(Opinion) Is Darrel Baldock the worst Australian football hall of fame "legend" of all time?

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Guardian Hawk said:
I think the thread is referencing HOF legends specifically, not just normal inductees. Peter Bell is not a legend (and never will be). If it was counting everyone in the HOF, there would be plenty of names "worse" than Baldock.

With that said, I think Cazaly is the 'least credentialed' legend but I hate the concept of picking a 'worst' from an honorary, elite group who added so much to the game.
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Fair point. I think the term legends carries a wider connotation. Cazaly is remembered for his marking and the song didn't just pick him for no reason. Sure, he may not have the awards of other players but many innovative players who do things no-one else did before fit into that category. Baldock belongs there, maybe there needs to be more legends, but he belongs.
 
Guardian Hawk said:
I think the thread is referencing HOF legends specifically, not just normal inductees. Peter Bell is not a legend (and never will be). If it was counting everyone in the HOF, there would be plenty of names "worse" than Baldock.

With that said, I think Cazaly is the 'least credentialed' legend but I hate the concept of picking a 'worst' from an honorary, elite group who added so much to the game.
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Fair point, Bell wasn't inducted as a legend. But I don't think he belongs in the normal inductees either. Again, Bell was a very good player, but I don't see him as worthy on that list. To me there's more issues with the bigger inductees list than the legends.
 
South of the Yarra said:
If he was that great why was his second best season only 103 goals? When Pratt had kicked 150 around 15 years earlier. Coventry kicked 124 in 1929.
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Averaged 5.48 goals per season and his career was cut down in his prime due to injury. If he plays 200 games he easily kicks 1,000 goals. Higher goals per game than Locket, Dunstable, Coventry, Mohr, Pratt etc.

I know we're all trying to bring our fresh hot takes, but this is just... wow.
 
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TerryWallet said:
I enjoyed the mentions of Laurie Nash in your post. He is a character that has always intrigued me. He was a favorite of my ol man who was South born and bred although he barracked for Carlton because his aunt was a Blue and started taking him to games as a kid.

Jack Dyer used to tell a great Nash story. He said he was so good , and so cocky, that one particular day that Nash was tearing the Tiges apart from CHF that Dyer took it upon himself to stand on the mark every time Nash had a shot at goal to try to abuse and intimidate him. As Dyer told it, Nash thought the abuse hilarious and proceeded to ask Jack which foot and which type of kick he'd like him to kick each time. Jack, and Nash, reckon he kicked goals that day with every kick imaginable, on either foot and Jack left the ground hoarse.

Nash was the GOAT according to himself, and according to a lot of ol timers he could have actually been one of the alltime greats if he took things more seriously. One of Australia's best sportsmen and scallywags.
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The best Nash story was the one about nailing Don Bradman's boots to the changeroom floor. Not a great cricket career move apparently and the immodest comment that was in 100 Seasons of Australian Football "The best player? I look at him every time I shave".
 
Back One Out said:
Which major sport DOESN’T have furious debate about which players are the best and who should be in the “all star” team?

It’s what sports fans like to argue about. People love to pick their World XI’s in cricket or soccer. Or make pointless comparisons of superstars from different eras: Bradman vs Tendulkar, Kingston Town vs Winx, Montana vs Brady, Pele vs Maradona vs Messi...

Seems perfectly natural to me.

I snicker to myself when I see people posting in the All Australian threads with “who cares” comments. Why would anyone even bother posting that? If I’m not interested in something, I move onto something else.
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Not sure there's much discussion re Brady and Bradman.
 
South of the Yarra said:
If he was that great why was his second best season only 103 goals? When Pratt had kicked 150 around 15 years earlier. Coventry kicked 124 in 1929.
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Coupla things on Coleman that saw him considered a legend.

As we know, the game is always changing. There's eras where scoring is high and spearheads pour in goals, and others where they don't.

Coleman played in one such era. Between 1940 and 1968 - that's nearly 30 years, a few generations of players - only one player kicked the ton... Coleman, he did it three times.

Coventry did it first in 1929 and it happened 12 times in the next 11 years. From there it's pretty clear tactics changed and oppositions did something about these superstars kicking huge bags and winning games off their own boot. And a lot of that was very dirty tactics, taking advantage of what the single umpire didn't see - what Coleman put up with behind play is legendary.

Nobody did it again until 1968 when Hudson came along... then it went nuts again, with 38 tons over the next 30 years, until team defence came along and suffocated the spearhead.

(Interestingly too, the second umpire was introduced in the 1970s)

It was a similar period to now, where only Franklin has kicked 100 in nearly 20 years, and his was 15 years ago.

Coleman was like a bloke coming along right now and kicking 100 goals. In his first season in the league. Then doing it again in 2 of the next 3 years. Then kicking 97 the next year.

Then having 42 to his name after 6 games the next year before bang, career-ending injury and never lacing them up again. Having just turned 25. That's when a footballer's prime is starting.

He was robbed of his prime years yet is still the only player (along with the legendary Hudson) to average over 5 goals a game in league history - without the prime of his career, in the most unfriendly era for spearheads in the league's history.



Oh yeah, then when Dick Reynolds quit as coach in 1961, Coleman was persuaded to apply for the gig despite never coaching before. He coached for 7 seasons, winning 68%, which is second all-time behind Chris Scott for coaches with 100+ games. He won two flags, in 1962 and 1965... Essendon hadn't won one wince 1950, and wouldn't win one again until 1984.
 
I'm Richmond fan. I hate Essendon. I'm fine with the most goals kicked in the season being named after him. I never saw him play but his playing stats alone are really impressive. His last season was cut short after 6 games and 42 goals. That's on pace for a 154 goal season.
 
