Autopsy Game is long over, Swans were putrid

[Mister B]

There needs to be some genuine fear from certain players that they may miss the opportunity of playing in a GF.
Create list pressure & reward good form &n effort in the twos.

I think I said this in another thread. I have wondered whether the players are way to comfortable that their position in the side is safe no matter the performance. That's certainly the way it feels with the likes of Warner and Gulden. Smacks of the Aussie cricket team a few years ago. Underperforming players were kept in the side while dominating state cricketers were left watching from the sidelines.

 

[bedford]

Nah you backed in what you thought but it was just plain old wrong at the end of the day. Wicks is worse than Francis in the loosing streak and that is saying something considering that most are in the consensus that Francis should be cut at the end of the year.


SIMPLY PUT YOUR DELUSIONAL

You can't be serious , god help us

 

[wolftone57]

I remember sitting in the Brewongle Concourse back in the early to mid 90’s watching us get routinely belted.

But a few blokes like Kelly, Cresswell, Luff and Seymour really put in, week after week. It was the genesis of something good.

Who is our Paul Kelly in this team?

Who can really lead by example & lift the playing group?

I just don’t know.

Rowie was out there trying his heart out. Some of the buggers were not trying. The Egos in this team need a kick in the arse

 

[wolftone57]

You know what Dangas?
We'll at least give them a chance to redeem themselves.
Even if they don't win this week, show some competitive spirit to set up a finish to the season that isn't ended with a whimper. I trust that they will.
Us supporters are one thing, but the players themselves that have represented the jumper with the worst effort in the history of the club are the ones that have to save face. They all have to face up to some well respected people of our club this week at the Hall Of Fame. That'll be tough for them. In fact they probably shouldn't be invited due to the stench they've left everyone with after that effort.

But everyone deserves a chance & although I have been a little negative with this team since the GF debacle in 2022 & thinking we were no chance to win a flag, even at 13 & 1, I actually think (hope) that the events of last week may actually be the catalyst to snap out of any arrogance & complacency that may have been lingering after such a successful start to the season.
Now is the time they just might knuckle down & do the hard stuff
starting with the coaches & selectors.

There needs to be some genuine fear from certain players that they may miss the opportunity of playing in a GF.
Create list pressure & reward good form &n effort in the twos.

I think Grundy is in trouble this week. They will rest him.
One of the talls is out too. I fear it's McDonald as a repeat of the 2022 GF.
Go back & dominate the twos Logan. Bring in Edwards if Rampe isn't fit & best of luck son.
I think Fox did himself no favours. He may be out. Mills plays twos, send the message to no one is safe. Cleary in. Rest Heeney. If we lose, we lose. I can deal with Cleary making mistakes. Can't deal with another mistake from Mills.

These guys won't be worse than the players they will replace.

I think we have had ego problems for a while. I was angry at Heeney's attitude earlier in the season where he just dismissed the opposition. Last week he didn't even look as though he was trying. I would bring in Cleary & Gus. Our reserves did not play last week. So, not sure who we bring in to the backs. Edwards? Arnold? We can't use Frncis. He is not good enough. Five metres off his opponent every time, second guessing himself, terrible disposal by hand. It really felt we were paying with one defender down the other night. Peter Ladhams was shitful. Not up to AFL standard. Wicks was horrible. Chad & Heens did not even try. Errol was way off the boil. You are right about Mills, he is a passenger at the moment. Parker forward. Can't have both him & Adams on-ball, they are similar types. Green is not ready. McAndrew is not good enough. Amartey back. Maybe Rampe will be ready. He was a test last week.

Our lack of depth has been found out. But there is another problem. The reserves don't play the same way as the Seniors. I think this impacts when we have to bring players in. Francis is allowed to play loose in the reserves. He shouldn't be. If he plays that way he should be dropped. Maybe it is time to take a risk with Edwards or Arnold? I don't know. Although, Rampe & Melican were tests last week & look like returning this week. We have no small forward depth with Konstanty injured, he was not really that impressive anyway. Magor could be a chance to take Wicks' place. He is a consistently good performer at VFL level

 

[wolftone57]

I started barracking for us when I was about 8 or 9, around 1995. Regional SA, hadn't settled on a team before that, but loved the footy. Possibly the underdog status and the fact no-one else I knew went for them, got me on board, along with Kelly, Lockett etc.

I realise I have been incredibly fortunate to know mostly competitive or good times.

So that was the most insipid performance I've seen while being a Swans fan. And while we're on top, knowing what we can actually do.

