Coach Our next coach - Training Wheels included

[swuzzlebubble]

If Teague was to be removed and paid out his 2022 contract - you’d think he’d be snapped up pretty quick by another club (especially as a forwards coach).

Would that lessen the soft-cap blow?

Payout is only half year and he would be at bottom of coaches range, but obviously everything helps.

I wonder how close to the soft cap we are though given we don't have high profile staff. Russell apparently on a bit.
But if we have room to upgrade Teague to say Clarko what room is left for a Lloyd upgrade let alone the assistants?

 

[AndyLucimitis]

Clarko has WAY too many Malthouse vibes for me

I wish Buckleys history was at any other club than Collingwood because he is the clear and obvious best choice for us imo. But with the recent Malthouse/Daisy experience still fresh in peoples minds the club may be too scared to go back to the Collingwood well

Clarko has "my way or the highway, I know it all about senior coaching" vibes much like Malthouse, where as Buckley has the experience of head coach but is as hungry for success as any and will be willing to grow and learn with the group.

Some speculation there from me but that's how I see it

Remember a comment when Liddle appointed Teague that his analysis and research was that Teague was the perfect fit for the group of players and their personalities.

That worked out well.


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[Elmer_Hauser]

Remember a comment when Liddle appointed Teague that his analysis and research was that Teague was the perfect fit for the group of players and their personalities.

That worked out well.


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I am pretty sure it was the board that appointed Teague. Not Liddle.

Not a big fan of his, but some of the Liddle hate and scapegoating of him has been ridiculous and unfair.

His job appears to be secure at any rate, i think many of the SOS loyalists need to let go of the grudge they are holding against Liddle. There is two sides to every story.

 

[CarltonBlooz]

Payout is only half year and he would be at bottom of coaches range, but obviously everything helps.

I wonder how close to the soft cap we are though given we don't have high profile staff. Russell apparently on a bit.
But if we have room to upgrade Teague to say Clarko what room is left for a Lloyd upgrade let alone the assistants?

Probably end up paying some tax, which certainly helps to be in such a good financial position.

I don't think $$$$$$ will be a problem, it'll be attracting good quality people, a good quality coach would help with that though, lot of the good assistant coaches got snapped up last off-season too, I guess we could do what we do best and go poaching, but we'll see how the next few months pan out.

That's generally why you build up a coach that doesn't cost you a bajillion dollars and work out everything else around that, very rare for experienced coach to go to a different club in modern era and win a flag.

 

[ianh]

Clarkson and Lyon in that order for me. And that is coming from someone who would have gladly given Ian Aitken Clarkson's itinerary highlighting his the security weakpoints, a baseball bat and a free hit had it been in my power to do so - and who has the impression Clarko and Lyon can be absolute see you next Tuesdays. But that is my point - they are maybe the best coaches because of that very character, but more relevantly it is that very element that is needed most at CFC right now. Someone the players WILL follow. There are 2 opposing theories about great leaders and how to get people to follow you - make them love you and they will do anything for you out of that love. Make them fear you - they will do anything for you out of that fear. Both have their points but in my opinion just like I think fear of failure is a greater motivator than dreams of success, so I think the more powerful impact is the fear based one. Think of the great players who have transitioned straight into coaching and been unable to overcome the mateship factor to be the BOSS (eg Voss). Think of Jezza who succeeded as captain coach - he flogged the players so hard that hated it, feared training after a loss more than anything and stormed to a flag. Ancient history I know but we can still take lessons from it.

And the guy who understands the importance of next Tuesday and makes the players fear seeing him on that day will get the results out of a bunch that seem to be cruising at the moment. And the bigger that factor is the better which is why I see Clarko and Lyon as a clear number 1 and 2 choice and in that clear order despite my disdain for their personae. I may feel deeply conflicted about doing it, but as another football club once said - and it worked for them in terms of improvement - "Whatever it Takes".

 

[lilJeffyG]

So what happens if we get Clarko or Lyon, who we think are the best and we stay the same?

 

[bigblueboy]

Payout is only half year and he would be at bottom of coaches range, but obviously everything helps.

