Mega Thread Non-Freo AFL Discussion 2025

[yakamoto]

Meek was very good early in the last quarter with the game on the line.

 

[Purple Jesus]

They tend to make a lot less errors.

I saw plenty tonight. They just don't overthink it and play on.

 

[Stinky Lomax]

It’s the Hawks work when they don’t have ball in hand. Their positioning in relation to the contest & their ability to hold their width & make the ground enormous.

Footy is about the decisions you make without ball in hand, if you make good decisions there then the player with the ball decision making is a lot clearer & can be executed quickly under less pressure.

They may not excel around the contest but put enough pressure on to ensure the oppos ball movement is dirty & can be turned over. Bit like Richmond in their prime. I don’t think Carlton had that many marks inside 50.

 

[chaosball32]

Hawthorn look the goods. Even in games like tonight where they weren’t at their best they still find ways to win which is the sign of a good team. I still think their team isn’t anymore talented then ours, but they have a glut of B-graders who consistently play well: McKenzie, McDonald, Hardwick, Nash, Ward, D’Ambrosio etc.

Carlton’s entire gameplan is to kick it high and long to a pack contest every single time, which wouldn’t be so bad if they could at least take a fking mark. Outmarked 74-49 tonight. Their targets down the line included Curnow and Kemp who took a whopping 2 marks between them. Not sure why you’d play like that against Hawthorn who have Sicily, Barrass and Battle, three of the best intercept defenders in the league. Reminds me of us unfortunately, bad gameplan and no plan B.

 

[Quay Club]

The world is a better place when Carlton lose.

 

[s_wd6]

The chemistry just seems so natural it’s infuriating. They all know where the ball is going to go before it’s even reached the hands of the player disposing it.

**** Sam Mitchell.

 

[s_wd6]

And additionally, THE HANDBALLS GO FORWARD. This must make positioning easier or something so that you know where someone is going to be

Want to shoot myself every time JL says “we do move the ball fast we handball more than any other team.” Fails to mention that we handball backwards more than any other team too

 

[mightymouse75]

Want to shoot myself every time JL says “we do move the ball fast we handball more than any other team.” Fails to mention that we handball backwards more than any other team too

Sometimes we even handball to the wrong team..more than any other team

 

[BStaff17]

Good news Carlton are rubbish and already under the pump.

Bad news - Hawthorn look scary and have for a while tbh.

With the momentum they had last year if they didn't start 0/5 i reckon they would have won the comp if they finished in the top 4 last year.

No one has figured out a plan to stop them yet.

 

[Joao]

Who were all those people saying Meek was good again? Don't see it personally.

He toweled up a barely half fit Grundy in round 0 and turned into peak Gawn in the media that week. Then he played against fit ruckman and got pantsed twice.

 

[pK75]

He toweled up a barely half fit Grundy in round 0 and turned into peak Gawn in the media that week. Then he played against fit ruckman and got pantsed twice.

Geez I hope Grundy is still underdone so Jackson can look like peak Gawn this week.

 

[freo84]

Good news Carlton are rubbish and already under the pump.

Bad news - Hawthorn look scary and have for a while tbh.

With the momentum they had last year if they didn't start 0/5 i reckon they would have won the comp if they finished in the top 4 last year.

No one has figured out a plan to stop them yet.

I thought Essendon did quite well in stopping the Hawks. They just weren't as effective going forward.

 

[Dockeroo]

Want to shoot myself every time JL says “we do move the ball fast we handball more than any other team.” Fails to mention that we handball backwards more than any other team too

Our coach has come up with a high handball style that is intensely difficult to execute, certainly compared to the Richmond (Hardwick era) or Collingwood style of get it moving forward any way at all without being too precise.
The worst thing about our handballing game is the amount of short 2-3m handballs in the middle of the contest, under intense pressure. In fairness Brayshaw and Serong are probably the best two players we have at implementing it. They generally execute well and don’t fumble much.

The issue is JL doesn’t have 6 or 7 Brayshaws and Serongs running around out there in every handball chain.
Instead we have created a gamestyle that relies on incredibly high skill levels, clean hands, exceptional spatial awareness and skill execution, across 5, 6 or more consecutive handballs.

And we have got guys like Worner, Switta, Banfield, Walker, Wagner, Johnson, Frederick and the likes - even bloody Liam Reidy at times, involved in all of these elaborate chains of possession. Inevitably one of them throws a pass at someone’s knees or fumbles or executes a poor momentum stopping handball to the next receiver.
It’s turned over and immediately swept down the field by the opposition.
The problem is magnified when we have a high pressure (ie a good) team. It can look amazing against shite teams. Champagne football even, when the opposition pressure is low. But what good is that in games that matter, where opposition pressure will never be low?

