Narre North is closer to Ferntree Gully than say Surrey Park (most western club likely to v NN) - what is “geographic centre” of the EFNL currently and how much does that change if Berwick leave?
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- Thread starter CliffMcTainshaw
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- Nov 25, 2003
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Balwyn most western club.
Nothing has ever changed regarding the Eastern heart land and this what those in power have failed to realise. Clubs 30kms south of HQs are not relevant to Eastern clubs and were never going to be. No doubt I’ve bored many here banging on about this for years.
I have empathy for these clubs they have been abandoned and left to drift for years. Hopefully they end up in a competition in which they can flourish.
I hope those at AFL Vic that created this disaster are long gone.
There's a definite issue with leadership. Once upon a time when clubs were looking to shift, it had to be agreed by both leagues or it went to AFL Vic (Football Vic) for mediation and a decision was made centrally that took into account the best interests of the game in the area. Some of us will remember the first stage of the EFL's expansion when they tried to grab Balwyn and Heidelberg... Balwyn got in, but Heidelberg was told no... you're a northern club. It was one of the major triggers for the old DVFL to get their shit in order.
It doesn't work like that now. At some point AFL Vic decided they don't have the knowledge, resources or interest in looking after the structure of local footy and since then - though there was no announcement - clubs and leagues have been allowed to do pretty much whatever they pleased.
The problem of course is that it leads to narrow interests and empire building winning out over the best interests of the majority and the game itself.
At the moment there's a lot of debate about what should happen in Bendigo and Central Vic because so many of the leagues are uncompetitive and lobsided. AFL Vic have said they prefer "bottom-up" changes which just means "you tell us what you're going to do". Of course they should have a major say, but there's nobody at the top managing it all.
Years ago the EFL said they wanted five divisions and 50 clubs. OK. Why? Who is better of? The existing EFL clubs? The new clubs being targeted to move leagues for no other reason than building an empire at the expense of another? For years the SFNL have battled a reputation of being a poor, lower quality cousin. Well yeah... Take all the strong clubs from the area and put them in other leagues and that'll happen. Thankfully it's now rebounding.
But things like the whole south-east debacle are clearly an issue. You have a south-east "regional commission" which is clearly compromised and their whole strategy is / was to jam every club into their one premier league (the MPFNL)... Again, empire building... When even the clubs in that league didn't want it and have voted against it countless times. Surely somebody needs to take the lead? I have empathy for Berwick as at least they got on the front foot, looked at their options and chose what they thought was best... But that's also because there wasn't a good south-east structure that was available to them. Now it appears to have really hurt them - the people at the club at the time might have made the best decision that they all agreed with, but it clearly hasn't resulted in the growth of the club with new generations - quite the opposite.
AFL Vic’s answer to all the levels and empires appears to have been the regional commissions. But it looks like that hasn’t really worked in many areas.
It doesn't work like that now. At some point AFL Vic decided they don't have the knowledge, resources or interest in looking after the structure of local footy and since then - though there was no announcement - clubs and leagues have been allowed to do pretty much whatever they pleased.
The problem of course is that it leads to narrow interests and empire building winning out over the best interests of the majority and the game itself.
At the moment there's a lot of debate about what should happen in Bendigo and Central Vic because so many of the leagues are uncompetitive and lobsided. AFL Vic have said they prefer "bottom-up" changes which just means "you tell us what you're going to do". Of course they should have a major say, but there's nobody at the top managing it all.
Years ago the EFL said they wanted five divisions and 50 clubs. OK. Why? Who is better of? The existing EFL clubs? The new clubs being targeted to move leagues for no other reason than building an empire at the expense of another? For years the SFNL have battled a reputation of being a poor, lower quality cousin. Well yeah... Take all the strong clubs from the area and put them in other leagues and that'll happen. Thankfully it's now rebounding.
But things like the whole south-east debacle are clearly an issue. You have a south-east "regional commission" which is clearly compromised and their whole strategy is / was to jam every club into their one premier league (the MPFNL)... Again, empire building... When even the clubs in that league didn't want it and have voted against it countless times. Surely somebody needs to take the lead? I have empathy for Berwick as at least they got on the front foot, looked at their options and chose what they thought was best... But that's also because there wasn't a good south-east structure that was available to them. Now it appears to have really hurt them - the people at the club at the time might have made the best decision that they all agreed with, but it clearly hasn't resulted in the growth of the club with new generations - quite the opposite.
