not enough

[Bluebear]

I supppose as010 was disappointed in the 1995 GF (is he/she was born?)....after leading by 59 pts at 3/4 time....and extending the lead to 70 odd points with a record margin looming we dropped our effort and ONLY won by 61 pts......very disappointing.

 

[Smell The Glove]

Pagan asked the playing group at 3/4 time if the wanted to flood to protect the margin, or continue to attack playing man on man.

The players wanted to play man on man.

We haven't won a 4th quarter all year after round 1.
This didn't change last night.
Why should you expect that it would. Its not about effort.....its about fitness. We gave effort in the fourth.......just couldn't match their run. This has been the case all year and won't change overnight.
We are an average team coming good. Not a great team lacking effort. There is a world of difference.
Figure it out and get used to it.

Absolute rubbish. It's got nothing to do with fitness, most of the blokes out there had a good 30-60 games under their belts- more than enough to suggest a big enough fitness base to run out a game. If a first year player like Gibbs can chase down and tackle with the ferocity he did in the last quarter, then everyone should. Its got to do with the mental effort these boys put in. Simply put, they are not capable of a four quarter mental effort, and that is one thing we need to rectify before we can consider ourselves a premiership threat. Perhaps not this year, but by next year I would start to expect four quarter efforts most weeks.

Also, consider this. We play a long kicking, free flowing game right? Which team do you think will end up more buggered from that style of play, us or them? They will, because they are the ones constantly having to chase, and run to man up. No excuse physically, its all about the mental effort.

 

[as0l0]

I supppose as010 was disappointed in the 1995 GF (is he/she was born?)....after leading by 59 pts at 3/4 time....and extending the lead to 70 odd points with a record margin looming we dropped our effort and ONLY won by 61 pts......very disappointing.

when you read my posts do you see the words or do you make your own words up as you're reading?

 

[Smell The Glove]

when you read my posts do you see the words or do you make your own words up as you're reading?

I'm pretty sure he just takes out a few words here and there that appear to support his argument and just bullshits the rest.

 

[as0l0]

Who cares about the last quarter of a blow-out win, really. In two weeks time we'll look back and all we'll remember is the win, the game-breaking first 3 quarters, not that Port brought it back from 50 to 40 points with a few late goals.

It seems a bit petty to worry about the size of our winning margins - running up the score isn't classy at all. You get the win, lock it down then try a few things, making sure you don't get injuries.

i agree with what you're saying to some extent, but don't want to be looking back and saying...

"remember that win against port? why can't we do that again? why are we losing now?"

I want us all to look back at this win against port and say...

"remeber that win against port? that was good but not as good as the one's against Hawthorn or the Dockers"

When the team is not executing the killer blow, i get worried about what's going to happen next week, or against better opposition.

I happen to think we are a very good side who has had a bad run during this year and last. I think we belong in the 8 and can beat anyone. I know this is not inline with the negative people who think we are average.

 

[HBF]

sure, but EVERYTHING is done with a view to winning premierships. seeing the pieces fall into place is what brings satisfaction.

a piece went into place last night, but we had the chance to put 2 pieces in place. now we have to go back and work on that second piece again.

We ran and ran and ran last night, and with a young team, that will always take it's toll. Considering we had 20 goals up to 3/4 time is a huge effort, and you could just tell BEING AT THE GAME that the guys were spent.

It was far more important to get the win and get the guys confidence up, than to really run away with it in the last quarter. You said it yourself, seeing the pieces fall into place. They did that last night, and who knows, in 12-18 months time, we might very well run all over a team in the last quarter.

 

[as0l0]

We ran and ran and ran last night, and with a young team, that will always take it's toll. Considering we had 20 goals up to 3/4 time is a huge effort, and you could just tell BEING AT THE GAME that the guys were spent.

It was far more important to get the win and get the guys confidence up, than to really run away with it in the last quarter. You said it yourself, seeing the pieces fall into place. They did that last night, and who knows, in 12-18 months time, we might very well run all over a team in the last quarter.

i can live with that....just need to keep our eye on the big picture.

 

[HBF]

i can live with that....just need to keep our eye on the big picture.

And the big picture is to gradually build up a team that is capable of playing competitive finals footy. Flogging a team by 10+ goals would be nice at the time, but it would still be baby steps in the bigger picture.

 

[Bluebear]

when you read my posts do you see the words or do you make your own words up as you're reading?

When you watch a game do you just sit there to see the errors, or do you look at the positives as well.

