Coach Our next coach - Training Wheels included

[Elmer_Hauser]

I

Hey guys, how are ya?

Just thought I would share my thoughts of Lyon as a Dockers supporter.

Mixed feelings really. Yeah, he made the club relevant and got the best out of some players, but not sure if he is the best for youth development.
Ultimately, it's all a matter of where you see your list at the moment.

If you believe you have the talent, but just not the system, game style or admin nous at the top, then I would say go with Lyon.

If not, I reckon give another coach a go. There were a few role type players which Lyon likes in 2012 - 2015 but there were also some bloody good players (Sandilands, Mundy, Barlow, Fyfe, McPharlin, Pav, Walters, Hill, Neale ect)

The other thing is - is the general game style now is different to 6/7 years ago? (when he had success at Freo). Is a stifling, defensive type game style going to take you as far anymore? Or has the game evolved? In my opinion there definitely are not as many taggers in the system as their was back then.

Anyway, a lot to consider.

Best of luck for the next phase which ever way it goes.

We need someone who has clearly a very good track record in fixing up under achieving clubs with poor/fractured cultures, and for my money Ross the Boss is exactly the man for the job.

I am not sure if Clarkson has the energy or enthusiasm to undertake such an through undertaking in instilling a new standard of professionalism and culture into the club.

Most likely takes a year off whilst he son completes his VCE than takes over Dew at Gold Coast.

Ross Lyon is exactly the right person to lead our club and boys going forwards.

 

[DirtyLeeds]

Have been supporting the push for Ross for a couple of weeks, hunger for the missing piece of his jigsaw...
I reckon we could match up the Freo list to the Blues, but we have some very special forwards, where it was Pav or bust, bit more like the Saints set up with Roo and Kosi up front.
Forget the Clarko narrative, Lyon's coaching career finishing where it began 25 years ago has such a synergy how could he not jump at the opportunity, and apparently he used to be a bagger!!!!

 

[Balotelli!!!]

8/7/21

 

[NewDarkNavyBlues]

Ross doesn't excite me but I feel like he's a step up from our last 4 coaches.

I do not want it to be just Ross though. I want to assemble a super team around him. Someone that will challenge him where required.

 

[Metalcrusher]

Ross doesn't excite me but I feel like he's a step up from our last 4 coaches.

I do not want it to be just Ross though. I want to assemble a super team around him. Someone that will challenge him where required.

You believe in the tooth fairy too yeah? How much "soft cap" do you think we have? We do have to pay out Teague for one year as well

 

[viking12]

Much prefer Clarkson over Lyon

we need a coach who is a tactician and the ability to change directions on game day

 

[Beyond Blue]

Much prefer Clarkson over Lyon

we need a coach who is a tactician and the ability to change directions on game day

Lyon is a good tactician. Even a lot of my Dockers supporting mates all say he was very good at assessing the way a game was being played and making the necessary adjustments during a match to alter the course of games in his favour.

 

[thebyson]

If we get Ross expect to win 2 of the first 10 and then 8 of the next 12 to be there about.

He turned the Dockers around in his first season teaching them defence and playing your role.

I would expect the same with us.

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

 

[katmanblue]

You believe in the tooth fairy too yeah? How much "soft cap" do you think we have? We do have to pay out Teague for one year as well

Six months.

 

[charred_fate]

One of the reasons being put forward repeatedly in support of Ross is that he’ll be “hungry for a premiership” … what a queer statement.

 

[no fate]

Was there ever a more justified club or time to blow out the soft cap? I don't mean spend money foolishly, but let's get the best. After 20 years in the wilderness, club finally has no debt and can afford it. Footy success will bring more $$$ in the door too. We could be on the verge of something special if the right changes are made, but now is not the time for penny pinching. No need for publicity or fanfare, just do it.

 

[Blue Runnings]

If it is Ross as senior coach, then the club should do some research on the backlash the Portland Trailblazers, in the NBA, received for their new coach hire. Unfortunately the past catches up with people and the media will do what they do to beat it up. Fairly or unfairly. But even more so because we are the rabble that is Carlton and they love it. Unfortunately Ross doesn’t fit with the Carlton Respects Initiative. The club just needs to be prepared.

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

If it is Ross as senior coach, then the club should do some research on the backlash the Portland Trailblazers, in the NBA, received for their new coach hire. Unfortunately the past catches up with people and the media will do what they do to beat it up. Fairly or unfairly. But even more so because we are the rabble that is Carlton and they love it. Unfortunately Ross doesn’t fit with the Carlton Respects Initiative. The club just needs to be prepared.