AFL Vic’s answer to all the levels and empires appears to have been the regional commissions. But it looks like that hasn’t really worked in many areas.
Ryan17
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- Sep 20, 2023
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how is there not currently a local comp there? in the corridor between Keysborough and Pakenham there are: Keysborough, Dandenong West, Endeavour Hills, Doveton x2, Hallam, Hampton Park, Cranbourne, Berwick, Narre Warren, Narre South, Beaconsfield, Officer and Pakenham. That's 14 clubs and there's more that i've probably missed and even more with the slightest north/south expansion. most of those clubs would be reasonably competitive with each other too.
A couple of clubs wanted out of the SEFNL because they were not competitive. Hampton Park went to the Southern and Dingley went too, which brought about its demise.
The landscape is slightly different now. We have Berwick Springs now and some of the 'weaker' clubs then would be more competitive nowadays.
Not sure if I would be adding Dandy West in that bracket. I reckon they might be out of their depth against the likes of Cranbourne and Narre Warren and probably others too.
IIRC the SEFNL started with eight clubs which was too few as it quickly fell apart when clubs left. With 10 or 12 clubs, it would stand a better chance nowadays.
The landscape is slightly different now. We have Berwick Springs now and some of the 'weaker' clubs then would be more competitive nowadays.
Not sure if I would be adding Dandy West in that bracket. I reckon they might be out of their depth against the likes of Cranbourne and Narre Warren and probably others too.
IIRC the SEFNL started with eight clubs which was too few as it quickly fell apart when clubs left. With 10 or 12 clubs, it would stand a better chance nowadays.
It’s been a corridor of super rapid population growth over the last 20 - 30 years, what was needed was some leadership to cater for this and turn what was once a country league into a metro league. The SEJ is the perfect basis, you had the 8 or 9 established senior clubs and then the plan should’ve been to bring more of the junior clubs through to senior footy as the population exploded.
That never happened and obviously none of the existing clubs wanted it to happen - they’d much rather have 3 or 4 junior clubs for each of them… who wouldn’t. Again… narrow interests, empire building, no leadership.
Berwick Springs have got up… the old St John’s wisely went to Narre South and became Narre South seniors.
You still have junior clubs at Berwick North, Cardinia, Clyde, Fountain Gate and Narre North.
That never happened and obviously none of the existing clubs wanted it to happen - they’d much rather have 3 or 4 junior clubs for each of them… who wouldn’t. Again… narrow interests, empire building, no leadership.
Berwick Springs have got up… the old St John’s wisely went to Narre South and became Narre South seniors.
You still have junior clubs at Berwick North, Cardinia, Clyde, Fountain Gate and Narre North.
A few important wins this week across the league.
- Berwick win for the first time this year! And swap ladder positions with Norwood, who now sit on the bottom.
- Balwyn and East Ringwood both have important wins against fellow top 5 teams. Those 2 have now skipped away from the rest and look to have locked down the top 2 positions on the ladder.
- If there was any minuscule hope Doncaster East could turn their season around in the 2nd half of the year, its gone. They couldn't get anywhere near South Croydon.
- South Belgrave big 6 goal statement win against Mitcham, ending their hot streak.
- Mooroolbark only kick 1 goal for the day against a rebounding Park Orchards in a 101 point demolition job.
- The Div 1 top 5 is now set, just the positions to be finalised. I previously gave Mooroolbark a slight chance from 6th but after the weekend its clear they aren't at that standard. Especially since the 5th placed side is currently Mitcham.
- Mulgrave upset winners against Waverley and back in the top 5. They were 37 points down at half time. You don't know what you will get week to week with them but they are keeping everyone on their toes.
- Templestowe important win against Ringwood, both fighting for a top 5 spot.
- Despite some mid year recruits The Basin were unable to defeat Heathmont, who themselves had only won 2 games until yesterday. Round 14 V Lilydale looks to be their next realistic chance unless they can pull off an upset.
- In Div 3 all the favourites won with basically the top 5 defeating the bottom 5 teams.
- The closest game was UFTG defeating Fairpark by 9 points. Time is quickly running out for Fairpark to get off the bottom, they need to start turning solid performances into wins.
