Of the ageing champions, who was the best?

[Gunnar Longshanks]

Be interesting how Hird would have gone if he didnt have so many injury problems - particularly through 97-99

Or do you mean to say, "Hird would have been #1 if he hadn't been injured"?

 

[whattagun07]

perhaps the one of the greatest displays of football i have seen was back in 04 when hird single handedly got the bombers over the line against west coast. something like 15 touches and a few clearances in the last quarter, and the winning goal. im a crows supporter (impartial) and i tipped west coast, but i was jumping around my living room after what i had seen.
voss and hird top 2

 

[Albo's opinion]

1) Voss- his best is the best i have seen, watching him shoot off a 30 metre bullet handball while wearing an opposition player as a scarf was unbeleivable. just an example of some things he did regularly from 01-03.

2) Buckley- buckley was collingwood for a while. he was so good that the team result usually hinged on his personal performance. best kick of the footy i have seen.

 

[Blues_Man]

perhaps the one of the greatest displays of football i have seen was back in 04 when hird single handedly got the bombers over the line against west coast. something like 15 touches and a few clearances in the last quarter, and the winning goal. im a crows supporter (impartial) and i tipped west coast, but i was jumping around my living room after what i had seen.
voss and hird top 2

Nothing personal but you are too young to remember the older players in their prime ..you would have been 10 years old in 99 when Kouta was winning a Preliminary final almost off his own boot.

 

[GuyIncognito]

1) Voss

2) Kouta probably played the greatest individual game of those listed.

Cheers

 

[sainter35]

Nothing personal but you are too young to remember the older players in their prime ..you would have been 10 years old in 99 when Kouta was winning a Preliminary final almost off his own boot.

I dont think hed remember Harveys Avg 30+ stats from 97/98 nor the three on the trot +40 games.......dont recall that being done since...nor do I think anyone genuinely recalls the reason multiple tags were bought into games was largely bought about Harvey being the first "gut running" midfielder.

As others have posted people go for the goals...I guess its obvious...etc and ignore those that set up play time and time again...

 

[kelvin_sheedy]

1. Hird and Voss.
2. Voss and Hird.

Pretty clear cut. The quality and quantity that these two have produced far outweighs anything the rest have done.

Please don't mention Nathan "Can't win an Anzac Medal" Buckley in the same breath.

If ever you wanted to compare the champions then it is as simple as looking at some of the games they have played.

Collingwood v Essendon Anzac Day - Hird 3 Anzac Medals - Buckley buckleys.

Collingwood v Lions GF - Voss gets the lions over the line in the last quarter where Buckley could not.

 

[tugga]

1: Hird
2: Voss

 

[Sedat!]

So what are you saying?

Do you think Grant is the pick of the bunch?

Or are you just making a general observation about KPPs?

If you reckon Grant was as "dominant" in that period as Kouta was 1999-2000, then you're kidding yourself.

Grant's '96 and '97 seasons were the equal of any played by anyone listed IMO. Seasons 98-00 were just a fraction below, but still amazingly brilliant and consistent. He missed the Brownlow by 1 vote in '96 and then polled 27 votes the following year. A master class in key position dominance.

It's apples with oranges anyway because you are comparing players with different skill sets. In '97 alone, Grant kicked almost 50 goals and had another 50+ goal assists in the season. He also had more effective short kicks than anyone else in the competition that year, and he's not even a midfielder. Amazing. He suffers by comparison only because he didn't play for a high profile club.

Nobody is right or wrong in this debate - it's good to see all the reasons put forward by passionate football fans.

 

[djlowz]

I can't believe that Harvey isn't getting recognized as much as the others! For mine he is number 1 for sure.. Followed by Hird, Voss and Buckley, it is so hard to seperate the 3 though. Here goes -

1. Harvey

2. Buckley
3. Hird
4. Voss

 

[Gunnar Longshanks]

Grant's '96 and '97 seasons were the equal of any played by anyone listed IMO.

Bollocks.

Kouta provided the first glimpse of the 21st century player. His form 99-00 set the benchmark for guys like Adam Goodes. Except Kouta was an even better athlete and won more contested footy.

Those two seasons were more dominant than anything Chris Grant ever produced. By an absolute country mile.

I'm staggered that Kouta doesn't have 60 per cent of the votes on question 2.

I would have him ahead of the field quite clearly on that score. He was incredible, and actually changed the game.

 

[Gunnar Longshanks]

I can't believe that Harvey isn't getting recognized as much as the others! For mine he is number 1 for sure.. Followed by Hird, Voss and Buckley, it is so hard to seperate the 3 though. Here goes -

1. Harvey

2. Buckley
3. Hird
4. Voss

On what criteria?

