News Orazio Fantasia departs for Carlton

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Mootsy said:
At their best, Orazio would kick 4 goals and Joe 3 or visa versa and both played dynamic roles across the ground.

You just need him to have good fitness levels and game time.
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I admire orazios ability to culture an undeserved mythical standing that defies fact.

He’s kicked 4 or more goals 10 times in his career. That’s hardly an expected level.

At port he’s going to be judged, and judged quite harshly as we do, on his actual output.

Hopefully he’s up to the task cause our supporters aren’t so forgiving.
 
philthy05 said:
He’s kicked 4 or more goals 10 times in his career. That’s hardly an expected level.
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I think you're using the wrong stat here to prove your point. To have kicked 4 goals or more 10 times out of only 80 games ~ 12.5%, so 3 times a season if fit, well that's a good stat. That's a pretty high rate and equals a few big games a year.

Rozee's done that once in 39 games. ~ 2.5%
R Gray since returning from his knee has done it 15 times in 167 games ~ 8%
 
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PowerLil said:
Yes. At Footy Park. Suffered ongoing neck issues after that incident. Very nasty.
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One of the scariest, heart-in-mouth things I've ever seen on a football field.
 

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philthy05 said:
I admire orazios ability to culture an undeserved mythical standing that defies fact.

He’s kicked 4 or more goals 10 times in his career. That’s hardly an expected level.

At port he’s going to be judged, and judged quite harshly as we do, on his actual output.

Hopefully he’s up to the task cause our supporters aren’t so forgiving.
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What the hell! Are you crazy? Considering his on-again off-again career, that is a fantastic stat! You are just trying to pull out nonsense now to justify your bias against him.
 
Coobk001 said:
I think you're using the wrong stat here to prove your point. To have kicked 4 goals or more 10 times out of only 80 games ~ 12.5%, so 3 times a season if fit, well that's a good stat. That's a pretty high rate and equals a few big games a year.

Rozee's done that once in 39 games. ~ 2.5%
R Gray since returning from his knee has done it 15 times in 167 games ~ 8%
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Tibbs said:
What the hell! Are you crazy? Considering his on-again off-again career, that is a fantastic stat! You are just trying to pull out nonsense now to justify your bias against him.
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The implication by the poster was that we could expect that kind of performance from orazio regularly.

he’s done it 10x in his career.

also rozee and gray are not pure forwards and gray has spent heaps of time in the midfield so they’re bad comparisons.

it probably measures up okay against other small forwards to be honest but it’s still not the standard of performance you get all the time if he’s produced it 10 times in the first 7 years of his career.

I think people need to strongly temper their expectations cause this is the perfect storm for creating an unrealistic expectation that will see him become a whipping boy even if he does reach a decent standard with us.
 
philthy05 said:
The implication by the poster was that we could expect that kind of performance from orazio regularly.

he’s done it 10x in his career.

also rozee and gray are not pure forwards and gray has spent heaps of time in the midfield so they’re bad comparisons.

it probably measures up okay against other small forwards to be honest but it’s still not the standard of performance you get all the time if he’s produced it 10 times in the first 7 years of his career.

I think people need to strongly temper their expectations cause this is the perfect storm for creating an unrealistic expectation that will see him become a whipping boy even if he does reach a decent standard with us.
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In my opinion if he does it once per season he will have been a huge plus. Personally I'm expecting similar output to Motlop.
Getting Fantasia should mean the end of seeing Farrell being used as a small forward which is another good thing. Not saying he couldn't play the role but I see him more as a out and out wingman. Just wish he'd get more of the pill. Young readers will misunderstand this.
 
Us against the rest said:
Jonathon Yerbury 13
Danny Morton 13
Chris Hall 13
Ben Eckermann 13
Mitch Farmer 13
Wade Thompson 37,13

I thought Morton was a handy player but yeah not much success with 13.
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I remember listening to a pre season match being broadcasted over the radio and the commentator mentioned that Danny M could have been saddling up for the 3-40 at Cheltenham. Hell that was a long time ago!
 
philthy05 said:
........

I think people need to strongly temper their expectations cause this is the perfect storm for creating an unrealistic expectation that will see him become a whipping boy even if he does reach a decent standard with us.
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Look I agree with the bold, but I actually dont see anyone here doing that, in fact, rather the opposite. Most posters here, including yourself, dont rate him, dont want him, and have unwillingly condescended to accepting him as a Port player.

On the other hand, there are a number of posters, who have considered his potential as being worth the risk of the cost to get him. To counterbalance all the negative stuff put forward against him, they have pointed to the positives ... but are then being painted as being "unrealistic."

This is nonsense Philthy05. I agree he could very well be a bust, or maybe become another "Motlop" as some have suggested, with invisible games dotted with the odd good game. On the other hand there is a lot to suggest that he might actually be a very good talent that has been wasted at Essendon, and could flourish if fully fit, being back home, and in our system.