- Silvan losing by 70 and Warrandyte by 120, we might start to see some big blowouts for those 2 sides in the second half of the year, but both are still capable of upset wins especially on their home grounds.
- CNMLOC defeat Forest Hill and move off the bottom.
- Strong win by Scoresby against Kilsyth.
- Forest Hill have had a horror 2 weeks losing to both Nunawading and CNMLOC. They are now only % off bottom spot. There is a strong argument that both Nuna and CNMLOC are improving and trending up while Forest Hill are getting worse and trending down. Tough times.
- Apr 12, 2015
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Nothing like two field umpires arguing with each other. Priceless
Upsets everywhere across the divisions this week and plenty of important wins too.
- South Croydon stun local rival East Ringwood by 8 goals moving into the top 5
- Donny East break a 5 game losing streak defeating Noble Park
- Vermont have an important win against Blackburn
- Bayswater win their first game since April defeating Doncaster
- Montrose big winners against South Belgrave jumping to 2nd spot in the process
- The div 1 top 5 is finalised with Mitcham defeating Mooroolbark, just the positions to be worked out.
- Heathmont huge upset winners against Waverley by 11 goals
- Lilydale stun Croydon by 2 points and simultaneously end any hope The Basin had of avoiding relegation
- Ringwood 1 point winners against East Burwood, keeping their finals hopes alive
- Donvale destroy Surrey Park, i think many thought this would be a lot closer. Donvale clear favourites again
- FTG big winner in the local derby against UFTG, keeping their finals hopes alive as Upper and Oakleigh are faltering
- Fairpark finally break through for their second win for the year against Silvan and jump off the bottom of the ladder
- Coldstream big statement win against Knox away. Now a 3 game gap between 3rd and 4th
- Scoresby retain top spot with an important win against Whitehorse
Which game?
I saw it years ago involving a poster on this forum in a game in the VAFA! They continued through the half time break.
- Apr 12, 2015
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EB v Ringwood. This went on, one refused to walk off with the other. Maybe more to come from the spat.
Ive seen it a few times over the years. It can be frustrating if umpires have very different ways of interpreting the rules.
I saw one in particular at least 15 years ago where one umpire paid in the back and another holding the ball and it was simultaneous. One team took the ball and played on advantage and kicked a goal. The other umpire was trying to pay a 25 metre penalty the other way. A lot a whistles being blown and it was a little farcical for a minute.
The goal stood, the goal umpires waved their flags and the ball went back to the centre.
- Apr 11, 2015
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- Cill Chainnigh
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They were probably tired and irritable after having to umpire the two's and then the one's.
- Apr 12, 2015
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More to their altercation than that. I little birdie tells me one has lodged an official complaint.
Without knowing the details, can’t say I’m surprised. The whole umpiring situation (all local leagues, it’s not an EFNL problem) is a powder keg. The standard of umpiring is appalling as there just isn’t enough of them and the experienced umpires have left.
Umpires are officiating way above where they should be which will just burn them out quickly. They’re not up to it, the abuse follows and it ruins them.
Across the board we have umpires who belong in the upper reaches of junior footy looking after senior games - and more than one game a day.
It is atrocious and only getting worse.
It’s time for AFL to fix it properly. Stop with the nice statements and good intentions. Fix it. Spend what you need to in order to have the right, experienced people involved to officiate and to bring through each new generation.
You ask the footy community to respect them, why don’t you bloody start to respect them by paying them properly for the job they do and bringing back the people needed to do the job properly.
There is plenty of money at all levels of footy and it will just have to be paid for.
This really went downhill after COVID. That was three bloody years ago. Get off your arses and out of your offices, see what’s happening and ****ing fix it.
Umpires are officiating way above where they should be which will just burn them out quickly. They’re not up to it, the abuse follows and it ruins them.
Across the board we have umpires who belong in the upper reaches of junior footy looking after senior games - and more than one game a day.
It is atrocious and only getting worse.
It’s time for AFL to fix it properly. Stop with the nice statements and good intentions. Fix it. Spend what you need to in order to have the right, experienced people involved to officiate and to bring through each new generation.
You ask the footy community to respect them, why don’t you bloody start to respect them by paying them properly for the job they do and bringing back the people needed to do the job properly.
There is plenty of money at all levels of footy and it will just have to be paid for.
This really went downhill after COVID. That was three bloody years ago. Get off your arses and out of your offices, see what’s happening and ****ing fix it.