There were two questions asked.

 

[Sedat!]

Bollocks.

Kouta provided the first glimpse of the 21st century player. His form 99-00 set the benchmark for guys like Adam Goodes. Except Kouta was an even better athlete and won more contested footy.

Those two seasons were more dominant than anything Chris Grant ever produced. By an absolute country mile.

Firstly, how can an opinion be "bollocks"? Personal opinions are neither right nor wrong. An abject example of the bog standard BigFooty etiquette there. I thought the self-proclaimed moral guardian of truth on this site was above that sort of juvenile logic. Guess not.

Secondly, unlike my post which stated some actual statistical evidence to validate my summation, what actual evidence did you use to state your case? Precisely none, that's what. All you used were generic platitudes such as Kouta is the prototype "21st century player". Gibberish. Next time use some evidence and factual analysis to state your case.

Which leads to your conclusion that Kouta's 99-00 seasons were better than Grants 96-97 seasons "by a country mile". Without the benefit of any statistical data, it is a laughable conclusion to make. Now go back and do some homework if you want your opinion to be taken seriously in relation to this topic.

For someone who is so clearly anal about using evidence to prove fact, this is one of the most poorly constructed posts I've seen in recent memory.

 

[sainter35]

is this thing still going?

Mods stop the rot - its only a vehicle so Bummerlongshanks can "try" and demonstrate an IQ above dyslexia...

move it to the "who cares" board PLEASE!!

Sedat - waste of time.

 

[Gunnar Longshanks]

I suspect there are a lot of kids in this thread who can't remember Kouta's peak.

 

[Azzballz Deluxe]

Hird/Harvey

Voss/Buckley

 

[incubi]

Im not going to say that grants peaks were the highest, but they werent far off and he did it in the two hardest positions on the ground, CHB and CHF. If they had have taken goal assist stats in the late 90's Grant would have won the stat or been close every year.

If Paul Hudson could sheppard we would have been in the grand final in 97 and it would have been because of Grant. (i wont mention a certian dubious goal umpiring decision).

No player on that list has been as important to their club than Grant has been at the Bulldogs. Smith aswell as a list of players were going to leave at the end of 96 if grant hadnt resigned. Also Grant has always been there to do whatever the team needed, whether putting his body on the line in the backline or being the target in the forward line.

 

[bigpapagman]

matthew richardson.

 

[MinerBoy]

I often wonder why Lockett has him in his top 2 players of all time..then I realise hes probably been on the receiving end of enough of Harveys "dont hurt you" kicks....FFS watch a game!

Is this the same Lockett who is so much better than Dunstall because he always had to put up with shit delivery as compared to Dunstalls silver platter service?

 

[MinerBoy]

1. N Buckley - I reckon would have played maybe 10-15 games in his career that I would consider to be poor.

2. R Harvey - As stated before in this thread, his brownlow years were just dominant.

Shane Crawford's Brownlow season of 1999 was as dominant as any in recent memory, including the two of Harvey.

 

[MinerBoy]

Wasn't it Malcolm Blight who said he wasn't worried about Harvey's impact in the 1997 GF? He ended up with 36 touches I think and had little impact on the game. Champion footballer, but I'd never have him in the same class as Buckley and Voss purely because while I think he was consistent, I don't think he had the ability to turn a game on it's head individually the way those two, or even Kouta in his prime did. Saints fans may disagree but I'd fear 30 Buckley touches over 30 Harvey touches without a doubt.

As for premierships, I agree on a whole it's unfair to use it as a criteria, but then you have a guy like Voss who was probably the difference between winning and losing the 2002 flag in that final term.

I'd prefer 15 Darren Jarman touches.

 

[MinerBoy]

crap - kouta has NO -repeat NO - place in this thread against these champions - this peak nonsense is irrelevant when talking about champions - they are just good all the time - not just occassional bursts like Kouta

Adrian McAdam had a pretty good peak also. Probably better than Kouta's, although it only lasted about 9 weeks, which is only half of Kouta's.

 

[MinerBoy]

He was absolutely fu*kin' amazing!

I felt privileged to watch those games live and know I was witnessing something special and seeing a Brownlow Medallist in action.
It was incredible to see a guy standing 5-9 nearly carry his team into the finals on his own back.

I'm not sure the kids of today realise how good Crawford was from 1998-2003, esp 1999.

Yep, I was at most of those too. He dominated. Really tore the Cats one at Waverley one night and again against the Swans in the last ever game at Waverley.

 

[Dandy_GO]

For #1, I'll take the two 8 time All-Australians thanks. Ricciuto and Harvey.

#2 Kouta.

 

[Cassius_Clay]

1. Buckley easily

2. Kouta/Hird