Mega Thread Non-Freo AFL Discussion 2023

[ilikepotatoes]

Sicily got three weeks as well - that's a bigger surprise

Is it? It's exactly the type of thing the AFL wants to get rid of - something that looks bad.

They don't care about the intent just the image - as soon as McLuggages neck was in that position he was done.

 

[Purple Suit]

I'm firmly of the belief that good coaches can find a way to maximise what they have. Their coaches have sucked.

I believe that even Ross would have failed at Carlton with their setup unless he was given complete control. Hence why he never got the job.

 

[Taylor]

To further illustrate my point FreoGirl and prpl_jss, not one Freo player remonstrated in the slightest

Fyfe went straight over and stood guard over him, they all followed his lead.

Serong was getting into someone all over the field later on, it might have been him.

 

[Taylor]

The AFL wants players contacting to have their hands going for the ball, pretty simple.

 

[88mph]

This site is fascinating. Every time we lose people console themselves with how bad Carlton are (or occasionally, how dire the Eagles are).

I’m not here to have my flaws highlighted.

Carlton really are terrible.

 

[estibador]

This site is fascinating. Every time we lose people console themselves with how bad Carlton are (or occasionally, how dire the Eagles are).

Not true, I also take great delight in how bad Carlton and the eagles are after we've had a win.

 

[Superkoops]

Personally thought De Goey should've got 4. Bullshit that he didn't. Plays for a big Vic club is the only reason he didn't get more weeks.

Definitely 4 for DeGoey
Probably 2 for Mansell

The fact the Freo medics said Aish will miss 2 games increased that to 3. Mansell must have actually flushed his head worse than I thought.

Zero for JOM would have been fair but what do I know.

 

[FreoGirl]

Definitely 4 for DeGoey
Probably 2 for Mansell

The fact the Freo medics said Aish will miss 2 games increased that to 3. Mansell must have actually flushed his head worse than I thought.

Zero for JOM would have been fair but what do I know.

The impact looked brutal - it was enough for Aish to lose his head band, and he looked groggy immediately

 

[Fyfetheknife]

Mansell getting three is pretty harsh in my opinion. The notion he could have tackled is pretty ridiculous. Neither player took possession of the ball so how is that supposed to go?

He does connect with the head but at the game I didn’t really think it was too egregious, just a great contest from two players committed to win the ball for their team. I’d say one would have been enough, even then, it was clearly an accident.

FWIW I don’t think we should be suspending players for football acts like that, so I probably skew a little lighter than most. I don’t believe it achieves what the AFL wants it to achieve.

 

[ignoramus]

I agree with most of what you say, except the second sentence when it comes to Freo. The following were either AA or close to it at various stages:
McPharlin, Johnson
Sandilands, Barlow, Mundy, Fyfe, Hill, Neale
Pavlich, Walters, Ballantyne

+ Ibbo

 

[FreoGirl]

Mansell getting three is pretty harsh in my opinion. The notion he could have tackled is pretty ridiculous. Neither player took possession of the ball so how is that supposed to go?

He does connect with the head but at the game I didn’t really think it was too egregious, just a great contest from two players committed to win the ball for their team. I’d say one would have been enough, even then, it was clearly an accident.

FWIW I don’t think we should be suspending players for football acts like that, so I probably skew a little lighter than most. I don’t believe it achieves what the AFL wants it to achieve.

Aish is likely to miss two games and could suffer from this for the rest of his life.

The AFL are bound to start taking outcomes more seriously. It’s never been ok, and should never have been dismissed in previous years.

 

[Fyfetheknife]

Aish is likely to miss two games and could suffer from this for the rest of his life.

The AFL are bound to start taking outcomes more seriously. It’s never been ok, and should never have been dismissed in previous years.

Yes, but suspending Mansell or any other player guilty of being involved in a head collision will not stop incidents like these happening.

They will have to change the entire fundamentals of the game for that.

As long as contact is allowed in this sport, these things will happen. The alternative is players start wearing helmets and pads, NFL style.