I wonder how close to the soft cap we are though given we don't have high profile staff. Russell apparently on a bit.
But if we have room to upgrade Teague to say Clarko what room is left for a Lloyd upgrade let alone the assistants?

Russell on more than Teague

 

[Beyond Blue]

I think getting rid of Teague would be another example of short sighted, pig headed Carlton that think they can buy success with a big name.

Is Teague the perfect coach? No, but he needs to have a shot to develop his craft.
Reality is we've been smashed by injuries, he has taken over a lop sided list with doubts over many of the young players traded and drafted in over the past 5 years.
He's had a crack at playing more exciting, attacking football. Certainly scope for more balance in our play but much more enjoyable to watch than previous years where we would be lucky to kick 60 points a game.
Let's get in some experienced assistants to mentor him and add some tactical nous.
A new coach represents another regime change, huge changes to the list and a whole reset of game plan.
I'm wary of the jaded champion coach coming to our club to get "instant success". Let's stick fat and actually invest in our club over at least 4 - 5 years before throwing all the toys out of the cot.
It sounds like Teague is gone - classic Carlton. We never learn. We never change. No wonder our culture sucks.

If they are sticking with Teague, they give him a contract extension. They won't leave him hanging for next year.

100% this. If we are going to keep him we really need to offer him a contract extension otherwise the speculation over his job next year, in the final year of his contract, will ramp up every time we have a bad loss. That kind of pressure is almost unfair on him and the players. Not to mention it would be difficult getting good assistant coaches across to support him when there is zero guarantee of job security for even the 2022 season. Nobody wants a repeat of this years scuttlebutt about his job and nor do we want to be in a position where we sack a coach mid season and effectively write off another year maybe two getting a new coach.
The alternative is we’ve now seen enough to suggest he doesn’t have the tools to be a successful coach, that is he is more of a Neeld or McCarthy than a Hardwick situation.
Back him or sack him, understanding “back him” means re-signing him for at least another two years.
Would we be prepared to do that?

 

[macky99]

100% this. If we are going to keep him we really need to offer him a contract extension otherwise the speculation over his job next year, in the final year of his contract, will ramp up every time we have a bad loss. That kind of pressure is almost unfair on him and the players. Not to mention it would be difficult getting good assistant coaches across to support him when there is zero guarantee of job security for even the 2022 season. Nobody wants a repeat of this years scuttlebutt about his job and nor do we want to be in a position where we sack a coach mid season and effectively write off another year maybe two getting a new coach.
The alternative is we’ve now seen enough to suggest he doesn’t have the tools to be a successful coach, that is he is more of a Neeld or McCarthy than a Hardwick situation.
Back him or sack him, understanding “back him” means re-signing him for at least another two years.
Would we be prepared to do that?

Short answer No.
There is no plan evident from Teague to make the necessary improvements that have been clear this year.

 

[Beyond Blue]

Short answer No.
There is no plan evident from Teague to make the necessary improvements that have been clear this year.

Hard to disagree

 

[Original Moody Blue]

Clarko on the news tonight, when asked about coaching Carlton next year…

“Some things are best left alone… I just need to sit back and work out what I’m doing next…”

Translation…

“I’ll be announced as Carlton’s coach in two weeks”

Translation: I need the Carlton job about as much as I need a hole in the head.
I am taking a year off and probably get an easy gig with the AFL.

 

[TheCoach16]

Translation: I need the Carlton job about as much as I need a hole in the head.
I am taking a year off and probably get an easy gig with the AFL.

Or…

“I don’t mind the idea of being an eight time premiership coach”

 

[CJMB]

Payout is only half year and he would be at bottom of coaches range, but obviously everything helps.

I wonder how close to the soft cap we are though given we don't have high profile staff. Russell apparently on a bit.
But if we have room to upgrade Teague to say Clarko what room is left for a Lloyd upgrade let alone the assistants?

6 month payout is for a AFL assisted clubs. We’re not one of them.

 

[CarltonBlooz]

6 month payout is for a AFL assisted clubs. We’re not one of them.