Will he? ... the more I see, read & hear, the more I think he will. And probably a lot more importantly our list management team think so too. So the big question, will he? We will all have to wait and see, but it is really up to him IMO, he has to put in more that the half-assed pre-seasons he has put in at Essendon! Whatever the case, I dont have "unreal expectations," I merely think that he is definitely worth the risk!

And may I add, regardless of any any positives posted here on this board, OF will become a whipping boy if he fails ... thats a given.
 
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Tibbs said:
Look I agree with the bold, but I actually dont see anyone here doing that, in fact, rather the opposite. Most posters here, including yourself, dont rate him, dont want him, and have unwillingly condescended to accepting him as a Port player.

On the other hand, there are a number of posters, who have considered his potential as being with the risk of the cost to get him. To counterbalance all the negative stuff put forward against him, they have pointed to the positives ... but are then being painted as being "unrealistic."

This is nonsense Philthy05. I agree he could very well be a bust, or maybe become another "Motlop" as some have suggested, with invisible games dotted with the odd good game. On the other hand there is a lot to suggest that he might actually be a very good talent that has been wasted at Essendon, and could flourish if fully fit, being back home, and in our system.

Will he, the more I see, read & hear, the more I think he will. And probably a lot more importantly our list management team think so too. So the big question, will he? We will all have to wait and see, but it is really up to him IMO, he has to put in more that the half-assed pre-seasons he has put in at Essendon! Whatever the case, I dont have "unreal expectations," I merely think that he is definitely worth the risk!

And may I add, regardless of any any positives posted here on this board, OF will become a whipping boy if he fails ... thats a given.
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Well said - I totally agree with everything you have said
 
Us against the rest said:
Jonathon Yerbury 13
Danny Morton 13
Chris Hall 13
Ben Eckermann 13
Mitch Farmer 13
Wade Thompson 37,13

I thought Morton was a handy player but yeah not much success with 13.
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Seems like a tremendous idea to move Marshall into another number then 😏

It may be the making of him.
 
Tibbs said:
Look I agree with the bold, but I actually dont see anyone here doing that, in fact, rather the opposite. Most posters here, including yourself, dont rate him, dont want him, and have unwillingly condescended to accepting him as a Port player.

On the other hand, there are a number of posters, who have considered his potential as being with the risk of the cost to get him. To counterbalance all the negative stuff put forward against him, they have pointed to the positives ... but are then being painted as being "unrealistic."

This is nonsense Philthy05. I agree he could very well be a bust, or maybe become another "Motlop" as some have suggested, with invisible games dotted with the odd good game. On the other hand there is a lot to suggest that he might actually be a very good talent that has been wasted at Essendon, and could flourish if fully fit, being back home, and in our system.

Will he, the more I see, read & hear, the more I think he will. And probably a lot more importantly our list management team think so too. So the big question, will he? We will all have to wait and see, but it is really up to him IMO, he has to put in more that the half-assed pre-seasons he has put in at Essendon! Whatever the case, I dont have "unreal expectations," I merely think that he is definitely worth the risk!

And may I add, regardless of any any positives posted here on this board, OF will become a whipping boy if he fails ... thats a given.
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I did not say, nor have I ever said he will be a bust.

what I have done, and others with similar views, have questioned the propaganda surrounding Fantasia’s actual mythic status by pointing to his actual evidenced output, and suggested that expecting anything other than that is extremely optimistic.

time and time again we’ve been told he’s a 40 goal a year forward or he kicks bags of goals regularly and we can expect that when he’s fit.

the reality is he’s a 20 goal a season forward, because that’s the level he’s produced for the vast majority of his career, most of which on a dry track in an open forward line he won’t see here.

my expectations are in line with reality.

If he outperforms those great, but that should be seen as a great, but unlikely outcome. Those that expect the great and wonderful mythic orazio of 4 goal games and 40 goal seasons will see him as a bust and turn on him quickly.
 

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Ah yes Wade Thompson. Amazing pre season game where he lit the grass on fire and then utterly nothing.
 
Tibbs said:
Look I agree with the bold, but I actually dont see anyone here doing that, in fact, rather the opposite. Most posters here, including yourself, dont rate him, dont want him, and have unwillingly condescended to accepting him as a Port player.

On the other hand, there are a number of posters, who have considered his potential as being worth the risk of the cost to get him. To counterbalance all the negative stuff put forward against him, they have pointed to the positives ... but are then being painted as being "unrealistic."

This is nonsense Philthy05. I agree he could very well be a bust, or maybe become another "Motlop" as some have suggested, with invisible games dotted with the odd good game. On the other hand there is a lot to suggest that he might actually be a very good talent that has been wasted at Essendon, and could flourish if fully fit, being back home, and in our system.