 

[Joao]

To a degree imo. Ross Lyon probably made the most of a poor last 5-6 players despite probably having a smaller group of elite players at both St Kilda and Freo. What he did have a much larger group of players that were actually AFL standard.

The second or third worst player in those teams is probably the tenth worst player in this Carlton side.

Whoever comes in would still need 2-3 years minimum to find enough reliable players to be a top four side. And I’m talking a very good coach here.

I think they have enough decent players outside the top 5 or 6. Agree to disagree.

I believe that even Ross would have failed at Carlton with their setup unless he was given complete control. Hence why he never got the job.

Yes it is possible that if the club is totally ****ed off field then I think anybody is going to struggle, I'd still back Ross to do better than Voss though.

 

[Dockeroo]

Carlton debate fascinating here. I’m firmly in the Johnny Dalmas camp and have been for a while now.
A few points.

• there is not a list in the league I couldn’t find 7 or 8 players that would fit on our list. People who argue that point dont understand the equalisation system.
• to properly compare, you need to rank every player from 1-30 on the freo list, based on perceived talent, side by side, and ask who would you take in a straight swap.
• after the 30th best player you are into development guys with minimal exposed form on either list.
• I think if you did this exercise, you would pick 23/30 from freo.
• Carlton have not drafted and developed a solid, 150 game role player in about 15 years with a pick outside the first round that is in their current B22. It’s quite Shambolic actually their record in this area.

My proposed exercise would be something like this:
Cripps or Brayshaw
Curnow or Darcy
Walsh or Serong
Mckay or Ryan
Cerra or Young
Saad or Jackson
Williams or Walters
Weitering or pearce
DeKoning or Amiss
McGovern or Clark
Doherty or Fyfe
Motlop or Schultz
Owies or Frederick
Hewitt or Cox
Lewis young

33

Lewis Young

Age

26

Ht

202cm

Wt

99kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.6

3star

K

7.5

3star

HB

4.1

3star

M

4.4

4star

T

1.6

4star

MG

197.9

3star

D

4.0

1star

K

3.0

1star

HB

1.0

1star

M

3.0

3star

T

0.0

1star

MG

26.0

1star

D

14.4

4star

K

8.2

4star

HB

6.2

4star

M

6.4

5star

T

2.0

4star

MG

181.6

3star

or Chapman
Kennedy or switta
Boyd or Walker
Johnson or Hollands
Aish or Acres

Hopefully people can start to see my point now. The relative comparison of our 10th best v theirs, our 15th best v theirs etc.

Once you go beyond the top few guys they have, we smash them. You are picking 70% freo guys in that comparison exercise above. Their list is shite and overrated

 

[Mags98]

They have 10-12 very good players. Most teams would dream of having that group imo. Replace most teams best 10-12 players with Carlton’s and they’d be better but almost no one is swapping anyone after that.

Problem is the rest of their best 22 and depth players are probably as bad as any team outside the bottom three. Not many of the rest of their team gets a game in a top eight side.

If 3-4 of those very good players are out all of a sudden it’s 6-9 good players and 13-16 below average players running around. That doesn’t win you many games imo.

no way they have 10-12 very good players, be lucky to push 6

 

[SHill Shall]

Yes, but suspending Mansell or any other player guilty of being involved in a head collision will not stop incidents like these happening.

They will have to change the entire fundamentals of the game for that.

As long as contact is allowed in this sport, these things will happen. The alternative is players start wearing helmets and pads, NFL style.

Yeah, nah.

 

[Taylor]

Yes, but suspending Mansell or any other player guilty of being involved in a head collision will not stop incidents like these happening.

They will have to change the entire fundamentals of the game for that.

As long as contact is allowed in this sport, these things will happen. The alternative is players start wearing helmets and pads, NFL style.

The AFL doesn't want the incidents to stop, that would be an unintended byproduct. They want to not be sued later for the outcomes of the incidents.

 

[Ge3ks]

Hopefully people can start to see my point now.

That's a lot of busy work just to say Carlton are crap.