- Oct 5, 2004
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I couldn’t agree more Bunk. The situation with umpiring is at the crossroads and all we are seeing is this continued messages of making umpiring more attractive and growing participation numbers. How about we try and improve the overall standard of officiating.
How about we coach and develop umpires better so they are equipped with the skills, knowledge and expertise to officiate their games. Also asking umpires to umpire two games in a day is impacting on the ability of umpires to effectively do their job. Why can’t clubs in metropolitan leagues such as the EFNL have club appointed umpires as has occurred in country leagues for years. Having to do this for what is relatively poor remuneration turns any prospective umpire off along with existing umpires who can be better paid working in other roles, especially those that are trade based.
Another issue is the quality of coaching of umpires. Unfortunately whilst many coaches are well intentioned, they are far from well equipped or experienced to be good coaches. They are just appointed to roles well above their level of ability due to there being no one else available.
I have watched a little bit of EFNL footy this year and the standard of umpiring is as bad as I have ever seen it. I have heard the excuse the problem with umpiring is COVID related but surely this argument has well and truly past its use by date. I am sure an increase in remuneration will help in attracting new umpires, but there are many other issues that need to be attended to in order to improve umpiring at community levels of football.
Courtesy of Donvale Facebook, the 1996 Grand Final… the good old days when some D1 clubs simply hoovered up AFL, VFL talent and just plundered the best players from other clubs around them.
Still goes on but times have changed for the better, hopefully authorities keep it up with further tweaks.
- Dec 12, 2022
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Todd Power played in 9 straight grand finals!
Geez there is some EDFL royalty there... Including my first even under 10's coach!
It just struck me as such a great example of the amazing culture of performance that Vermont built over many decades and shows why their club should be celebrated and revered.
Just from their own commentary in this side we have
Stevan Jackson from Richmond
David Morrison from 3x AFL clubs
Mark Brindley “crossed from” Mitcham
Kris Barlow from Scoresby
Paul Barlow from Richmond
Andrew Smith from Mulgrave
Dale Chapman from Mulgrave
Michael Winter from Sydney
Todd Power from Wantirna South
Wayne Daly from Collegians
Steve Cochrane from Richmond
Chris Henderson from South Croydon
John Brinkkotter from Sydney
Just the 13 players signed with the fat chequebook in that years side, probably the least during that period and why they lost the GF.
What an amazing club, how have they had so much success?
As that young Vermont nimrod said before the GF last year, everybody just dislikes Vermont because we are always so good.
Bring in a points system and old 4th Div Rowville roll em for a flag.
Now recruiting at U15s for more one pointers, go Eagles!
Just from their own commentary in this side we have
Stevan Jackson from Richmond
David Morrison from 3x AFL clubs
Mark Brindley “crossed from” Mitcham
Kris Barlow from Scoresby
Paul Barlow from Richmond
Andrew Smith from Mulgrave
Dale Chapman from Mulgrave
Michael Winter from Sydney
Todd Power from Wantirna South
Wayne Daly from Collegians
Steve Cochrane from Richmond
Chris Henderson from South Croydon
John Brinkkotter from Sydney
Just the 13 players signed with the fat chequebook in that years side, probably the least during that period and why they lost the GF.
What an amazing club, how have they had so much success?
As that young Vermont nimrod said before the GF last year, everybody just dislikes Vermont because we are always so good.
Bring in a points system and old 4th Div Rowville roll em for a flag.
Now recruiting at U15s for more one pointers, go Eagles!
/sarcasm
- Apr 12, 2006
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Festini was mooroolbark iirc. Galaxy Coleman had a fine job at collex that involved much cash for little work!
Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com
Interesting stories doing the rounds on this one.
For starters one of the umpires can’t even run - he walked around and didn’t leave one of the 50m arcs for the whole last quarter. If injured I totally understand, if not then he can’t be umpiring.
But the other umpire accused him of simply being lazy and leaving all the work to him. Hence the argument.
Also a suggestion that the stationary umpire has a connection to Ringwood and looked after them in the last quarter. I will say that one sounds like grapevine stuff and not really believable.
I have no idea whether there is a connection but i still have no idea why the league does this. Its happened plenty of times over the years with ex players, life members or family members of players officiating games they shouldn't be.
Its not worth the trouble or the perception it causes.
