at winning the footy as well now that Day is back and a few others have lifted in form. That also helps.

 

[ant555]

They’ve conceded less points than us this year and I think they are number one for least points conceded over the last 6 weeks.

I think it’s pretty obvious they still lack top end talent but if this is still part of your schtick, it should at least be funny.

They do but as I have said that is not because their team defense is anything great. We are conceding points right now because we are giving away too many points on turnover . It has been 9 goals plus most weeks and that is an area you can not defend. What they are doing well is moving the footy quickly and breaking opposition zones and their midfield is the best ground ball combination in the league so they win the footy at ground level. When sides have got a run on them they have been cut up very easily.

 

[eth-dog]

Wow. To each their own. I’m not sure we’re any better defensively.

We're much better defensively.

 

[Phone]

West coast have also been horrible today. Shown zero effort or intent. They actually decided to show up and play against us.

weird how all the terrible teams that we end up still in a contest with deep into the second half keep on showing up against us

 

[Milanista28]

I don't know how to explain it but we have a severe mental block when he comes to taking the next step, I don't think Hawthorne has that issue, they turn their talent into killers, we don't.

Have they gone past us? I don't know, plenty gets said about their defense being shit on paper, is it worse than our forward line?

 

[bombreys]

I think we are better defensively and that is saying something but we have defended better in general . The difference is they use their speed and foot skills out of the back half and it works so they do not have to rely on the defensive structure as much.. They do get cut up a lot worse than us if they do not get hold of the footy. Their midfield is very good at winning the footy as well now that Day is back and a few others have lifted in form. That also helps.

Yeah I probably agree, I think we’ve been better this year. I do think we’re ahead of them - but not by 2-3 years. I think we set up fairly similar to them defensively, they just play on and attack at seemingly all costs.

You’re right, their midfield is really solid. And young. And just overall fun to watch, as dirty as it feels to say.

 

[Mercurial89]

We are in front of them but our max speed is about 80 with this group, they will collect talent by actually bottoming out, recruit the right things (ball Use and speed) and will top out at 110.

So who gives a shit if we are "ahead of them now" when it's all about ceiling.

People laughed at Carlton when the bones were there, people laughed at hawks and bag their coach and list out of hatred of the club. many Dons supporters are incapable of being impartial.

We celebrate the mediocre at this club and celebrate nail-biter wins off the back of once every couple of weeks Stringer performances and stick with proven average happy to be here types.
Hawks make hard coaching calls and actually make example of players and improve.

 

[Corleone]

We're much better defensively.

And yet we've conceded more points against?

It's very lucky that we don't play them again this year because they would beat us comfortably IMO.

You believe what you want.

I think we've hit another June wall and I don't see anything at our club that would suggest we have the plums to make the hard calls to actually make discernable change in our fortunes moving forwards. Once again, I hope I'm wrong, but once again I know I'm not.

 

[eth-dog]

And yet we've conceded more points against?

It's very lucky that we don't play them again this year because they would beat us comfortably IMO.

You believe what you want.

I think we've hit another June wall and I don't see anything at our club that would suggest we have the plums to make the hard calls to actually make discernable change in our fortunes moving forwards. Once again, I hope I'm wrong, but once again I know I'm not.

Anybody using points against as a reflection on defence really doesn't know what they're talking about.

 

[DERO]

Anybody using points against as a reflection on defence really doesn't know what they're talking about.

I mean no offence here and have not read anything else on here for context but this one has me stumped Eth.

 

[eth-dog]

I mean no offence here and have not read anything else on here for context but this one has me stumped Eth.

It's a number. Doesn't measure anything meaningful at all. It's useful for percentage but that's it.

 

[jannissary]

Anybody using points against as a reflection on defence really doesn't know what they're talking about.

i think that total score against is a pretty okay indicator of the quality of ones defence. if you're constantly leaking 100+ scores, your defence is not the best, if you're keeping teams under 70 points, it must be decent, no?

 

[Corleone]

Anybody using points against as a reflection on defence really doesn't know what they're talking about.

Yeah true; I reckon vibes are probably more reliable.

Have a good night.

