Opinion Our coaches, leadership, game style, and everything else

[Xarb]

To be honest I'm a bit taken aback by the Longmire hate on this board. How quickly we turn and eat our own.

There was a thread on this board during the 2012 season titled "Longmire the spud".

In 2012.

Sadly this reaction doesn't surprise me at all.

 

[MarkP]

I don't think it is quick though. Our run home in 2013 was appalling but we all chalked it down to our midfield being tired because they had spent so much of the year covering for injuries to the forward line and defence. Now at the start of the 2014 season that excuse has been blown out of the water as our midfield is still just as bad, if not worse than in the final months of the 2013 season and people are beginning to realise it hasn't just been a month that the Swans have been bad. It has been at least 12 games, if not more since the Swans midfield actually seemed to give a crap.

Yep. The other side of the coin to the Longmire "hate" is a personality cult worship becasue he won us a flag as coach.

I am eternally grateful he did and always will be.

The question is - can he win us another one?

All of this is exacerbated by the contract extension which was unnecessary and now questionable on a pure performance basis.

 

[bedford]

Bedford my good fellow, you've always had it in for Horse. When he first started you argued long and hard that we should have gone to someone outside the club. You went quiet when we won a premiership but returned like a persistent rash as soon as things went awry. Of course Horse takes the blame. That's his job. But don't think the players escape the blame either. Jack was so quiet on the weekend I forgot he was playing until he popped up briefly in the last. Some of the basic errors players were making were so bad they looked like they belonged in a school 'D' team (and not high school either - primary school). You quote Bloods spirit, well I saw none of that on the field (with maybe the exception of mighty mouse). The team are doubting themselves and lacking confidence. How is an assassination by their supposed supporter group going to help that ? The team need our support, win or lose.

What happened to Bedfroth.
Haven't always had it in for him, infact I thought he was a better coach than Roos, but now he has a game plan that others have worked out

 

[baja]

What happened to Bedfroth.
Haven't always had it in for him, infact I thought he was a better coach than Roos, but now he has a game plan that others have worked out

If there is a game plan no one is sticking to it. Absolutely no forward structure at all.

 

[Wolftone]

I think you missed the point of the analogy. It's one thing to espouse a theory, even understand it, but it's another to implement it. Longmire would know well what it takes to coach successfully (he has a decent track record) but sometimes not everything clicks into place. Your quoting the theory of coaching by Clarkson and claiming it's as easy as following the instructions is no different to picking up a book on how to get rich (I was quoting Buffet's advice - his track record exceeds Clarkson and it does really work) and thinking that's enough to make the BRW rich list. It's all there. Your quoted theory seems sound but the implementation of any game plan depends on personnel. Clarkson has a team of skilled players who hit targets with unnerving accuracy and stick to their game plan like super-glued velcro. Their team has gelled. They believe in themselves. Sure the ultimate responsibility lies with the coach but when guys like Mal (one of the most accurate in the comp according to some commentators) are struggling to hit the side of the proverbial barn the best game plan in the world isn't going to click.

Four rounds in is not the best time to judge a coach. Let's see what happens with a few key players back, a few underdone players coming back into form and a bit more confidence in the team.

To be honest I'm a bit taken aback by the Longmire hate on this board. How quickly we turn and eat our own.

Ok. So here goes.

Longmire has 2 game plans. Neither is working. He has no third option. That is it. After three years and four games into his fourth I would like to think he can be a little flexible. But it seems not.

Mistakes. Yes the players are making them in droves but so are the coaches.

1. Leaves four GWS players to raffle the ball all to themselves time and again while our players bomb it in long directly to them. does nothing and we get run over by rebound footy.
2. Leaves Maxwell on his own all game in the Pies match where he mopped up time and again. Longmire did not change anything or move a player to him until it was too late and then it just freed up 'The H Bomb'. Reason, because we had a loose player in their forwardline.
3. Brown gets injured at a time Longmire has just moved Reid to a spare in the backline, why I don't know as we were struggling to score goals while he wasn't there. When Brown goes off he doesn't move Reid back forward but keeps him as a loose in defence. Finally realises Brown has gone off late in the final term and moves Reid to CHF. Too late, game over.
4. Plays some of the slowest, more awkward players in the wet against North. They chose to go smaller. We should have changed up to three players for that game as they do not do well in the wet. Jetts is one. ROK another and Shaw can't kick at the best of times but still gets a game.
5. Plays dinky footy in the first half and blames the players for it. Just one minute John, don't they listen to you?
6. Says we bombed long for far too long after the rain had gone. Didn't you get the message over to change to a dry game plan? If not why not? don't keep blaming the players. They might not be playing well but that is also John's fault. Little or no pressure drills, little or nor skills under pressure drills, little or no skills drills. Recognising when players are past it, you can tell even from track work. finding players in the reserves who have the skills you need and using them not leaving them in the twos.