I am not defending Lyon's past actions, but he is hardly guilty of committing violence against women..

If he was, I hardly think Caro would feel comfortable working alongside him on Footy Classified.

I assume RTB has learnt from his mistakes and won't repeat them, let's just let bygones be bygones, he will be our next coach and will do great things for our club and turning around our mediocre culture.

#inrosswetrust

 

[jj1978]

One thing for sure both Lyon and Clarkson will bring about good training standards and work ethic! Both have something to prove so won't take the job lightly, and both will demand respect to the role, the team and the jumper. Clarko may be easier to adapt to as he seems capable to balance the authoritarian side to the friend side, as well as I gather elements of Bolton's style was adapted from the Clarko playbook so there will be some familiarity there. Also Clarko and Russell know how to work together and have previous synergy and trust.

Both will be great, with Clarko I think we'd see improvement a tad quicker, with Ross we'll get there but he'll have more reprogramming to do.

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

Don Pyke was able to swallow pride and work with Longmire, Brendan Bolton went and worked with Clarko, Voss did it at Port, Leppitsch at Richmond.. I just wonder if there might be a role for Nathan Buckley as an assistant working with Ross Lyon... Would be a fair upgrade on experience over what we have at the moment.

 

[AceAndy]

If it is Ross as senior coach, then the club should do some research on the backlash the Portland Trailblazers, in the NBA, received for their new coach hire. Unfortunately the past catches up with people and the media will do what they do to beat it up. Fairly or unfairly. But even more so because we are the rabble that is Carlton and they love it. Unfortunately Ross doesn’t fit with the Carlton Respects Initiative. The club just needs to be prepared.

Quite frankly this Carlton Respects isnt compatible with Ross being at the club is just rediculous.

The way people are going on you would think he is a convicted serial sexual predator.

 

[Gointocarlton]

I have a feeling Carlton will come up with something left field with the coaching, something nobody picked or expected.
Having said that, I have always viewed Lyon and Clarko as being coaches who preach very heavily the non negotiables in football and when these are not adhered to, there are consequences. I have felt for a long time that our mob don't seem to have them or value the concept. If we have them, there dont seem to be any consequences (other than sacking the coach) because week after week, we see the same problems during games often by the same players.

 

[charred_fate]

I have a feeling Carlton will come up with something left field with the coaching, something nobody picked or expected.
Having said that, I have always viewed Lyon and Clarko as being coaches who preach very heavily the non negotiables in football and when these are not adhered to, there are consequences. I have felt for a long time that our mob don't seem to have them or value the concept. If we have them, there dont seem to be any consequences (other than sacking the coach) because week after week, we see the same problems during games often by the same players.

Josh Gibson (after Hawks traded for him):

After being caught by the club for partying at the Australian Grand Prix early into the 2010 season and also being pulled over for speeding on his way to a club appointment, Gibson's move to the Hawks was quickly being questioned.

The two-time best and fairest revealed Clarkson slammed him in front of his new teammates, stating he must "fit in or f*** off".

"Clarko did give me the old 'fit in or f*** off' in front of the group," Gibson said.

"I was actually talking to Taylor Duryea about it the other day, he says it was the thing that moulded him, seeing how serious the footy club was.

"I like the fact that it sort of had a lasting impression on some of these blokes, but it definitely had a lasting impression on me because I think I was pretty good after that."

 

[majesticseacapt]

He turned the Dockers around in his first season teaching them defence and playing your role.

These are the two biggest factors that could turn our fortunes around.

I think Lyon, Clarkson and Pyke would all being this mentality.

I have no preference as all three are considered an upgrade in my book. Lyon has a good track record of extracting the most out of mediocre lists, while Clarkson has a proven record of success. Pyke was impressive as a senior coach but tried to think outside of the box with his camp that fractured his playing list.. I would have the other two after of Pyke because of this but I have no doubt he has learnt from this.

If not any of these three, happy for teague to go around again with some senior support and guidance.

 

[Gointocarlton]

Josh Gibson (after Hawks traded for him):

After being caught by the club for partying at the Australian Grand Prix early into the 2010 season and also being pulled over for speeding on his way to a club appointment, Gibson's move to the Hawks was quickly being questioned.

The two-time best and fairest revealed Clarkson slammed him in front of his new teammates, stating he must "fit in or f*** off".

"Clarko did give me the old 'fit in or f*** off' in front of the group," Gibson said.

"I was actually talking to Taylor Duryea about it the other day, he says it was the thing that moulded him, seeing how serious the footy club was.