I used to go the SCG in the early 1990's. That performance reminded me of then. In fact worse. At least those guys were trying. They were young in the most, badly paid & had no hope being down so long. But every week they would go out & try their hearts out & that's all I asked of my team. Today, we are a highly skilled, talented group of huge egos who just don't give a shite. THERE IS NO WAY ANY SWANS TEAM SHOULD PLAY LIKE THAT & WE SOULD GIVE THEM SHITE FROM THE TERRACES FOR LAST WEEK'S PERFORMANCE

 

[Kbroome]

You can't be serious , god help us

I don't know if you can read the numbers or not but Sam Wicks put up a -1.3 performance on the weekend. Its impressive how utterly s**t he was and has been for the last month of footy. He was dropped rightfully and then in the VFL he didn't gain any form and was chucked straight back into the side. We have direct side by side performances of him and Hanily is smoking Wicks

 

[zyzzbruh]

I don't know if you can read the numbers or not but Sam Wicks put up a -1.3 performance on the weekend. Its impressive how utterly s**t he was and has been for the last month of footy. He was dropped rightfully and then in the VFL he didn't gain any form and was chucked straight back into the side. We have direct side by side performances of him and Hanily is smoking Wicks

Arguing who was the shittest in a pile of shit isn't really condusive to anything. Hanily wouldn't have touched the ball on the weekend, and thank god the kid wasn't subjected to a debut like that.

 

[Kbroome]

Arguing who was the shittest in a pile of shit isn't really condusive to anything. Hanily wouldn't have touched the ball on the weekend, and thank god the kid wasn't subjected to a debut like that.

So we should keep the worst player in the side to safe guard a youngster from a debut but at the detriment of the team? That is literally just creating complacency that these players have no competition for spots because we have to safeguard the youth from playing senior mens football. If their good enough they are good enough

 

[zyzzbruh]

So we should keep the worst player in the side to safe guard a youngster from a debut but at the detriment of the team? That is literally just creating complacency that these players have no competition for spots because we have to safeguard the youth from playing senior mens football. If their good enough they are good enough

A performance like that is never a clear reflection of a players ability or form - it's unfair to read too far into individuals after that sort of game. i.e is Mccartin that shit of a defender? is Blakey that shit of a rebounding half back? Is Gulden that shit of a kick? Is Rowbottom that poor of a distributor out of the contest? No they're not, and Wicks is the same. It's the collective who let the system down, at that point the whole squad was set up to fail so it literally makes no difference who put up the worst numbers in a shocker performance all around.

If Wicks was one of a few clear poor performers in an otherwise good team performance, then you have a point, but he has not had a single bad performance in a winning side this year.

And before you say well he's performed bad and should be replaced by a player who could do better - No player on the planet could replace him and put up a more impactful performance in that specific role in the last few losses - the point of that role isn't to play inspiring footy and pick a poor midfield and defensive unit off the canvas. Dropping Wicks will never be the difference in turning a potential loss into a win, never. However he has proven that he can play a pretty reliable role in making sure a good performance ends up in a win.

 

[bedford]

Arguing who was the shittest in a pile of shit isn't really condusive to anything. Hanily wouldn't have touched the ball on the weekend, and thank god the kid wasn't subjected to a debut like that.

Don't worry he knows everything

 

[Kbroome]

A performance like that is never a clear reflection of a players ability or form - it's unfair to read too far into individuals after that sort of game. i.e is Mccartin that shit of a defender? is Blakey that shit of a rebounding half back? Is Gulden that shit of a kick? Is Rowbottom that poor of a distributor out of the contest? No they're not, and Wicks is the same. It's the collective who let the system down, at that point the whole squad was set up to fail so it literally makes no difference who put up the worst numbers in a shocker performance all around.

If Wicks was one of a few clear poor performers in an otherwise good team performance, then you have a point, but he has not had a single bad performance in a winning side this year.

And before you say well he's performed bad and should be replaced by a player who could do better - No player on the planet could replace him and put up a more impactful performance in that specific role in the last few losses - the point of that role isn't to play inspiring footy and pick a poor midfield and defensive unit off the canvas. Dropping Wicks will never be the difference in turning a potential loss into a win, never. However he has proven that he can play a pretty reliable role in making sure a good performance ends up in a win.

He has had bad games in wins

Essendon 11 touches, 3 tackles 0 goals

10 game win streak:
GWS 8 touches, 2 tackles 0 goals
Fremantle 13 touches 2 tackles 0 goals
Adelaide 9 touches, 2 tackles 0 goals
GWS 5 touches, 2 tackles 0 goals

So we had a 10 game win steak and Wicks was not influential in almost half of the games. And i didn't involve games where he had 1 goal and limited touches and tackles.

Wicks had played 16 games this year and only 3 have been up to an AFL standard

 

[bedford]

Hope Ralphy boy appears against this newcomer

 

[ashep]

Hope Ralphy boy appears against this newcomer

To say what exactly?

 

[caesar88]

He has had bad games in wins

Essendon 11 touches, 3 tackles 0 goals

10 game win streak:
GWS 8 touches, 2 tackles 0 goals
Fremantle 13 touches 2 tackles 0 goals
Adelaide 9 touches, 2 tackles 0 goals
GWS 5 touches, 2 tackles 0 goals

So we had a 10 game win steak and Wicks was not influential in almost half of the games. And i didn't involve games where he had 1 goal and limited touches and tackles.