It is a simple game Bundy. It is a matter of making the right decisions both as a player and a coach. Developing a set of strategies that work to stop the opposition strengths and another set to exploit their weaknesses is not that hard. Putting it into practice is however very hard, if you don't react quickly every time the opposition make a move. It is hard to enact if the players are not the right ones to be playing this particular opposition. It is hard if the players skills are not of a high standard. It is hard if the players have lost confidence in the game plan. Ask Paul Roos mate. He took Melbourne from one game plan to a new one and they actually won a match. They have the confidence in the game plan because they know they can do it. I don't think our players think the game plan will work.

 

[teooooooman]

say we don't make finals, what happens to longmire? you'd think he would be under massive pressure.
possibly cop the sack? wouldn't make sense after getting a 2 year contract extension though?

 

[replicant]

say we don't make finals, what happens to longmire? you'd think he would be under massive pressure.
possibly cop the sack? wouldn't make sense after getting a 2 year contract extension though?

Nothing.

A well run club doesn't throw the toys out of the cot. Missing finals is no big deal. If we perform badly, i'd expect the club to bring in some experienced senior assistants to help out. You try and fix the problem first before panicking and start sacking premiership winning coaches.

 

[bedford]

Very well put

 

[bungee]

Ok. So here goes.

Longmire has 2 game plans. Neither is working. He has no third option. That is it. After three years and four games into his fourth I would like to think he can be a little flexible. But it seems not.

Mistakes. Yes the players are making them in droves but so are the coaches.

1. Leaves four GWS players to raffle the ball all to themselves time and again while our players bomb it in long directly to them. does nothing and we get run over by rebound footy.
2. Leaves Maxwell on his own all game in the Pies match where he mopped up time and again. Longmire did not change anything or move a player to him until it was too late and then it just freed up 'The H Bomb'. Reason, because we had a loose player in their forwardline.
3. Brown gets injured at a time Longmire has just moved Reid to a spare in the backline, why I don't know as we were struggling to score goals while he wasn't there. When Brown goes off he doesn't move Reid back forward but keeps him as a loose in defence. Finally realises Brown has gone off late in the final term and moves Reid to CHF. Too late, game over.
4. Plays some of the slowest, more awkward players in the wet against North. They chose to go smaller. We should have changed up to three players for that game as they do not do well in the wet. Jetts is one. ROK another and Shaw can't kick at the best of times but still gets a game.
5. Plays dinky footy in the first half and blames the players for it. Just one minute John, don't they listen to you?
6. Says we bombed long for far too long after the rain had gone. Didn't you get the message over to change to a dry game plan? If not why not? don't keep blaming the players. They might not be playing well but that is also John's fault. Little or no pressure drills, little or nor skills under pressure drills, little or no skills drills. Recognising when players are past it, you can tell even from track work. finding players in the reserves who have the skills you need and using them not leaving them in the twos.

It is a simple game Bundy. It is a matter of making the right decisions both as a player and a coach. Developing a set of strategies that work to stop the opposition strengths and another set to exploit their weaknesses is not that hard. Putting it into practice is however very hard, if you don't react quickly every time the opposition make a move. It is hard to enact if the players are not the right ones to be playing this particular opposition. It is hard if the players skills are not of a high standard. It is hard if the players have lost confidence in the game plan. Ask Paul Roos mate. He took Melbourne from one game plan to a new one and they actually won a match. They have the confidence in the game plan because they know they can do it. I don't think our players think the game plan will work.

Gosh Wolfter, you're right. If only we had you as coach

 

[melbournehammer]

Gosh Wolfter, you're right. If only we had you as coach

It is possible to support the club, coach and players and still ask wtf you know ?

