NOW to sometime later in the year (maybe) - Talk about anything

[Voice of the G]

2 East Ringwood hotels will not open?

Daiseys,has beeen sold to a aged care centre including the soil business next door and The Maroondah Centre at the East Ringwood FC in the hands of a administrator and unless a new buyer can be found gone to.Can not completely blame on the Corona Virus but perhaps to many hotels in that region any way.The Mitcham Hotel is safe because my mate Level Nuts drinks there.

 

[CliffMcTainshaw]

Sorry I asked the question and I do not mean to be rude.

My understanding of all this was Stage 1 ,up to 500 people at a venue,Stage 2 100. Stage free up to 10 people in a group so that is the end of a footy game I would have thought.Other issues,2 hotels in East Ringwood it seems will not open after this corona virus,20 of the 45 clubs in the EDFNL have 3 weeks ago voted to cancel the season.I know of a few of the them and if the EDFNL decides to start a season without them and 5 of them are in 8 team grade so what happens there.As for one of my favorite grounds Walker Park the home of the Mitcham Football Club the G is looking a picture and we plan to show the rew development on or social media shortly.

I didn't think you were being rude so no sweat on that matter.
Is the EDFNL, the Essendon District Football Netball League or did you mean EFNL?
My question a couple of days ago was about who decides if we play. Will it be the EFNL or the Clubs, if the 44% of clubs want to opt out, will they be allowed to, could temporary Divisions be created or will the season be cancelled? These are just some of the things that will need to be decided after May 11th.
The documents that I posted really are just guidelines for a process that will eventually bring about the return of community sport.

 

[Voice of the G]

I didn't think you were being rude so no sweat on that matter.
Is the EDFNL, the Essendon District Football Netball League or did you mean EFNL?
My question a couple of days ago was about who decides if we play. Will it be the EFNL or the Clubs, if the 44% of clubs want to opt out, will they be allowed to, could temporary Divisions be created or will the season be cancelled? These are just some of the things that will need to be decided after May 11th.
The documents that I posted really are just guidelines for a process that will eventually bring about the return of community sport.

No sorry should be EFNL,Yep 2 different points and something the clubs will have to read and vote on,the numbers bugger up the sides remaining in the divisions a tough call for the EFNL yet again.Still favour scrap the season for me.

 

[CliffMcTainshaw]

I'm of the same opinion. Start again next year.

 

[CliffMcTainshaw]

Any chance you can give us the main points out of all that instead of us trying to read it all and you give us your personal thoughts.As for the 10 spectators separated at ground do you guys know the same for players in a game to and no tackling and 10 and 10 in a game with no tackling no game I would think
but stand to be corrected.

Best I can do at this stage.

We are currently at Stage A, which is effectively no organized sport.

Stage B can be interpreted as a return to small scale play, noting the cap on groups of 10.

Stage C describes a resumption of normal activities. .

There are no time-frames set for a when Stages B and C may be reached, though the current state of emergency expires on May 11 and it is realistic to expect further guidance after that date.

Federal and State directions may potentially over-lap and involve contradictions which may need further clarification.

 

[Rusted nuts]

Best I can do at this stage.

We are currently at Stage A, which is effectively no organized sport.

Stage B can be interpreted as a return to small scale play, noting the cap on groups of 10.

Stage C describes a resumption of normal activities. .

There are no time-frames set for a when Stages B and C may be reached, though the current state of emergency expires on May 11 and it is realistic to expect further guidance after that date.

Federal and State directions may potentially over-lap and involve contradictions which may need further clarification.

After listening to Richard Colbeck on SEN yesterday and thoroughly reading the guidelines to reboot sport my opinion is when May 11th rolls around and restrictions shall be eased we will be able To return to training but must be split into groups of 10, AFL club were forced to train in this manner leading into round 1 so it is very possible to return to train.

The second point or Level C indicates the next stage will see community sport return to full training with contact and a return of competition. Reading the guidelines around spectators. There is no clarity around how many supporters will be able to attend but is does indicate that spectators would be required to demonstrate social distancing, avoid contact with players and avoid social Clubrooms and unnecessary touching or contact with surfaces.

The government has ruled mass gathering at stadiums due to the closed in spaces but a crowd of 250-300 spaced around a football oval in my opinion is no worse than what has been happening at Bunnings on Saturdays.

I think under these guidelines there is some scope for crowds under strict protocols to attend games. That would be a great result if so!

 

[blueblood005]

Hearing today that leagues are looking at juniors returning mid July and seniors start of July. Crowd being a TBC depending on numbers and tests over the next 6 weeks. Senior training to begin mid June In groups of 10 and no contact. That will ramp up depending on cases etc. Exciting news if true.

 

[Voice of the G]

Hearing today that leagues are looking at juniors returning mid July and seniors start of July. Crowd being a TBC depending on numbers and tests over the next 6 weeks. Senior training to begin mid June In groups of 10 and no contact. That will ramp up depending on cases etc. Exciting news if true.