Unless this style changes, significantly - Justin Longmuir is toast and doomed to failure.
We simply do not have the cattle to implement this style. Arguably no team in the league does.

 

[Patty_Moz]

Hawthorn look the goods. Even in games like tonight where they weren’t at their best they still find ways to win which is the sign of a good team. I still think their team isn’t anymore talented then ours, but they have a glut of B-graders who consistently play well: McKenzie, McDonald, Hardwick, Nash, Ward, D’Ambrosio etc.

Carlton’s entire gameplan is to kick it high and long to a pack contest every single time, which wouldn’t be so bad if they could at least take a fking mark. Outmarked 74-49 tonight. Their targets down the line included Curnow and Kemp who took a whopping 2 marks between them. Not sure why you’d play like that against Hawthorn who have Sicily, Barrass and Battle, three of the best intercept defenders in the league. Reminds me of us unfortunately, bad gameplan and no plan B.

Yeah I like Hawks talent mix. They have 3-4 top end players and what seems like an endless number of B types and a then the bottom few filling up the numbers. It’s similar to Coll and Geel.

Carl are more like 6-8 top end, 4-6 B types and a lot of others making up the numbers. If there’s injuries to any top end there’s issues. Swans and us seem to be structured more like this.

 

[Eski3]

Our coach has come up with a high handball style that is intensely difficult to execute, certainly compared to the Richmond (Hardwick era) or Collingwood style of get it moving forward any way at all without being too precise.
The worst thing about our handballing game is the amount of short 2-3m handballs in the middle of the contest, under intense pressure. In fairness Brayshaw and Serong are probably the best two players we have at implementing it. They generally execute well and don’t fumble much.

The issue is JL doesn’t have 6 or 7 Brayshaws and Serongs running around out there in every handball chain.
Instead we have created a gamestyle that relies on incredibly high skill levels, clean hands, exceptional spatial awareness and skill execution, across 5, 6 or more consecutive handballs.

And we have got guys like Worner, Switta, Banfield, Walker, Wagner, Johnson, Frederick and the likes - even bloody Liam Reidy at times, involved in all of these elaborate chains of possession. Inevitably one of them throws a pass at someone’s knees or fumbles or executes a poor momentum stopping handball to the next receiver.
It’s turned over and immediately swept down the field by the opposition.
The problem is magnified when we have a high pressure (ie a good) team. It can look amazing against shite teams. Champagne football even, when the opposition pressure is low. But what good is that in games that matter, where opposition pressure will never be low?

Unless this style changes, significantly - Justin Longmuir is toast and doomed to failure.
We simply do not have the cattle to implement this style. Arguably no team in the league does.

I think you are describing what happened on the weekend, rather than what our actual intended gameplan is. We are susceptible to overhandballing when we are under extreme pressure but it definitely is a major weakness and needs to be rectified. But it doesn't require a complete overhaul of the gameplan

We also need to work harder off the ball when a team is being physical. Often our players aren't necessarily searching for the "perfect" disposal, they're just looking for a free man and we're not working hard enough. Again, that's fixable

 

[dont bowl there]

D’Ambrosio is in no way a B-grade player, he might be the best field kick in the AFL.

 

[swanny1234]

I agree. I think we have the better 23. But they're definitely more fearless then us.

That mostly comes from being far better coached...

 

[BoneBroth]

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Geez I hope Grundy is still underdone so Jackson can look like peak Gawn this week.

He’s definitely not at full strength yet. This is also McLean’s first game for the year, I don’t think he played in any of the pre season games. So they are vulnerable in the ruck for sure. It’s maybe the best shot we have of creating dominance from the middle

 

[mattis117]

It’s the Hawks work when they don’t have ball in hand. Their positioning in relation to the contest & their ability to hold their width & make the ground enormous.

Footy is about the decisions you make without ball in hand, if you make good decisions there then the player with the ball decision making is a lot clearer & can be executed quickly under less pressure.

They may not excel around the contest but put enough pressure on to ensure the oppos ball movement is dirty & can be turned over. Bit like Richmond in their prime. I don’t think Carlton had that many marks inside 50.

On positioning, I thought our forwards were absolutely awful last week. Multiple times all three keys competing for the same ball and multiple times no crumbers front of the pack.