 

[ImperialPurple]

Paywalled so I can’t show the full article but the headline is enough!! Oh dear

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Paywalled so I can’t show the full article but the headline is enough!! Oh dear

Like they are actually just having a laugh at this point right? Trying to get in on the Belltower times thing

 

[Purpletown]

Is it? It's exactly the type of thing the AFL wants to get rid of - something that looks bad.

They don't care about the intent just the image - as soon as McLuggages neck was in that position he was done.

Sicily plays like he is trying to hurt other players imo. Just back from suspension too I think.

Perhaps the AFL are sending him a message to tone his aggression down a bit.

 

[poshman]

Carlton debate fascinating here. I’m firmly in the Johnny Dalmas camp and have been for a while now.
A few points.

• there is not a list in the league I couldn’t find 7 or 8 players that would fit on our list. People who argue that point dont understand the equalisation system.
• to properly compare, you need to rank every player from 1-30 on the freo list, based on perceived talent, side by side, and ask who would you take in a straight swap.
• after the 30th best player you are into development guys with minimal exposed form on either list.
• I think if you did this exercise, you would pick 23/30 from freo.
• Carlton have not drafted and developed a solid, 150 game role player in about 15 years with a pick outside the first round that is in their current B22. It’s quite Shambolic actually their record in this area.

My proposed exercise would be something like this:
Cripps or Brayshaw
Curnow or Darcy
Walsh or Serong
Mckay or Ryan
Cerra or Young
Saad or Jackson
Williams or Walters
Weitering or pearce
DeKoning or Amiss
McGovern or Clark
Doherty or Fyfe
Motlop or Schultz
Owies or Frederick
Hewitt or Cox
Lewis young or Chapman
Kennedy or switta
Boyd or Walker
Johnson or Hollands
Aish or Acres

Hopefully people can start to see my point now. The relative comparison of our 10th best v theirs, our 15th best v theirs etc.

Once you go beyond the top few guys they have, we smash them. You are picking 70% freo guys in that comparison exercise above. Their list is shite and overrated

I get you are attempting to do a 1-30 based on your rankings, but that is not how this would be seen by list management. Also Cripps would not be top of their list. This should be lined up position vs position or at least area of the ground vs area of the ground.

TDK would not be in place of Amiss. It would be him in for one of our back up rucks or Treacy. In which case he would be an in.

Cripps - some wouldn't take him over Brayshaw, I think some would. Everyone is taking him over our 4th or 5th mid.

Walsh - Serong = we would probably keep our guy. I would guess most supporters league wide would take Walsh. He would definitely be taken over every mid we have outside of Brayshaw and Serong and even then there would be a lot of people who would take him over either. Personally I think Brayshaw is better, however, I am most likely biased...

Why is Curnow against Darcy? Put him against anyone in his position and the only reason he wouldn't be selected is Amiss is younger. If it was based on this year or next everyone is taking Curnow.

Cerra would be playing every week for us.

The closest two that make sense outside of Walsh/Serong = Weitering vs Pearce (pretty much the same player, I would take the younger one with the better injury history). Aish vs Acres, I would take our guy.

Anyway - I think the way you are looking at it is ver different to how I would assess it, which is fine.

The drafting and development side you mention is damning. I may be missing someone but they don't seem to develop players well.

 

[Fyfetheknife]

The AFL doesn't want the incidents to stop, that would be an unintended byproduct. They want to not be sued later for the outcomes of the incidents.

I know, which is frustrating. Because it is evident the players are not asking for this, and nor are the fans. Loads of players have expressed their discontent at some of the MRO decisions of late. Luke Ryan being one of them.

In my opinion the AFL is ruining its product for the people who matter the most, which is the people who actually play it.

 

[DragoDelph]

The Age (I think) summed it up quite well.

Bumps and tackles are not illegal UNTIL contact is made with the head, then it becomes outcome based.

Want to bump? Tuck in the elbow, go low. (Like Viney, who put Boak out of commission)
Want t tackle? Try and keep the player from going to ground. (Bear hug like big onions)

 

[poshman]

Paywalled so I can’t show the full article but the headline is enough!! Oh dear

I am just going to send this to any and every eagles fan I know whenever they say anything for the next 5 years.