 

[Leg End]

What we don't need as a club is panic-merchant pea hearts who spit the dummy when times are tough.
Injuries mean we don't have the forward line structure we intended - buddy, Tippett, Reid backed up by Goodes.
You can't just remove all this top quality and expect to just sail along.
I'm not thrilled with the loss against North. I have never seen so many simple marks spilled, so many North players free - but we were outplayed by what is a pretty good side.
Fact is - we have always been ordinary in the wet. Don't know why - but it happens time and time again.

Frankly I couldn't give a toss about the sledgers amongst our ranks. There will always be those waiting for the chance to put the knife in - pretty sad really.

The great thing about this club is that they never give up and the turnaround will come. I'm actually intrigued about how and when.

 

[GoTheSwannies]

i refuse to blame gameplan when we have a couple of key pieces out of the side through injury, and alot of our senior players are down on form.

mal, McVeigh have been poor with their delivery. we cant expect to move the ball forward if were not.hitting targets and putting the ball to our own players advantage.

with kj injured/in a form slump, rok slowing down and out of the.middle, and mitchell struggling with the workload, we're missing alot of inside grunt we're losing the battle in the midfield which negates our outside.ball carriers which means we're always under pressure when delivering the ball

we havent been hard enough at the ball, which means we're not winning it cleanly, which has a flow on effect with everything else.

you can't expect to win.games when you're not.doing the basics right.

granted horse has made some errors, particularly against collingwood n.north. hopefully he learnt from that, but its not like our players are winning their individual contests and then losing the ball. were not winning contests, were being beaten by hungrier opposition

 

[M F JONES]

It's time like we have now, where you actually define your culture, your character and your strength, not when you are winning, this is when "the bloods" (if we follow this etho,so to speak) culture,history, promise to each other ect, should and will come to the fore,
Whether it be injuries,drop of form or simply teams have caught us, how we turn it around will help further define the club and it's rich history,
I'm certain each and every player,coach,committee member will all be working on a way to turn it around,
My point is, yep we look slow,flat footed and 1 dimensional at times, frustrating for all, but I have a strong belief we will turn it around,quickly,
Sacking coaches, bagging recruits,that's not who we are, let's look at some other clubs ie Richmond/StKilda who have a rich history of this behavior, do we want to be in that corner?
As I state, you are defined when times are tough (we have only lost 3 games, hardly world ending stuff) not when you are on top.....being on top is the fruit of hard work in times of struggle..

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

say we don't make finals, what happens to longmire? you'd think he would be under massive pressure.
possibly cop the sack? wouldn't make sense after getting a 2 year contract extension though?

Longmire credentials read as following 5th,1st,4th in his first three years he will be coach for as long as he wants to.

Like i said earlier it's not the end of the world if we miss finals all of the top 4 sides have had a 1-2 year drop off before restructuring and climbing back next year (Haw, 09, 10) (Gee, 10, 12).

I doubt Horse instructions and training methods involve players missing 10m kicks under no pressure we are HORRIBILY out of form but there is far to much talent on the list to be where we are on the ladder it might be to late for 2014 but we will click eventually and that will set us up for 2015.

 

[Wolftone]

I am not suggesting sacking the coach but I would like him to take at least some responsibility for our current woes. The players are not playing well either and they are being told by the coach it is their fault every week. I think if my boss kept telling me it was my fault when strategies he invented didn't work then I'd find another job. It is a team effort, management, coaches, players right down to the water boy. Everybody has their role and if they are not performing it then the plan goes awry. I am just pointing out that John should be aware that he has stuffed up too and needs to be more aware on match day of the changes made by opposition coaches. The players don't know, they rely on the coaches to inform them when potentially game changing moves are made and to advise them on the counter measure. The players only see the game from the perspective of their role in the machine that is team.

In saying that I think that we have lost two Assistant Coaches who were very good strategists and not replaced them with similar experience. This is becoming an issue when you look at the stoppages and the defensive strategies around the ground. Not talking about defence I am talking about how we set up to ensure the opposition can't extract easily. How we defend areas of the ground, like the centre corridor. I am astounded at how many times this season teams have run the ball down the guts with no Swans player to impede them. Getting this right with new coaching staff who are inexperienced is an issue.

We also have a cordon of players who are not playing well for whatever reason. ROK, LRT, Shaw are all getting to the end, their time is finished and it may be time to look at youth to replace them. Derrickx is not working out at this time, he may never work out or he might come good but at this time he does too little in general play. Hannas and Mitchell are struggling. Harry and Rohan don't get enough of it even though every time Harry gets it he looks very dangerous. Reg & Teddy are battling lack of a Mattner or Jonno who will help out in times of need and fill the gaps to stop the short pass.