Richo83 said:
Fair point, Bell wasn't inducted as a legend. But I don't think he belongs in the normal inductees either. Again, Bell was a very good player, but I don't see him as worthy on that list. To me there's more issues with the bigger inductees list than the legends.
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It has been shown that to get into the HOF, Bickley is looked on as the standard required.

From that standard, by looking at a players performance over their career, Bell >>>> Bickley.

That’s putting it in perspective.
 
masai tu said:
It has been shown that to get into the HOF, Bickley is looked on as the standard required.

From that standard, by looking at a players performance over their career, Bell >>>> Bickley.

That’s putting it in perspective.
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Bickley? Wow. I suppose Shane Edwards gets in then. I get that he was the captain of two SA AFL flags, but still.

I agree that Bell is better than Bickley and the latter is probably a better example. I literally just skimmed through an (extensive and weirdly inconsistent) list and found Bell. If Bickley and Judd are ok the same HOF level then it doesn't mean much.
 

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Bunk Moreland said:
Coupla things on Coleman that saw him considered a legend.

As we know, the game is always changing. There's eras where scoring is high and spearheads pour in goals, and others where they don't.

Coleman played in one such era. Between 1940 and 1968 - that's nearly 30 years, a few generations of players - only one player kicked the ton... Coleman, he did it three times.

Coventry did it first in 1929 and it happened 12 times in the next 11 years. From there it's pretty clear tactics changed and oppositions did something about these superstars kicking huge bags and winning games off their own boot. And a lot of that was very dirty tactics, taking advantage of what the single umpire didn't see - what Coleman put up with behind play is legendary.

Nobody did it again until 1968 when Hudson came along... then it went nuts again, with 38 tons over the next 30 years, until team defence came along and suffocated the spearhead.

(Interestingly too, the second umpire was introduced in the 1970s)

It was a similar period to now, where only Franklin has kicked 100 in nearly 20 years, and his was 15 years ago.

Coleman was like a bloke coming along right now and kicking 100 goals. In his first season in the league. Then doing it again in 2 of the next 3 years. Then kicking 97 the next year.

Then having 42 to his name after 6 games the next year before bang, career-ending injury and never lacing them up again. Having just turned 25. That's when a footballer's prime is starting.

He was robbed of his prime years yet is still the only player (along with the legendary Hudson) to average over 5 goals a game in league history - without the prime of his career, in the most unfriendly era for spearheads in the league's history.



Oh yeah, then when Dick Reynolds quit as coach in 1961, Coleman was persuaded to apply for the gig despite never coaching before. He coached for 7 seasons, winning 68%, which is second all-time behind Chris Scott for coaches with 100+ games. He won two flags, in 1962 and 1965... Essendon hadn't won one wince 1950, and wouldn't win one again until 1984.
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Succinctly put.

Unfortunately, SotY will still attempt to stat you to death whilst completely avoiding the the messiness of variables (probably to help boost Coventry’s credentials in the greatest FF debate). Coleman is a true legend because most of what we know of him is pure legend. Few others in the history of our game have captured the footballing public’s imagination like he did.
 
Ian Stewart's a Legend and if his Open Mike episode's anything to go by, Stewart seems to think he was barely worthy of being on the same ground as Doc.

Sometimes you've just got to take an old-timer's contemporaries' word for it. Every time Baldock's name comes up, they seem to be in awe of what he was capable of.
 
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Richo83 said:
Fair point, Bell wasn't inducted as a legend. But I don't think he belongs in the normal inductees either. Again, Bell was a very good player, but I don't see him as worthy on that list. To me there's more issues with the bigger inductees list than the legends.
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surely nobody is suggesting Bell.as a Hall of Famer
 
Bell to me was almost number 2 to Carey in the North premiership and GF sides, I think he was stiff not to have a Norm Smith (4 goals, 31 touches)
Archer had the toughness but still just a flanker, Stevens and Simpson behind him, Harvey ended up a better legacy (record games), Longmire and McKernan shone very bright but briefly. Schwass more early-mid 90s.
Bell then captained Dockers to their first two finals campaigns in 03/06

96, 99 Premiership
00, 01, 03, 04 BnF
99, 03 AA
Captain 02, 03, 04, 05, 06
286 games 250 goals

Makes the cut for mine

Also the odd time someone brings up Dean Kemp in the Hall deserves a chuckle of contempt

92, 94 Premiership
94 Norm Smith
92 AA
92 Best and Fairest
Captain 01
243 games, 117 goals

He was only behind Matera and ahead of arguably Jakovich in the famous 90s Eagles
 
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The_Eagles said:
Bell to me was almost number 2 to Carey in the North premiership and GF sides, I think he was stiff not to have a Norm Smith (4 goals, 31 touches)
Archer had the toughness but still just a flanker, Stevens and Simpson behind him, Harvey ended up a better legacy (record games), Longmire and McKernan shone very bright but briefly. Schwass more early-mid 90s.
Bell then captained Dockers to their first two finals campaigns in 03/06

96, 99 Premiership
00, 01, 03, 04 BnF
99, 03 AA
Captain 02, 03, 04, 05, 06
286 games 250 goals

Makes the cut for mine

Also the odd time someone brings up Dean Kemp in the Hall deserves a chuckle of contempt

92, 94 Premiership
94 Norm Smith
92 AA
92 Best and Fairest
Captain 01
243 games, 117 goals

He was only behind Matera and ahead of arguably Jakovich in the famous 90s Eagles
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I think you could quite easily make the case that Peter Bell comfortably had a better career than Glenn Archer, but I don't see people whinging about Archer being in the hall of fame.
 
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(Opinion) Is Darrel Baldock the worst Australian football hall of fame "legend" of all time?

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