Sooner or later Hawthorn are going to have to stop relying on one day in September 2008.
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North vs Collingwood - Season defining match?
- Thread starter TassieSaint
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Sooner or later Hawthorn are going to have to stop relying on one day in September 2008.
this game is going to be interesting... i expect the pies to win, but u never know with north... i wonder how they'll cope without harvey.
You have a point Timmy, but seeing as Collingwood keeps declaring itself to be some mega successful football club with one flag in 50 years ... I guess we keep bragging rights for six or seven decades at least. Yes ?
Fair point Johnny, but lets just keep it topical, hey? The past 50 years has zip to do with the topic. Both teams are 2 and 3 at present.
And your post previous to that does?
They are directly related to each other and intertwined with the coach. After a decade this is Malthouse’s list and it plays Malthouse’s game plan. It even gets Malthouse’s results – same year in year out.
You got that wrong. He doesn’t have to grow into a leadership role he has to get better at a position on the ground which I don’t think he will.
Firstly, I have been saying for quite a while that this list has the worst leadership credentialed players in my lifetime and that is a failing of the coach. As for captaincy options I would have gone for Heath Shaw until the episode last year and thereafter Travis Cloke. My preference is still Heath Shaw but political correctness will rule him out for some time to come. The other option I would consider is Dane Swan. That said, if Maxwell is an automatic selection then he is the best captain on the list ignoring football ability. I’d argue he isn’t a good enough footballer but he has been an automatic selection since his first year.
As for Malthouse’s greatest failing it is pretty basic. He is not a good enough judge of horseflesh. It is evidenced in the early drafting he played a big part in and the trading over the decade.
Anyway, back to the thread:
Collingwood, with their back to the wall, will beat North Melbourne and probably win the following week only to lose the next week and I say that regardless of who we play. We’ll end the H&A season in 6th or 7th, look good in 1 final and poor in another and Malthouse will coach Collingwood in 2010.
He better find some form 1st, before the suspension his form was woefull bar 1 3rd quarter purple patch.
The only thing saving him is who replaces him and the little (c) next to his name.
He better find some form 1st, before the suspension his form was woefull bar 1 3rd quarter purple patch.
The only thing saving him is who replaces him and the little (c) next to his name.
Toovey Cox and Goldsack have shown worse form.
I realise that.
Yep. At least he's consistent
He's a hack, for sure. I'll give him his dues though, he's got some ticker (apart from whacking little blokes off the ball, but I think that's a different issue from ticker). I remember last year in one of Hawthorn's 10 goal pumpings of Collingwood when Franklin kicked about a thousand goals on Maxwell. He never dropped his head and just kept toiling away. It should also be said that he was hung totally out to dry by his coach. The poor bugger got comprehensively schooled, but I reckon his effort that day won him the Collingwood captaincy.
You're kidding if you don't think he's got a near-verticle learning curve ahead of him in terms of leadership though. Perhaps I've mis-interpreted your post Mark, perhaps you're saying that's small potatoes compared with his playing ability ?
I've been saying that for years about your mob, but whenever I do Pie fans get all bent out of shape about it. Personally, I've always thought it to be self-evident.
TBH, I reckon lack of character would rule him out. When put to the test, his strength of character failed the test. He embarrassed himself, his peers, and his club ... and that was after the fact that he got pissed-up, drove and lost control of his car smashing it into parked cars in a suburban street. I don't doubt that he's a candidate for captaincy at Collingwood, but that is an indictment on the club and Malthouse's legacy rather than some kind of vote of confidence in the player himself.
Another tip-rat isn't he ?
You're pretty much on your own there Mark. I'm not saying you're wrong, far from it, but every time I say the same thing I'm informed that Mick is not responsible for recruiting so that failing is someone else's fault.
steveo79
Senior List
I can't believe some of the supporters on here!!
But for TWO straight kicks, across only TWO games(Round 1 & Round 5), we'd be 4 - 1!! But some people think it's all over already!! We were 9th after 5 rounds last year with the same win/loss record.
Hold off doomsayers!!
But for TWO straight kicks, across only TWO games(Round 1 & Round 5), we'd be 4 - 1!! But some people think it's all over already!! We were 9th after 5 rounds last year with the same win/loss record.
Hold off doomsayers!!
Shaw wasn’t considered mad won’t be. Swan has a prior when he was quite a bit younger. Personally I think football club captains can be a bit wild off the field and still be great club captains. Players that played under Carey would testify to that.
Same excuse from every supporter defending every coach at every club. Malthouse directed the types we looked for in his early days. I base that on recruiting v his comments on players types and on Neil Balme saying as much a few times in the early years. I reckon he’s had less say at the draft table thank Christ but he is still in charge of who gets cut and who get traded in and out.
The list is far from disastrous but that isn’t the test. After a decade you have to win a flag. No ifs, buts or maybes.