Wicks had played 16 games this year and only 3 have been up to an AFL standard

If you are looking purely at stats for a player like Wicks, who is sometimes given very specific and not-stat-friendly roles, then you've already missed the point.

For example did you know he was given the job on Bailey Dale last week and did a good job nullifying his impact for three quarters, hence retaining his spot for the Port game?

I don't think it's recognised enough how difficult it is to have a big impact with the ball when your role is focused on things you do without it.

 

[bedford]

To say what exactly?

Do you know who he is

 

[Kbroome]

If you are looking purely at stats for a player like Wicks, who is sometimes given very specific and not-stat-friendly roles, then you've already missed the point.

For example did you know he was given the job on Bailey Dale last week and did a good job nullifying his impact for three quarters, hence retaining his spot for the Port game?

I don't think it's recognised enough how difficult it is to have a big impact with the ball when your role is focused on things you do without it.

Tagging the same Dale to 16 touches 4 marks and 4 SIs in 3 quarters when he averages 25 disposals 6 marks and 4.3 SIs per game. I would argue that he had null impact as extrapolating it he would have had 22 touches 5 marks and 5 SIs which would have been an within reasonable margins of an average game.

 

[ashep]

If you are looking purely at stats for a player like Wicks, who is sometimes given very specific and not-stat-friendly roles, then you've already missed the point.

For example did you know he was given the job on Bailey Dale last week and did a good job nullifying his impact for three quarters, hence retaining his spot for the Port game?

I don't think it's recognised enough how difficult it is to have a big impact with the ball when your role is focused on things you do without it.

If he was playing a defensive forward role, that would still show up in tackling or pressure numbers, both of which have been diabolical most of the season.

I know the argument goes that he must be following coach's orders if he keeps getting a game but he just isn't contributing.

 

[ashep]

Do you know who he is

Yes and my question stands.

 

[KingV23]

Tagging the same Dale to 16 touches 4 marks and 4 SIs in 3 quarters when he averages 25 disposals 6 marks and 4.3 SIs per game. I would argue that he had null impact as extrapolating it he would have had 22 touches 5 marks and 5 SIs which would have been an within reasonable margins of an average game.

Having a moment here. What is an SI?

 

[caesar88]

Tagging the same Dale to 16 touches 4 marks and 4 SIs in 3 quarters when he averages 25 disposals 6 marks and 4.3 SIs per game. I would argue that he had null impact as extrapolating it he would have had 22 touches 5 marks and 5 SIs which would have been an within reasonable margins of an average game.

Again though, stats.

Dale had received coaches votes in 5 of the previous 7 games before his match against us, and didn't receive any from that game opposed to Wicks. So a very impactful player having his impact restricted, even comparatively? Job done. This is not to say Wicks is the greatest shutdown player of all time. But he did his job.

 

[Kbroome]

Again though, stats.

Dale had received coaches votes in 5 of the previous 7 games before his match against us, and didn't receive any from that game opposed to Wicks. So a very impactful player having his impact restricted, even comparatively? Job done. This is not to say Wicks is the greatest shutdown player of all time. But he did his job.

So he gets credit for Dale being 7th or 8th best on ground and having an average game. One of the reasons he was 7th best on ground was because we allowed a midfielder to have 40 touches and key defenders to have so many intercepts. So Wicks gets a pass mark for limiting his opponent to average numbers and having 8 touches 4 tackles and 1 SI of his own with no goals to show for it

 

[caesar88]

So he gets credit for Dale being 7th or 8th best on ground and having an average game. One of the reasons he was 7th best on ground was because we allowed a midfielder to have 40 touches and key defenders to have so many intercepts. So Wicks gets a pass mark for limiting his opponent to average numbers and having 8 touches 4 tackles and 1 SI of his own with no goals to show for it

Who said Dale was 7th or 8th best on ground?

 

[ashep]

Who said Dale was 7th or 8th best on ground?

Does it really matter though? If the only way your impact as a forward can be assessed is your opponent not getting coaches votes then we're really splitting hairs.

The fact is that Wicks has been in our bottom 6 all year, often our worst ranked forward, and his output is significantly down on previous seasons.

You can make the argument there is no-one putting their hand up to replace him, but that doesn't mean his lack of impact isn't fair game.

 

[caesar88]

Does it really matter though? If the only way your impact as a forward can be assessed is your opponent not getting coaches votes then we're really splitting hairs.

My point was that he did the job given to him. And it's inevitably a sacrificial job. Nine out of ten players are not going to pick up huge stats and have a huge impact the other way if they have a negative role.

 

[Kbroome]

My point was that he did the job given to him. And it's inevitably a sacrificial job. Nine out of ten players are not going to pick up huge stats and have a huge impact the other way if they have a negative role.

And the pretty obvious point is that he had a negligible impact on Dale as the week before Dale had 23 touches and less SIs against Geelong. Against Port a couple weeks before that he had a worse game than Wick's tag game, i don't believe he was tagged in either game