"I like the fact that it sort of had a lasting impression on some of these blokes, but it definitely had a lasting impression on me because I think I was pretty good after that."

Wasn't aware of that but there you go. You also saw Matty Nicks in the doco they did last year tell the playing group that if they weren't prepared to to do something (may have been talking about defending), pack your bag now and leave. I cant imagine Bolts or Teague ever looking players in the eyes and telling them that. At what point does a coach tell players that their actions/non actions/non adherence to plans determine whether he has a job or not? Clarko and Lyon strike me as the types who have that conversation very early on in the piece.

 

[gbatman]

Forgive the intrusion - I come in peace.

I just don't know how relevant the coach is at your club anymore. You've had some bloody good coaches over the journey but the result of each has been like watching a bad movie on repeat. Take any AFL coach and bring them into Carlton and I doubt things would change.

Something is deeply wrong at Carlton at the most senior level, and I hope that gets uncovered soon. The way the players capitulated last night was really damning - it looked like an exasperated playing group out there. There was no effort for the milestone game, the coach who's probably going out the door, it just looked like a group of players with no passion, no drive, no anything. They look exhausted, as if they genuinely believe they have no options.

I've seen similar things at Adelaide. That club is so clearly rotten to the core. The whole place needs to be nuked and start again with no past people in charge.

I fear Carlton might need to meet the same fate before things improve. You don't stay in this position for 25 years for nothing. There are clearly some leaders at the club that need to be turfed out before things can improve.

I have family who are Blues supporters and it sucks that they never get to share in the typical footy banter and excitement that the rest of my family does. To them, footy has become just one big sad joke. I feel for them for this, they deserve better. Decades of memberships should net you more than this.

I hope someone takes out the trash and brings Carlton back to the fray again. If Richmond can do it, Carlton should be able to as well.

We keep changing the coach but the coach has never been the problem.

1. Problem dates back to the 90s when poor management lead to financial problems, we literally became a poor club back then even though on the outside we still looked and behaved as a wealthy club. One thing we can say is that we are finally out of debt and a financially viable club again but this has just happened.

2. Arrogance, blindness and further mismanagement took us further down the rabbit hole. I mentioned to someone the other day that had Andrew Russell came to Carlton instead of Essendon in 2000 and our idiot president kept his mouth shut then we would have had Aaron Hamill that season and we would have been a supremely fit side as Essendon were and we would have been premiers that season IMO. We were good that season but we were not to the level of fitness the Bombers where or even Melbourne for that matter, our success was based on pure class and Kouta. What has this got to do with where we are now? These were the first signs that we were falling behind the rest of the competition. Fitness, list management, sports science. We had a good list but these areas were badly neglected. Are we there yet? Absolutely not!

3. Salary cap scandal. It all came to a massive blow. Years of poor recruiting saw a terrible list in need of a rebuild. Draft penalties stopped the progress there and cost us big. However other issues happened at the same time. Clubs poverty problems meant we nearly went out of existence and relied on hand outs. A mass retirement of leaders of the club meant that the club had no leadership. What followed was a toxic culture that meant players didn't develop and didn't perform. The constant off field issues were one thing but the lacks of drive, discipline and push that leadership provides wasn't there. Talent walked in had a mediocre career and walked out. The club has never fixed the culture and lack of leadership issues. Without leaders the coach's message is not reiterated and if that isn't happening then the coach can't get the players to do what he wants and what is needed to be done to be successful.

4. Our footy department is terrible, look at our injuries, it has to be mismanagement. Pagan never had a chance, he was at a poor club with a poor culture and very few draft picks. Ratten and Teague were rookie coaches and they made typical mistakes rookie coaches are going to make if they have no support. Rookie coaches only work if they are naturally good and have done a really long apprenticeship under a good coach or are going to a strong mature established side and have good support around them. Rookie coaches generally succeed with a good senior assistant around them. These two had none of that. Malthouse came to a terrible list that had no youth coming through, but what was worth is that he was dealing with an older bunch who had been developed without leadership and therefore needed to be changed but could not be changed. He came from Collingwood who had a strong leadership group who backed him up to Carlton who had no leadership at all, only by title. Bolton, no chance, again poorly staffed. We have had one of the the worst footy departments going around for so long we just keep going around in circles. Imagine being half trained in your field or any field really, then all of a sudden getting promoted to the top and told to do that job and you're on your own, no senior people around you to help? This is Carlton's coaching structure.

It's never been the coach, it's always been us. We badly lack people at the club who know what it takes to build a footy department.