Just so we are straight here, lets look at ALL the words you posted.......just see if I missed something.

it was great to win, but it wasn't enough. a real top side wouldn;t have given the opposition a free ride in the last quarter. because we slacked off, we robbed ourselves of a 10 goal win, a 10 goal win that we deserved.

a) you think we are a top side and have an expectation that as a top side we should have put them to the sword.
We are not a top side as is evidence by our last three years, and inability to win a final Q all year (except against the Tiges......which sort of doesn't count)

b) you think we slacked off rather than Port lifted to play to somewhere near there best......maybe some elements of both.......but Port have proven of the last 6 years that they are better than us so maybe they were just able to lift their effort.......and yes, maybe we backed off, or maybe we put in the same 4th quarter effort that we have put in all year.........

We still sit in 14th rather than 13th because of the last quarter.

Just another thing our boys need to learn.

We are 13th because of our first and third quarters.

So rather than win based on 1 Q (last round) we won 3 quarters.............they are learning plenty.

Maybe you are being impatient. Why not ease up on the negatives and enjoy the ride for a change.

Did I miss anything?

 

[Salaryman]

i can live with that....just need to keep our eye on the big picture.

asOI0, just out of interest why do you buy it when hbf says this, but BB is not listening to you and talking rubbish? THey are essentialy saying the same thing.

I as at the game as well and agree with HBF, our effort and gut-busting running in the first 3/4 was enormous....no surprise we couldn't sustain that, and to your cronie whippersnipper, did you see the end of the game?? Did you see the body language then? Our guys were dea don their feet.....do you work for the club, or are you a sports psychologist? i'm interested to see what evidence you have that we dropped our endeavour...did you administer a subjective experience questionnaire after the game? Seriously, you claim that BlueBear is espousing rubbish but you have even less evidence to prove your argument. It was obvious to all there how hard we ran in the first three quarters...come on, what evidence do you have that we dropped our heads in the last 1/4??

 

[as0l0]

asOI0, just out of interest why do you buy it when hbf says this, but BB is not listening to you and talking rubbish? THey are essentialy saying the same thing.

it's all in the delivery.

BB seems to take pleasure in ridiculing people and being as condescending as possible to anyone and everyone. BB is not respectful to fellow Carlton supporters when there is a difference of opinion.

perhaps i'm wrong in that opinion, but that is my perception and perception, so often, is reality.

I posted a point about how I enjoyed the game and it was a good win, but that it wasn't enough. I stand by that. It wasn't enough and our boys should be thinking that way when they take the field on Friday night. They are better than people give them credit for, better than the picture they see in thier mind. Just need to execute.

 

[HBF]

Don't get me wrong Gilly, I would have loved to have had a big win last night. In fact, I even made mention of that at 3/4 time to you. However, seeing them during the final quarter, you could see that they were out on their feet. Just another small step in the quest to become a competitive team again, and the light is getting much bigger at the end of the tunnel.

 

[as0l0]

When you watch a game do you just sit there to see the errors, or do you look at the positives as well.

since you are the king/queen of the quote, why not look back at my post game posts from the last years when we had been thrashed? You will find that I was one of the few that found some type of positive to take out of those games.

I still believe my original post is a positive, not a negative. It's constructive critisism.

 

[HBF]

it was great to win, but it wasn't enough. a real top side wouldn;t have given the opposition a free ride in the last quarter. because we slacked off, we robbed ourselves of a 10 goal win, a 10 goal win that we deserved.

We still sit in 14th rather than 13th because of the last quarter.

Just another thing our boys need to learn.

This was your original post as0I0.
How is that a positive post?

 

[as0l0]

This was your original post as0I0.
How is that a positive post?

because it says that we had a great win, but we are even better than that, that we have more to offer, over and above this great win.

 

[Bluebear]

because it says that we had a great win, but we are even better than that, that we have more to offer, over and above this great win.

and my response to that (....again......) is that I think we are not better than that.......we have shown in EVERY match this year (barring the Tiges game) that this is the case.............agree to disagree rather than keep pushing this "We are better than this" rubbish.

We are a 3/4 wooden spoon team making there way up the ladder. We just knocked off a team that was on top of the ladder a few rounds ago, and that we have had great difficulty inbeating in recent times.

Would a 10+ goal margin have been nice? Sure.
Was it likely? No.
Why? Because we lose final quarters by 4-5 goals this year, so this was about on the money.
Like it? No. But we did enough early to win and that is enough for now.
If we were serious premiership cntenders then it would have been disappoiinting, but we are serious wooden spoon contenders and this result is just fine.

I'm happy. You should be too.
Your original post was not positive, which is why so many people have criticised you in this thread. Maybe your words were choosen poorly and didn't convey the constructive part of the criticism you were oferring.......I don't know.
Pick me out all you like, but move on.

 

[jj1978]

Being at the game, I was telling some fellow supporters at 3/4 time we need to make a statement and demolish them further and win by 70+.

After the game I thought about that statement and realised I said that only to stroke my ego and feel good about a good ole Carlton demolishing a team (esp. Port).