Will he? ... the more I see, read & hear, the more I think he will. And probably a lot more importantly our list management team think so too. So the big question, will he? We will all have to wait and see, but it is really up to him IMO, he has to put in more that the half-assed pre-seasons he has put in at Essendon! Whatever the case, I dont have "unreal expectations," I merely think that he is definitely worth the risk!

And may I add, regardless of any any positives posted here on this board, OF will become a whipping boy if he fails ... thats a given.
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He might even force Motlop to have a good season to save his career.

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philthy05 said:
I did not say, nor have I ever said he will be a bust.
....
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You always pull people up for misquoting you. So right back at you! Where exactly did I accuse you off saying that? My exact words were...
"Most posters here, including yourself, dont rate him, dont want him, and have unwillingly condescended to accepting him as a Port player."

That sir, is 100% correct of everything you have said of him, and more.

MY last comment was ... "OF will become a whipping boy if he fails ... thats a given"

Firstly, that was MY comment, not yours!
Secondly, while you have never used the word "bust", your comments from your first post below, to your last, show your disdain of him as a player. There is no middle ground here! Fantasia is either going to be the 22 game skillful small forward that frees up Rozee and Butters to strengthen our midfield, or he will be a fail (my words) ... "An overated, flakey, has-been" (your words)

You are right, you didn't use the word "bust" .. you used just about every other negative adjective to describe him!


philthy05 said:
This is why I didn’t want us to go near this guy

over-rated contracted flaky has been (if that) at a popular Vic club.

the media is all in when it comes to creating this ******* fairytale where he’s supposedly a gun player and port would be getting a bargain only paying pick 26 for him.

also, fu** the idea of giving away pick 26 cause we’ve finally gotten an nga when the afls other clubs have benefited from farcical sh*t we’ve missed out on for decades.

we didn’t fight our asses off to get into the afl to be soft**** losers.

I don’t want orazio, but if he wants to come to Port, ******* grow a pair and tell them they can take the same late pick they would offer us if it was reversed or they fu** off.
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Tibbs said:
You always pull people up for misquoting you. So right back at you! Where exactly did I accuse you off saying that? My exact words were...
"Most posters here, including yourself, dont rate him, dont want him, and have unwillingly condescended to accepting him as a Port player."

That sir, is 100% correct of everything you have said of him, and more.

MY last comment was ... "OF will become a whipping boy if he fails ... thats a given"

Firstly, that was MY comment, not yours!
Secondly, while you have never used the word "bust", your comments from your first post below, to your last, show your disdain of him as a player. There is no middle ground here! Fantasia is either going to be the 22 game skillful small forward that frees up Rozee and Butters to strengthen our midfield, or he will be a fail (my words) ... "An overated, flakey, has-been" (your words)

You are right, you didn't use the word "bust" .. you used just about every other negative adjective to describe him!
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Literally every word you quoted me on is factually correct until proven otherwise.

Also I’ve shown less disdain for orazio, and more disdain for the grass is greener brigade that have knifed Motlop all year long (with fairly valid reason) to bleat on about how he’s going to be made redundant by orazio, blind to the fact that motlop (while poor) has been the better player lately

It’s not orazios fault Taylor’s crappy calling style made him an overrated household name who wouldn’t be known if he was drafted by port.

It’s not orazios fault people hold him to a standard he’s made once in his career. He seems like a nice enough bloke and has some skills.

my expectations are based on the reality of his output over the last several years and I hope he exceeds that, but if he turns in several more 10 game seasons I’ll hardly be shocked. Our best bet is our training standards have some influence on his body which looks like he’s done **** all since coming into the league and that in turn helps him. Other than that port doesn’t have a magic wand to wave.
 
sobrave said:
Given his low averages it also means he spends a lot of games doing fu** all
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Like every small crumbing forward in the history of football, yes.
 
EskimoPAFC said:
Honestly even as someone that thinks we way overpaid, nailing 4 goals in a game 10 times during a short career where you've barely played football is a pretty elite stat.
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as you state, it's a short career, so percentage wise it's looks good, but that's the problem with smaller sample sizes right? If he doubled his games and doubled the 4 goals or more stat then it would be noteworthy.

More important is recent form in recent years and he's done naff all.

Handy pick up and has a positive up side, also fits in well with the team, but he and Motlop are battling for the same spot in the side at this stage for mine.

Motlop kicked 3 goals against a very good defensive side in a cut throat final two games ago. So he's ahead.
 
I don't think he's battling for Motlop's spot in the side. I think he takes Ebert's spot in the side. Very different players obviously but he fills the same basic position and we didn't give up pick 29 and a third rounder to have him starting in the ressies.
 
Schulzenfest said:
I don't think he's battling for Motlop's spot in the side. I think he takes Ebert's spot in the side. Very different players obviously but he fills the same basic position and we didn't give up pick 29 and a third rounder to have him starting in the ressies.
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Motlop could go if Farrell & Woodcock perform well though it's not like we haven't dropped him before.
 

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News Orazio Fantasia departs for Carlton

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