(Opinion) Is Darrel Baldock the worst Australian football hall of fame "legend" of all time?

[lumpinee]

Bell to me was almost number 2 to Carey in the North premiership and GF sides, I think he was stiff not to have a Norm Smith (4 goals, 31 touches)
Archer had the toughness but still just a flanker, Stevens and Simpson behind him, Harvey ended up a better legacy (record games), Longmire and McKernan shone very bright but briefly. Schwass more early-mid 90s.
Bell then captained Dockers to their first two finals campaigns in 03/06

96, 99 Premiership
00, 01, 03, 04 BnF
99, 03 AA
Captain 02, 03, 04, 05, 06
286 games 250 goals

Makes the cut for mine

Also the odd time someone brings up Dean Kemp in the Hall deserves a chuckle of contempt

92, 94 Premiership
94 Norm Smith
92 AA
92 Best and Fairest
Captain 01
243 games, 117 goals

He was only behind Matera and ahead of arguably Jakovich in the famous 90s Eagles

frendo,Jakovich is the best CHB of the past 50 years,kemp a dime a dozen mid who probably never had an opponent 1/2 the time
McIntosh.Matera & Jako along with McKenna & Worsfolds leading by example the cornerstones of that dominant Eagles era,Kemp a good player no doubt

 

[davefromjerra]

Baldock could run bouncing two balls simultaneously in both hands.

And drop kick 50 metres with both feet.

 

[The_Eagles]

frendo,Jakovich is the best CHB of the past 50 years,kemp a dime a dozen mid who probably never had an opponent 1/2 the time
McIntosh.Matera & Jako along with McKenna & Worsfolds leading by example the cornerstones of that dominant Eagles era,Kemp a good player no doubt

Roos was better than Jakovich, 91-95 Jakovich was superlative, and dudded of an AA or two. After his knee recon he was plodding albeit very strong.
In my view the midfield brigade win the matches, Matera then Kemp, then Mainwaring with Turley, Pyke and Evans rotating could match it with most if not all 90-96. Dime a dozen would be someone like Andrew Thompson of the Saints, Justin Murphy of Carlton

 

[lumpinee]

Roos better than GJ ? never could see it in real time myself Roos was above average agreed,but GJ the best CHB of the past 50 along with Peter Knights

 

[Freddy Swift]

What a nasty little thread this was that someone started. Darrel Baldock was a champion.

 

[TiggyTig]

Royce Hart was Jeremy Cameron 50 years ago. He was a champion and a match winner.

Royce was the original big game player. Jeremy finally got a few goals in a belting. Don't compare the pair

 

[masai tu]

jeremy cameron and Royce in the same sentence,OMG

Royce played like a champion, week in, week out.

Cameron plays like a champion, now and then.

 

[Noidnadroj]

Averaged 5.48 goals per season and his career was cut down in his prime due to injury. If he plays 200 games he easily kicks 1,000 goals. Higher goals per game than Locket, Dunstable, Coventry, Mohr, Pratt etc.

I know we're all trying to bring our fresh hot takes, but this is just... wow.

I think his lack of longevity is a factor. For example Allen Jakovich kicked 201 goals at Melbourne in 47 games at an average of 4.28. He left Melbourne in 1994 in his peak age as a 26yo. We don’t just say “if he played 235 games he would have kicked 1,000 goals”.

And goal averages generally come down as someone’s career goes on - you can’t just assume they’ll maintain their goal average they had at the peak of their powers.

Having said that given his goal average and the ‘legend’ he was at the time I’m happy for him to be in. But I can understand those who might question his place as a legend.


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[Richo83]

I think his lack of longevity is a factor. For example Allen Jakovich kicked 201 goals at Melbourne in 47 games at an average of 4.28. He left Melbourne in 1994 in his peak age as a 26yo. We don’t just say “if he played 235 games he would have kicked 1,000 goals”.

And goal averages generally come down as someone’s career goes on - you can’t just assume they’ll maintain their goal average they had at the peak of their powers.

Having said that given his goal average and the ‘legend’ he was at the time I’m happy for him to be in. But I can understand those who might question his place as a legend.


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Longevity shouldn't be a factor though. He played in a mostly amateur era where he would have had a day job, and his career-ending injury wouldn't be one I'm today's game. It's why longevity can't be compared in amateur and professional eras. It's not fair to judge him given science wasn't what it was today.

Also Jackovich is a poor example. We'r e talking about 537 goals versus 201. Let's also not forget that Jackovich played in an era where teams averaged 100 points roughly. Coleman's era, teams scored 70-80 points on average, a little to the same as today. Coleman's records are crazy not just because of his average, but the fact that he was scoring in such a low socring era. As an example, in 1952, teams averaged 70.3 points in the home and away season. Coleman kicked 103 which considering how much teams were scoring was really hard. That's why context matters.

He also coached two flags and has a great coaching record. Again, he comfortably sits where he belongs.

 

[Partridge]

Anyone relying on Stats are clearly uninformed.

The relevance of AA from that area is very limited as it was selected purely from the carnival and Baldock was selected in 1961 and 1966, with no carnival (or AA team) in between. There were only 3 AA teams during the 60s.

Baldock was simply a superb footballer that the OP never saw play.

A few older fans I know (non-St.Kilda fans too) said he was the best player they ever saw.

 

[melbun]

I saw Baldock play. Beautiful kick and knew where the ball would fall.
Hassa Mann was better.

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

After spotting this thread, I now know why I don't spend much time on the main board. I saw Baldock play, an absolute champion. Played CHF at only 5'10" and if he didn't win the ball in the air, he was cat-like on the ground.