AFL insists on six-month payout clauses for coaches

New guidelines to AFL-funded clubs limits payouts regardless of the length of contracts. But the coaches' association believes it gives incompetent boards a ''get-out-of-jail-free'' card.

www.theage.com.au

" St Kilda's Brett Ratten, Carlton's David Teague and Gold Coast's Stuart Dew all have six-month payout clauses or less in their new coaching deals."

 

[Gavstar]

AFL insists on six-month payout clauses for coaches

New guidelines to AFL-funded clubs limits payouts regardless of the length of contracts. But the coaches' association believes it gives incompetent boards a ''get-out-of-jail-free'' card.

www.theage.com.au

" St Kilda's Brett Ratten, Carlton's David Teague and Gold Coast's Stuart Dew all have six-month payout clauses or less in their new coaching deals."

We were an AFL assisted club at the time of Teagues signing.

Clearing the debt means we are now not assisted though with COVID who knows what the future holds.

Would Clarko go to an assisted club with a six month termination clause?

 

[WalshYouLegend]

Remember a comment when Liddle appointed Teague that his analysis and research was that Teague was the perfect fit for the group of players and their personalities.

That worked out well.


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Not really

 

[CJMB]

AFL insists on six-month payout clauses for coaches

New guidelines to AFL-funded clubs limits payouts regardless of the length of contracts. But the coaches' association believes it gives incompetent boards a ''get-out-of-jail-free'' card.

www.theage.com.au

" St Kilda's Brett Ratten, Carlton's David Teague and Gold Coast's Stuart Dew all have six-month payout clauses or less in their new coaching deals."

nice

 

[Jimmyonesix]

But how would Ross coach a team with Harry and Charlie up forward. St Kilda with Reiwoldt and co were reasonably attacking although he’s always going to have some emphasis on defence as finals winning teams always defend well.


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He lost to probably the best backline since 2000 against the cats -- mick malthouse is a defence first coach -- they kick straight freo probably beat hawks... I not to worried about Ross making our game boring -- he will make those that play accountable ..
don't worry about our fitness either - you look GPS numbers we run harder and faster both ways most games wth more sprint efforts just the positioning and the patterns burn petrol for no result --
The injuries and players coming back not ready I don't know who at fault ..

 

[Jimmyonesix]

I tend to agree although it would be a wild ride so I'd be interested to see it play out.

My concern with the Clarko/Lyon types is they might come in with the promise to implement their systems and get us back on track, but if it's not working out they say we need a rebuild and we're too invested in them to push back.

Both would rebuild on the run if they need -- big difference -- our main side is basically 27 below as of January 2022

 

[17SetMeFree]

Or…

“I don’t mind the idea of being an eight time premiership coach”

or

"depends if ian Aitken hangs around"

 

[BringFevBack2021]

Anyone know if Ryan O’Keefe is ready for a tilt as a senior coach? Obviously, his brother is the VFL coach but Ryan was a pretty good midfield coach at Adelaide and a well respected head coach for the Crows SANFL side. Now coaching the Western Jets. Has a lot to do with young indigenous people so would be a great person to have around the club for that reason.

Not necessarily for us, as I’m not keen on another untried coach - just curious about if anyone has heard whispers about him as a senior coach.

 

[Drexl 31]

It is just as if not more important who the next coach brings as his assistants. The clowns we have had haven't made Teague's job easy.

 

[dlb99]

Did Teague want to keep the clown assistants? Rumour has it he wanted status quo.

 

[swuzzlebubble]

It is just as if not more important who the next coach brings as his assistants. The clowns we have had haven't made Teague's job easy.

Did Teague want to keep the clown assistants? Rumour has it he wanted status quo.

That's the thing.
A new coach needs the most help but can be least willing to accept it, or even feel threatened by talent.

 

[El Topo]

Let's be honest Teague was the creation of a dumb preaident, a full of himself ceo and a stupid supporter base

Outside of Longmire, the senior coaching options in 2019 were mediocre at best - one school of thought is that DT was always a caretaker appointment