Some good news for us supporters,players perhaps but if we play the future of the clubs worries me and especially those poor buggers on senior committees with projected clubs budgets for 2020 now in the rubbish bins.We all want to play but we also want all 45 teams back in 2021 and is it worth the risk for just half a season.I would like to see the juniors try and get on the park for 6 to 8 weeks though if possible.

 

[nosecondprize]

Hearing today that leagues are looking at juniors returning mid July and seniors start of July. Crowd being a TBC depending on numbers and tests over the next 6 weeks. Senior training to begin mid June In groups of 10 and no contact. That will ramp up depending on cases etc. Exciting news if true.

Clubs need income. If they say clubrooms can’t be used, then that means no functions, no people staying after games, no
Dinners on Thursday nights. Clubs cannot start without any of this available, unless players play for free, fees are scrapped, so umpires are not paid. It just has to be a season where virtually every single person down to the trainers don’t get a cent or clubs in mass will fold!

 

[blueblood005]

Clubs need income. If they say clubrooms can’t be used, then that means no functions, no people staying after games, no
Dinners on Thursday nights. Clubs cannot start without any of this available, unless players play for free, fees are scrapped, so umpires are not paid. It just has to be a season where virtually every single person down to the trainers don’t get a cent or clubs in mass will fold!

Apparently umpires happily accepting lower pay in some leagues. What would other costs be besides player payments? Obviously league fees (which I’d say will be heavily reduced) and council fees? Anything else ?

 

[nosecondprize]

Apparently umpires happily accepting lower pay in some leagues. What would other costs be besides player payments? Obviously league fees (which I’d say will be heavily reduced) and council fees? Anything else ?

Player payments
Trainers
Strapping/tape
Coaches
League fees
Council fees
Bar staff/canteen staff
Water
Electricity
Stocking the bar and canteen
Licences to actually serve alocohol you pay each year

I know there is a lot more I can’t think of off the top of my head, but it does all add up. Council, league and government would all have to come to the party and reduce most of this if clubs are to be ok.

 

[CliffMcTainshaw]

This is from the Essendon District Football League forum and may give some idea of costs at the Prem Div.

I get the feeling that there are quite a few people who do not understand the vast array of costs for all EDFL Prem clubs. Been round long enough to know balancing the books is a VERY challenging job for the volunteer administrators - Lets have a look:

EXPENSES
$200,000* - Total Player Payments (that's the cap)
$50,000 - Coaching payments (senior coach, reserves, assistants)
$75,000 - EDFL Affiliation & Umpire fees
$10,000 - EDFL fines (can be much lower if the poor volunteers didn't spell little Johnnys name wrong)
$10,000 - Physios
$20,000 - strapping & medical
$10,000 - insurance
$10,000 - ground and pavilion rent (Council)
$10,000 - utilities (gas, elect)
$10,000 - bank fees (banks fees plus SportsTG takes 3.9% of all player subs)
$5,000 - IT, wifi, foxtel
$5,000 - photos, trophies for snr and jnr
$70,000 - merchandise (give much of it to players for no or little return - break even at best)
$75,000 - bar (need to buy the grog to sell it)
$50,000 - canteen (need to buy the food to cook and resell it)
$20,000 - functions (need to buy food, hire talent and rooms before selling tickets)
$10,000 - raffle purchases
$10,000 - maintenance

How'm I going so far, that's $650,000 and i'm sure to have left stuff off (about $1,000 per player!)

REVENUE - lets have a shot
$0 - Gate takings
$150,000 - player subs (it is incorrect to say all players pay the same amount, they don't, families pay less)
$120,000 - bar sales (none of which are on jnr sundays)
$75,000 - canteen sales
$70,000 - merch
$25,000 - raffles
$50,000 - functions

We're still $150,000 short. How much sponsorship money do people think there is going around? What about in Covid 2020 and 2021?

* I can hear some of you saying, what about sign-ons and under the table payments? Seriously, this is way less prevalent than people think. Look at the math. So some clubs do pay small sign-ons, but does this make the club morally corrupt for paying it or the player for taking it?

To have a go at Prem div club subs for juniors is wrong, and its even poorer form to compare StBs $200pp fees. They pay no rent, no utilities and no senior player payments. Go to the private boys footy if you want (drive to and play with the angel boys at Altona, St Albans and Caroline Springs). Some VAFAs even have a token girls team so it makes them appear relevant. Most EDFL prem div teams have established girls/womens teams.

Pfeww, that was long...

 

[Voice of the G]

Some positive news as can be seen by the EFL web site.The redevelopment of Walker Park the home of the Mitcham Football Club is now completed and even you Cliff can understand the message why we call WP the MCG of East.

 

[CliffMcTainshaw]

And looking more and more likely that it won't be used until the cricket season either!