Now thinking... our other 3 wins this year we've had to come back from being BEHIND. Last week we won only 1 quarter against the dogs and won. This week we won 3 of the 4 quarters. That is big improvement in my books.

The amount of mental energy we saved by being in front by 10 goals at 3/4 time could play a big factor in us having a real red hot go for 4 quarters on Friday against the Hawks.

The thing is... they'll learn from it.. they'll see what can happen if you let go. And they did learn, you could see the tempo of our boys change after Ports quick goal fest came on... Fev missed some chances that he would normally nail which may have made our win a little more.

Best of luck to our boys next week!

 

[HBF]

because it says that we had a great win, but we are even better than that, that we have more to offer, over and above this great win.

Just because the first 5 words of the post are positive, doesn't mean that it is a positive post.

 

[DIG]

because it says that we had a great win, but we are even better than that, that we have more to offer, over and above this great win.

Maybe if you had actually said that in your first post, people would've thought it constructive and not cold water.

But I can see your point. I actually stumbled across our 1999 yearbook today. SOS was asked after the famous prelim win how come they never lost hope and gave up. His response:

"Because I knew losing a preliminary final was unacceptable to the Carlton Football Club"

This is the type of pride we need to get back. But you can't expect it to happen overnight. Last night wasn't the perfect game but it was still our biggest win in years. There's nothing to be gained in criticising it. Enjoy it.

 

[as0l0]

but i was trying to pour cold water. saying, hold up a second, winning is good but let's not be like footscray or saint kilda who are happy with a few wins a year.

anyway, the thread is supposed to be about carlton, not about me.

 

[HBF]

but i was trying to pour cold water. saying, hold up a second, winning is good but let's not be like footscray or saint kilda who are happy with a few wins a year.

anyway, the thread is supposed to be about carlton, not about me.

Who says we are anything like Footscray or St.Kilda?
From where we have come from, any win is a good win. Who knows how many wins we'll end up with this year, but as long as we keep progressing and like I have said previously, end up with a list that can be competitive in September.

 

[Bluebear]

but i was trying to pour cold water. saying, hold up a second, winning is good but let's not be like footscray or saint kilda who are happy with a few wins a year.

anyway, the thread is supposed to be about carlton, not about me.

Didn't mean to get you rilled up there as010.

To suggest that I enjoy ridiculing people and am condescending to anyone that doesn't a gree with me is a little over the top.

Yes, I often use sarcasm to make a point...........and if you take that as personal ridicule then I'm sorry for that.

For the sake of discussion you haven't explained why the effort wasn't enough when the evidence over the course of the year should have us expecting nothing more.

Why do you expect a bigger fourth quarter than what we have produced all year, especailly when often teams that lead by such a margin "take the foot off" and opposition sides "make the scoreboard respectable".

We did this a lot last year.......against Freo most notably......anyway, I digress.

Discussion points:
We haven't won a fourth Q this year barring the Tiges......why expect more now.
This team hasn't been 11 goals in front ever......why do we expect they execute the "drive it home" mentality when this is etnirely foreign to this playing group.

Fair points, nothing personal.

 

[DIG]

but i was trying to pour cold water. saying, hold up a second, winning is good but let's not be like footscray or saint kilda who are happy with a few wins a year.

anyway, the thread is supposed to be about carlton, not about me.

Suit yourself - be miserable until we play the 100% perfect season.

I'm happy to soak up a good win and look forward to the Hawks next week.

 

[as0l0]

For the sake of discussion you haven't explained why the effort wasn't enough when the evidence over the course of the year should have us expecting nothing more.

Why do you expect a bigger fourth quarter than what we have produced all year, especailly when often teams that lead by such a margin "take the foot off" and opposition sides "make the scoreboard respectable".

for the sake of discussion then..

if we go by the evidence, then how could we possibly be up by 10 goals when this hasn't happened before? How could we beat port when we haven't done it since 2001? The evidence doesn't support these outcomes. Nonethless, these were the outcomes.

If i were Pagan, i would have been out to the boys at 3/4 time to tell them that the job wasn't done. To tell them that good teams go on from here to boost percentage. Good teams play 4 quarters of football. I think he did go out and say that, but it didn't work out the way he planned.

most people on here have disagreed with my view, yet i wouldn't be able to find one of them who were championing the cause for playing 3/4's of football. All the talk on the forum has been about playing 4 quarters, but it turns out that was all fluff. People don't care if we play 1 quarter or 4, so long as we win. Well, I do care and I want us to be able to play 4 quarters of football at will.

 

[pumped]

This was your original post as0I0.
How is that a positive post?

If it is the truth or even the truth as as0I0 sees it then it is positive. Positive is imo not about highlighting things we do right and ignoring what we could do better.Positive is bing truthful not politically correct.