 

[Phone]

Well there can be external factors that can influence the final tallies. I'd be surprised if the Hawks playing 3 games down in Tassie didn't ultimately slightly curb their total points scored/conceded at seasons end for example

 

[andleanback]

weird how all the terrible teams that we end up still in a contest with deep into the second half keep on showing up against us

Dunno but just have a look at yeo and Kelly’s performances today, they were disgraceful

 

[eth-dog]

i think that total score against is a pretty okay indicator of the quality of ones defence. if you're constantly leaking 100+ scores, your defence is not the best, if you're keeping teams under 70 points, it must be decent, no?

Yeah true; I reckon vibes are probably more reliable.

Have a good night.

Using points against to measure how good your defence is like saying Sam Flanders is the best midfielder in the AFL cos he gets the most touches.

Do we have a better defence than Geelong? If we go by raw numbers then yes, we do. But we all know that it isn't true.

My preferred available method is goals/inside 50 and scores/inside 50. Admittedly I hadn't realised how badly we'd fallen the past couple of weeks in this regard, heading into the Carlton game we were 8th and 9th in those areas respectively whilst being around the mean. Now we've dropped a lot and they've had a very good month, they were bottom 4 for both now they're 14th and 9th respectively to our 15th and 14th

 

[ghostdog]

Hawks doing to WC what we couldn't. Absolutely putting them away

In Perth. And WC had both Reid and Kelly this week.

 

[jannissary]

Using points against to measure how good your defence is like saying Sam Flanders is the best midfielder in the AFL cos he gets the most touches.

Do we have a better defence than Geelong? If we go by raw numbers then yes, we do. But we all know that it isn't true.

My preferred available method is goals/inside 50 and scores/inside 50. Admittedly I hadn't realised how badly we'd fallen the past couple of weeks in this regard, heading into the Carlton game we were 8th and 9th in those areas respectively whilst being around the mean. Now we've dropped a lot and they've had a very good month, they were bottom 4 for both now they're 14th and 9th respectively to our 15th and 14th

even using your preferred method we're shit.

no way around it.

 

[MiguelM]

West coast have also been horrible today. Shown zero effort or intent. They actually decided to show up and play against us.

Every team seem to bring it against us. We don't put them away when we should.

 

[ant555]

And yet we've conceded more points against?

It's very lucky that we don't play them again this year because they would beat us comfortably IMO.

You believe what you want.

I think we've hit another June wall and I don't see anything at our club that would suggest we have the plums to make the hard calls to actually make discernable change in our fortunes moving forwards. Once again, I hope I'm wrong, but once again I know I'm not.

Points against is not always a reflection of how you are defending.
Saturday we gave up 11 goals from turnover. You can not defend that .
We have consistently given up 8 plus goals via turnovers. That is not a defensive issue. That is a skill issue.
We have our defensive issues for sure but I have been to 5 Hawks games across the season and they are winning more from speed in the back half and players coming out of the back half kicking at 80% plus efficiency. Then you have their midfield group who win the football at ground level better than anyone else so they don’t lose a lot of contests.

 

[ant555]

In Perth. And WC had both Reid and Kelly this week.

Hawks have a weapon we do not have . Speed in the back half to break the defensive zone .
Hard to shut it down when both back pockets and both half back flanks can run with the footy at speed and then throw in two intercept players who kick at 80% plus efficiency.

 

[ant555]

Yeah I probably agree, I think we’ve been better this year. I do think we’re ahead of them - but not by 2-3 years. I think we set up fairly similar to them defensively, they just play on and attack at seemingly all costs.

You’re right, their midfield is really solid. And young. And just overall fun to watch, as dirty as it feels to say.

Will be an interesting watch . They have a good midfield. Speed in the back half to die for and some good small forwards. For me they just need a decent KPF and medium forward.
I actually think they have less spots to fill. Even more so if they get Battle.

I was a bit sceptical after going to a couple of early games but I am seeing what Bruno was selling as far as list balance and midfield balance.

I think they are likely to end up past us as we are still hamstrung by some list decisions made before Scott and the fact we are working on fixing 20 years of defensive issues before we actually work at taking the game on .