 

[FredLeDeux]

I saw Baldock play. Beautiful kick and knew where the ball would fall.
Hassa Mann was better.

No he ****ing wasn't.

 

[FredLeDeux]

A few older fans I know (non-St.Kilda fans too) said he was the best player they ever saw.

He was the only player I ever saw who could match GAS for consistently knowing ahead of time where the ball and opposition players were going to be, and taking advantage of it.

 

[The hands of stone]

Terrible thread . One of my distant relatives played against him for a decade , said he was in the best 3 players he ever saw .

 

[franjon]

Playing career: 119 games. 237 goals. 2 times All Australian. 1966 Premiership captain.

Coaching career: 18 wins. 44 losses.

If Barry Breen does not kick that behind Baldock is not elevated.

Is Darrel Baldock the worst Australian Football Hall of Fame Legend of all time?

Is this a pisstake?

 

[Bulldog Joe]

I saw Baldock play. Beautiful kick and knew where the ball would fall.
Hassa Mann was better.

Hassa Mann was a good player but only a delusional Melbourne supporter could think he was better than Baldock.

Half there own supporters would have just said "Go 29 - Good player than number 29."

 

[SSrixon]

Coupla things on Coleman that saw him considered a legend.

As we know, the game is always changing. There's eras where scoring is high and spearheads pour in goals, and others where they don't.

Coleman played in one such era. Between 1940 and 1968 - that's nearly 30 years, a few generations of players - only one player kicked the ton... Coleman, he did it three times.

Coventry did it first in 1929 and it happened 12 times in the next 11 years. From there it's pretty clear tactics changed and oppositions did something about these superstars kicking huge bags and winning games off their own boot. And a lot of that was very dirty tactics, taking advantage of what the single umpire didn't see - what Coleman put up with behind play is legendary.

Nobody did it again until 1968 when Hudson came along... then it went nuts again, with 38 tons over the next 30 years, until team defence came along and suffocated the spearhead.

(Interestingly too, the second umpire was introduced in the 1970s)

It was a similar period to now, where only Franklin has kicked 100 in nearly 20 years, and his was 15 years ago.

Coleman was like a bloke coming along right now and kicking 100 goals. In his first season in the league. Then doing it again in 2 of the next 3 years. Then kicking 97 the next year.

Then having 42 to his name after 6 games the next year before bang, career-ending injury and never lacing them up again. Having just turned 25. That's when a footballer's prime is starting.

He was robbed of his prime years yet is still the only player (along with the legendary Hudson) to average over 5 goals a game in league history - without the prime of his career, in the most unfriendly era for spearheads in the league's history.



Oh yeah, then when Dick Reynolds quit as coach in 1961, Coleman was persuaded to apply for the gig despite never coaching before. He coached for 7 seasons, winning 68%, which is second all-time behind Chris Scott for coaches with 100+ games. He won two flags, in 1962 and 1965... Essendon hadn't won one wince 1950, and wouldn't win one again until 1984.

Was going to post this Coleman scored 3 100's in a defensive era, one of those years he went at over 6 goals a game. Both grandfathers (neither were Essendon supporters) both said Coleman was the best they had seen. The rationale was that the gap between him and the next best player in the league at the time was massive, probably the biggest they had seen.

 

[aussierulesrules]

The fact that a dozen have been indicted since Baldock was seen fit to be inducted- by the expert panel- probably suggests that he’s nowhere near the “worst”.

This may thus be in the conversation for the “worst” thread on BigFooty.

 

[Partridge]

He was the only player I ever saw who could match GAS for consistently knowing ahead of time where the ball and opposition players were going to be, and taking advantage of it.

Funny you say that, I know an older Richmond supporter who nominates Ablett as the best he's seen. Just ahead of Baldock.

 

[Osho]

It's times like this I wonder about more censorship of the stupid.

 

[Cursed Cat]

Roos better than GJ ? never saw it in real time Roos was above average agreed,but GJ the best CHB of the past 50 along with Peter Knights

Chris Mew right up alongside Knights, Jakovich and Roos - Roos a little more of a utility type from the mid-point of his career on, too, while the first half of his career was spent propping up a dying Fitzroy. Knights up forward is a bit overlooked, he was very good at FF circa 1985.

 

[lumpinee]

Chris Mew right up alongside Knights, Jakovich and Roos - Roos a little more of a utility type from the mid-point of his career on, too, while the first half of his career was spent propping up a dying Fitzroy. Knights up forward is a bit overlooked, he was very good at FF circa 1985.

Definitely,Knights was actually being thrown up FWD from early on in his career,kicked 3 in the '78 GF iirc and 6 in a final early 80's,possibly '83

 

[Cursed Cat]

Definitely,Knights was actually being thrown up FWD from early on in his career,kicked 3 in the '78 GF iirc and 6 in a final early 80's,possibly '83

wonder who Hawthorn fans generally think is the better CHB of Mew and Knights? Pretty sure Mew got the gig in their TOtC side. Knights obviously the more entertaining player of the two, and a champion in his own right. But Mew was rock. solid.

 

[Partridge]

Was going to post this Coleman scored 3 100's in a defensive era, one of those years he went at over 6 goals a game. Both grandfathers (neither were Essendon supporters) both said Coleman was the best they had seen. The rationale was that the gap between him and the next best player in the league at the time was massive, probably the biggest they had seen.

Have said this many many times. My Dad was a lifelong Geelong supporter and not prone to hyperbole.

He said until Gary Ablett senior, the best player he'd ever seen was either Coleman or Bob Skilton. Couldn't split them.