 

[mochacinolatte]

Josh Gibson (after Hawks traded for him):

After being caught by the club for partying at the Australian Grand Prix early into the 2010 season and also being pulled over for speeding on his way to a club appointment, Gibson's move to the Hawks was quickly being questioned.

The two-time best and fairest revealed Clarkson slammed him in front of his new teammates, stating he must "fit in or f*** off".

"Clarko did give me the old 'fit in or f*** off' in front of the group," Gibson said.

"I was actually talking to Taylor Duryea about it the other day, he says it was the thing that moulded him, seeing how serious the footy club was.

"I like the fact that it sort of had a lasting impression on some of these blokes, but it definitely had a lasting impression on me because I think I was pretty good after that."

If you listen to some podcast e.g Dyl and Friends and listen to Barlow/Dawson/DeBoer/Neale etc they have high praise of Lyon's setting standards. He may have been harsher so maybe sitting back a few years gave him a different point of view?

I like Ross, just the way he presents himself in the media and provide analytics impresses me. But I do hope we surround him with quality assistants.

 

[Metalcrusher]

We keep changing the coach but the coach has never been the problem.

1. Problem dates back to the 90s when poor management lead to financial problems, we literally became a poor club back then even though on the outside we still looked and behaved as a wealthy club. One thing we can say is that we are finally out of debt and a financially viable club again but this has just happened.

2. Arrogance, blindness and further mismanagement took us further down the rabbit hole. I mentioned to someone the other day that had Andrew Russell came to Carlton instead of Essendon in 2000 and our idiot president kept his mouth shut then we would have had Aaron Hamill that season and we would have been a supremely fit side as Essendon were and we would have been premiers that season IMO. We were good that season but we were not to the level of fitness the Bombers where or even Melbourne for that matter, our success was based on pure class and Kouta. What has this got to do with where we are now? These were the first signs that we were falling behind the rest of the competition. Fitness, list management, sports science. We had a good list but these areas were badly neglected. Are we there yet? Absolutely not!

3. Salary cap scandal. It all came to a massive blow. Years of poor recruiting saw a terrible list in need of a rebuild. Draft penalties stopped the progress there and cost us big. However other issues happened at the same time. Clubs poverty problems meant we nearly went out of existence and relied on hand outs. A mass retirement of leaders of the club meant that the club had no leadership. What followed was a toxic culture that meant players didn't develop and didn't perform. The constant off field issues were one thing but the lacks of drive, discipline and push that leadership provides wasn't there. Talent walked in had a mediocre career and walked out. The club has never fixed the culture and lack of leadership issues. Without leaders the coach's message is not reiterated and if that isn't happening then the coach can't get the players to do what he wants and what is needed to be done to be successful.

4. Our footy department is terrible, look at our injuries, it has to be mismanagement. Pagan never had a chance, he was at a poor club with a poor culture and very few draft picks. Ratten and Teague were rookie coaches and they made typical mistakes rookie coaches are going to make if they have no support. Rookie coaches only work if they are naturally good and have done a really long apprenticeship under a good coach or are going to a strong mature established side and have good support around them. Rookie coaches generally succeed with a good senior assistant around them. These two had none of that. Malthouse came to a terrible list that had no youth coming through, but what was worth is that he was dealing with an older bunch who had been developed without leadership and therefore needed to be changed but could not be changed. He came from Collingwood who had a strong leadership group who backed him up to Carlton who had no leadership at all, only by title. Bolton, no chance, again poorly staffed. We have had one of the the worst footy departments going around for so long we just keep going around in circles. Imagine being half trained in your field or any field really, then all of a sudden getting promoted to the top and told to do that job and you're on your own, no senior people around you to help? This is Carlton's coaching structure.

It's never been the coach, it's always been us. We badly lack people at the club who know what it takes to build a footy department.

This man gets it

 

[Arr0w]

I am not defending Lyon's past actions, but he is hardly guilty of committing violence against women..

If he was, I hardly think Caro would feel comfortable working alongside him on Footy Classified.

I assume RTB has learnt from his mistakes and won't repeat them, let's just let bygones be bygones, he will be our next coach and will do great things for our club and turning around our mediocre culture.

#inrosswetrust

But we will accept sexual harassment instead

 

[Blue Runnings]

I am not defending Lyon's past actions, but he is hardly guilty of committing violence against women..

If he was, I hardly think Caro would feel comfortable working alongside him on Footy Classified.

I assume RTB has learnt from his mistakes and won't repeat them, let's just let bygones be bygones, he will be our next coach and will do great things for our club and turning around our mediocre culture.

#inrosswetrust

But I think the media may make a big deal about it … and the club should be prepared. If it has been decided it’s Ross.