 

[Voice of the G]

And looking more and more likely that it won't be used until the cricket season either!

Sadly I agree.Play 9 games with all these restrictions, most likely some still around till September.I can see most clubs taking a financial hit out of this if they play. No.1 is we have 45 clubs currently,we want to start with 45 in 2021.PS This would be I think R5 today,I reckon nearly every round if played would have been effected by rain so far.

 

[CliffMcTainshaw]

Without the ability to have crowds at games I can't see any club even breaking even.
Even if we get to Step 3 in the resumption plan in time to play 9 games, gatherings (is this different from crowd size) will be limited to 100.
You would think that spectators would be limited to paid up club members and even then, not all paid up members would be able to get in to watch the game.
I can anticipate that there would be severe penalties for clubs if more than 100 people were in attendance. Clubs will have to count people at the ground.
Would trainers, coaches, players, umpires, reserve players, etc. be counted in the 100 ceiling? If they are it will be pointless to hope you will have any chance of many supporters getting to see a game.
Unfortunately, it all seems to be getting more and more complicated.
Far better if the EFNL makes the decision to cancel 2020 and start afresh next year.

 

[CliffMcTainshaw]

On thinking further if that grouping of 100 applies then having 2 teams with reserves, 2 field umpires, 2 goal umpires and 2 boundary umpires for each game, then that adds up to 100. Without any coaches, trainers, timekeepers, scoreboard attendants etc.
That means no hope of playing until we get past Step 3 in resumption to normal life.

 

[blueblood005]

And looking more and more likely that it won't be used until the cricket season either!

It’s looking more and more likely that there will be games Cliff.

 

[CliffMcTainshaw]

It’s looking more and more likely that there will be games Cliff.

We'll agree to disagree then!
From todays Age.
"Australian Deputy Chief Medical Officer Professor Paul Kelly has backed up comments by Victorian Chief Health Officer Dr Brett Sutton who stated earlier he didn’t think there would be sporting crowds in Victorian until 2021".

 

[blueblood005]

We'll agree to disagree then!
From todays Age.
"Australian Deputy Chief Medical Officer Professor Paul Kelly has backed up comments by Victorian Chief Health Officer Dr Brett Sutton who stated earlier he didn’t think there would be sporting crowds in Victorian until 2021".

I would assume most of the money being pumped into local clubs probably comes from reserves players buying alcohol during the senior match and then both clubs spending money over the bar after both games back in the function rooms. If those options get wiped out also - I think it’ll spell trouble. Crowd not a huge deal imo.

 

[CliffMcTainshaw]

It isn't the gate income that spectators are needed for it's the money they spend. If you get 500 people at a game and only half of them buy one beer that's the equivalent at least 10 beers for every reserve player. If they are drinking that much at the game then it's no wonder they're in the reserves.
However, there are plenty of spectators that will down 10 tinnies (and more), before, during and after a game. I've seen a couple of spectators run up a bar tab of $400 during a game. Don't forget all the hamburgers, chips, dim sims, pies, sausage rolls, coffee, tea, soft drinks etc that they also purchase. Once crowd numbers go down so does club income and survival becomes a lot more difficult.

 

[Rusted nuts]

It isn't the gate income that spectators are needed for it's the money they spend. If you get 500 people at a game and only half of them buy one beer that's the equivalent at least 10 beers for every reserve player. If they are drinking that much at the game then it's no wonder they're in the reserves.
However, there are plenty of spectators that will down 10 tinnies (and more), before, during and after a game. I've seen a couple of spectators run up a bar tab of $400 during a game. Don't forget all the hamburgers, chips, dim sims, pies, sausage rolls, coffee, tea, soft drinks etc that they also purchase. Once crowd numbers go down so does club income and survival becomes a lot more difficult.

I’m not sure what level you are involved with at club but I feel like you have an extremely pessimistic approach.

Let’s have a look at ways your club can prosper? If you think crowds are the be all then your club is in strife. You will need to sharpen up your business model and refine your methods of revenue raising. With reduced Player payments, council fees and League fees I feel most clubs will be get through ok and with the support of the leagues there will be support mechanisms and education methods for clubs to fall back on. If your club hasn’t been reviewing it’s business model over the 2 months I would find that to be extremely negligent.

 

[CliffMcTainshaw]

No, just realistic about how difficult it will be if play recommences without any spectators allowed. We will know a bit more after Monday.
Anyway without discussing all these sorts of things before beginning play, that would be negligent and irresponsible.

 

[blueblood005]

No, just realistic about how difficult it will be if play recommences without any spectators allowed. We will know a bit more after Monday.
Anyway without discussing all these sorts of things before beginning play, that would be negligent and irresponsible.

Heard this morning you may be right cliff! Clubs saying no if no crowds. Crowds and bar open the big ones in regards to a season going ahead. No bar and no crowd equals no footy.

 

[CliffMcTainshaw]

See GMac, you should have left your post in place.