I'm hardly relying on that win I'm just simply stating what we can do sure geelong may not not have been preforming to it's best that night but a collingwood team that played that way every game is a top 4 side but we don't and that is why we will have another middle of the road season
Galactico
All Australian
Wrong. Our list is in good shape with alot of youngsters. We have a young gun in the midfield called Pendlebury who has stepped up again this year and having a huge influence. Clearances and Cont. Poss he has figured strongly.
Leon Davis is a very talented, quick midfielder with A grade skills, capable of creating play. Heath Shaw, Dane Swan and Dale Thomas are talented line-breakers who can create play and link up, giving drive off half back or on a wing or in the middle. Dayne Beams is super promising for a first year player and loves the hard stuff.
Here's the thing. I believe all these playmakers are being stifled due to the gameplan implemented by MM. It rejects individual brilliance and is a stop/start, chip along the wings ploy. Due to this, not one of these talented players is willing (unless absolutely clear) to take on the game, take on the opposition, run and carry, handball effectively and create attacking football.
They are all capable. Some do need to improve their disposal sometimes (Thomas and Swan for instance) but, other than that, if they honed a different gameplan which rewarded their talent, they would all turn into genuine weapons. Some (like Pendlebury and Davis) already are....
Think about it. Look how good Pendlebury (at 21) is already. Now think about how much better he COULD be, given free reign to back himself and his skills ALL the time.
I watch Collingwood week in, week out. The game plan, not lack of talent, is the problem. It looks like we lack talent at times because the gameplan MM implements stifles their talent for all to see.
On topic - Both North and Collingwood are shot for 2009. Malthouse won't be there much longer, not sure about Laidley. Probably in both clubs best interests to change it up for next year.....
Galactico
All Australian
Since when has Davis, Shaw and Thomas still been flankers/pockets? Thomas was already having midfield stints last year as he developed his tank and has had a big influence in at least a couple of games this year, Davis had some superb games last year in the midfield, until injury halted him for a period. Pendlebury has been our main midfield weapon since late 07 and this year has risen another level..... Swan has been the grunt in our engine room for a while now.....somehow you haven't noticed....Heath Shaw is a line breaker off half back but his form has been missing. We need that back.
Our flankers are Didak and Medhurst who push up. See here is the thing, you THINK that the main playmakers are flankers/pockets because you rarely see them streaming forward, breaking the lines, moving the ball fast whether its with handball or kicking. Yet because I watch Collingwood so often, I have seen them ALL do it on occasions when the play has left them with room and time to spare, limiting the risk. Also they can't exactly link up play through the corridor when their options are all out on the wings and flanks. It's a vicious circle, the gameplan has to be followed unless it is changed across the team.
The talent is there. I have no doubt about that aspect. It's what you do with the talent.....
Also remember, all those midfielders are still relatively young (Davis aside). They all still have massive upside....
Go North!
Anthony and Cloke are also potential game breakers as is Rocca as a proven one, albeit at the end of his career. But the gameplan does them a massive dis-service.
Timmy I am being objective here and not a one eyed Tiger.
Your coach is an experienced bloke who is expert at getting teams to finals. Not many know more about he game than Mick. Everyone agrees on that or else should do. His gameplan is a response to what he has to work with on the track.
\You have been slowly but surely going backwards in he pst 2 years. No big fall off but a gentle curve going down. Take you list en masse and plant it in ia small club and it would be regarded as what it is...a mid ladder list with weaknesses in key positions and a lack of big name big game gamebreakers.
Being at Collingwood means the level of expectation is greater, the media interest greater, the wholeset up more high profile but essentially they remain that middling list.
Our list is as good as anybody's. We are one ruckman and a couple of midfielders short. We may even have those already, but just in development.
Its the gameplan that is killing us.
And yes we've been going backwards slowly on the ladder but we've churned over the list signnificantly and produced a new crop of youngsters pretty seamlessly - Anthony, O'Brien, Brown, Thomas, Pendlebury, Cloke, Beams, Wood, Clarke to name a few. I cant see us going into freefall but under Malthouse I'm not sure we're going to move forward either, because young talent is getting stifled by the "kick to the boundary line" gameplan.
Its the gameplan that is killing us.
And yes we've been going backwards slowly on the ladder but we've churned over the list signnificantly and produced a new crop of youngsters pretty seamlessly - Anthony, O'Brien, Brown, Thomas, Pendlebury, Cloke, Beams, Wood, Clarke to name a few. I cant see us going into freefall but under Malthouse I'm not sure we're going to move forward either, because young talent is getting stifled by the "kick to the boundary line" gameplan.
- Banned
- #75
How is it not a season defining match for North if we win?
Given, Harvey is a massive loss (as is Hansen given his form), but a North win would be followed by the inclusion of Wells and Campbell and with home games against Port, Freo and Brisbane in the next four, could see a bit of momentum gathered.
After what i saw on Saturday night i don't think we will win, but if we do it could be very season defining in terms of a run at finals.
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