However, forward line disfunction can be a product of a midfield getting beaten, so keen to see how they go when the mids are having a better day.

Geez we miss Young!

 

[Bigger]

Our coach has come up with a high handball style that is intensely difficult to execute, certainly compared to the Richmond (Hardwick era) or Collingwood style of get it moving forward any way at all without being too precise.
The worst thing about our handballing game is the amount of short 2-3m handballs in the middle of the contest, under intense pressure. In fairness Brayshaw and Serong are probably the best two players we have at implementing it. They generally execute well and don’t fumble much.

The issue is JL doesn’t have 6 or 7 Brayshaws and Serongs running around out there in every handball chain.
Instead we have created a gamestyle that relies on incredibly high skill levels, clean hands, exceptional spatial awareness and skill execution, across 5, 6 or more consecutive handballs.

And we have got guys like Worner, Switta, Banfield, Walker, Wagner, Johnson, Frederick and the likes - even bloody Liam Reidy at times, involved in all of these elaborate chains of possession. Inevitably one of them throws a pass at someone’s knees or fumbles or executes a poor momentum stopping handball to the next receiver.
It’s turned over and immediately swept down the field by the opposition.
The problem is magnified when we have a high pressure (ie a good) team. It can look amazing against shite teams. Champagne football even, when the opposition pressure is low. But what good is that in games that matter, where opposition pressure will never be low?

Unless this style changes, significantly - Justin Longmuir is toast and doomed to failure.
We simply do not have the cattle to implement this style. Arguably no team in the league does.

I used to think this. And it must be true to some extent but I reckon it's a bit chicken and egg in that we revert to a high handpass and backwards handpass game when we are under pressure. We're not going in circles and futzing it up and then the oppo applies pressure. They apply pressure and we shit the bed. And then it compounds.

In fact, if we aren't under pressure, we waltz it out of stoppages and score super quickly. Like we did for a couple of minutes in the third last week. Problem is, you aren't always playing against your own B side or catching a good side napping.

So we need a better way to combat pressure. If they are swarming the ball carrier and waiting to pick off the third or fourth outlet handpass, then we should be ensuring one of two things. Pressure release kick earlier or always handpass forwards.

The other thing to consider, when we start damning our shitty handball game, is that we didn't have Young, Walters and Bolton last week. Three of our best (and three of the competition's best) users of the pill by foot.

 

[TheMcManusNose]

Yeah I like Hawks talent mix. They have 3-4 top end players and what seems like an endless number of B types and a then the bottom few filling up the numbers. It’s similar to Coll and Geel.

Carl are more like 6-8 top end, 4-6 B types and a lot of others making up the numbers. If there’s injuries to any top end there’s issues. Swans and us seem to be structured more like this.

Yep last night struck me how similar we are to Carlton at the moment.

You look at the names and say how can we/they be so shit? But the top end is good, it's the bottom end that is the problem.

Plus reliant on tall forwards firing to kick a good score.

 

[go_the_dockers]

D’Ambrosio is in no way a B-grade player, he might be the best field kick in the AFL.

I think Sicily is the best kick. He is unbelievable, but Hawks have 4 or 5 elite kicks that break apart opposition defence.

 

[dont bowl there]

I think Sicily is the best kick. He is unbelievable, but Hawks have 4 or 5 elite kicks that break apart opposition defence.

Absolutely ELITE kicks of the footy. I look at our players and I can only really put Young in the elite category for kicking.

 

[Bigger]

We are similar to Carlton in that we don't have answers when the plan doesn't work. We have to play a game on our terms to win and we cannot force enough good teams to play on our terms.

Or any good teams, really.

Damian Hardwick famously said he devised the essence of the Richmond game plan after being continually flogged at Connect 4 by his daughter. He figured out that she was winning because her gameplan was to allow him to overthink and make error on which she would capitalise. She wasn't trying to win, so much, as cut off his attacks, wait for him to **** up and then pounce.

We are currently massive overthinkers with too nuanced a strategy to win. **** all that shit. We have runners. We have speed. Flip the table. Hunt the pricks. Swarm them. Make them make errors.

There's a lot to be said for allowing your players to play instinctively. Sure, give 'em roles and structure but don't make it impossible or neutering for them to cook shit up on the fly.

Shackles off, Longy. Fly the freak flag. Unleash the god-damned mayhem.

 

[stax on the mull]

Rory has got the blue rinse going tonight. I'm mentioning as a reason to watch, rather than not to watch.