No Bunge, am not a coach but I have watched footy for the last 53 years. I first kicked a footy in Broken Hill at the age of 4. I have seen many coaches and players over the years. I marvel at the great coaches and players. At the coaches skill in developing a simple game into an art. The slingshot was a marvellous strategy, coming from basketball where it is called the fast break. I just love analysing the game and call problems as I see them. Because the game changes so quickly these days, rule changes, strategies, player types, ground rationalisation, equalisation all play their part. A footy club has to battle social pressures on players from media, opposition, fans, relationships (there are many types of relationships within a club), detractors, government, AFL, NRL, Rugby, Soccer, cricket (ground availability), it goes on. The player and coach today are under enormous pressure, I don't think there was ever the same pressure on Barrass when he won his first premiership with North. Today is about winning because if you don't, you don't get the members or the sponsorship money. If you lose in Sydney you are in trouble, Sydneysiders do not support losers.

 

[Leg End]

As I state, you are defined when times are tough (we have only lost 3 games, hardly world ending stuff) not when you are on top.....being on top is the fruit of hard work in times of struggle..

Very well said.
If we are 4 games our of 8th at the halfway mark, then this is a problem.
But even if we are 1 game out of the 8 but we have Goodsey, Tippett, Reid back and firing - well, I'll say it now, we can win from 8th at year end.
there is too much talent for success not to happen.
In some ways, it is good for the team to struggle and get back on their feet. It builds solidarity - and that wins you flags.

 

[GotTheGoodes]

What doesn't kill you....

 

[bungee]

I am not a coach but I have watched footy for the last 53 years...

Like saying "I'm not a gynaecologist but I've watched a lot of pr0n"

Contrary to the biased opinions of the Melbourne media, Sydneysiders do support their team when they lose. Take a look around this board. Look at the optimism and support for our players and coach. We don't eat our own. It's not our culture. And we don't like to see others bagging our team.

 

[bungee]

What we don't need as a club is panic-merchant pea hearts who spit the dummy when times are tough.
Injuries mean we don't have the forward line structure we intended - buddy, Tippett, Reid backed up by Goodes.
You can't just remove all this top quality and expect to just sail along.
I'm not thrilled with the loss against North. I have never seen so many simple marks spilled, so many North players free - but we were outplayed by what is a pretty good side.
Fact is - we have always been ordinary in the wet. Don't know why - but it happens time and time again.

Frankly I couldn't give a toss about the sledgers amongst our ranks. There will always be those waiting for the chance to put the knife in - pretty sad really.

The great thing about this club is that they never give up and the turnaround will come. I'm actually intrigued about how and when.

Can I say I 'like' this twice ?

 

[Lazar Goz]

Definetly should have recruited a mature ruckman from any league and I would be sure that they would be better than Derickx... Better players that dont get oppurtunities and we decide to get Derickx.... Even Mark Seaby would have been a decent get for us

Edit: We also probably chose the wrong american ruck recruit Jason Holmes playing very well for the Saints reserves side

 

[J_Moore]

Definetly should have recruited a mature ruckman from any league and I would be sure that they would be better than Derickx... Better players that dont get oppurtunities and we decide to get Derickx.... Even Mark Seaby would have been a decent get for us

Edit: We also probably chose the wrong american ruck recruit Jason Holmes playing very well for the Saints reserves side

I just looked up match reports for Sandringham and it doesn't sound like he's done anything amazing?

 

[replicant]

Great interview with Stewart Dew on the Swans site (or 6PR). Honest and open, and a good discussion on the players.

Re-affirmed my faith in the coaches and players.

 

[J_Moore]

From the sounds of it, not a lot of changes this week. Bit of "last chance" chat.

Seemed aware of the obvious problems we all rabbit on about here, which is not surprising.

 

[Lazar Goz]

I just looked up match reports for Sandringham and it doesn't sound like he's done anything amazing?

Still well ahead of Patrick in early stages, probably shouldnt judge this early

 

[replicant]

Still well ahead of Patrick in early stages, probably shouldnt judge this early

How do you know? The Saints used to talk up Tommy Walsh too, and look how that turned out. What about Majak Daw? Best player ever if you asked the North fans, but what's he done?

We'll know if one of them makes it as an AFL ruck. Until then, it's all hype and bluster.