Paid Players In Local Leagues

[timelord]

Originally posted by tige19
I never said that 50-100 bucks a game should be compulsorynot once, i said if thats all blokes would be getting then there wouldnt be a problem.

I never said you did say that, but to make my point I said that it had to be made compulsory so that it would guarentee that every bloke got 50-100 a game. And I said that it WOULD be a problem, contrary to your belief that it wouldn't. A MAJOR problem.

Originally posted by tige19
I have no doubt many blokes just play footy and clubs dont pay them, that is great.

And it should be openly encouraged verbatim - which is why I support super for AFL players.

Originally posted by tige19
Phil nothing you do is gonna stop money been thrown around the leagues, even if there was a ban there would still be money under the table no doubt about it.
The better players in the Leagues and for there clubs should be paid and will always be paid weather you like that or not.

And that's what is destroying the game! The game CAN'T afford it!! If it keeps up there isn't going to be any money to throw around because the game will be DEAD!! (in the country areas at least - and if it dies there then it might as well be dead!)

You are advocating free spending of money to attract players. I favour other means - jobs, land, that sort of stuff. Long term assets. Free spending of money just leads to trouble - even at the AFL level. There just isn't enough to go around! It creates unbalanced competitions which leads to a lack of interest and that leads to even less money which affects the clubs and their ability to function - amongt other things.

Originally posted by tige19
Its plain and simple if a club has money to spend its there choice to do so or not, if a club has no money then they cant spend.

And the number of clubs that have no money is increasing. And it's the increasing numbers of players who won't play for nothing that's causing it.

The ONLY place that one can make money playing footy is at the AFL level - and maybe state level. That's it. If you can't get a game at those levels, then any money that happens to be around should be for the whole club - whichever club that is. Not just the meally mouthed few who are out to make a quick buck!

If only there were more experienced AFL people like Dermott Brereton - who played a season for the Frankston Bombers for gratus! With AFL super - you'd get that happening more often!

Tige, I don't think you really understand the community spirit of the game, what it is, where it comes from and what it's worth. And like I said before re what it's worth - there is no price on it. And the number of people in your shoes is also increasing - and that is cancer for the game!! Don't tell me that can't be stopped!!

 

[tige19]

Originally posted by timelord


Tige, I don't think you really understand the community spirit of the game, what it is, where it comes from and what it's worth. And like I said before re what it's worth - there is no price on it. And the number of people in your shoes is also increasing - and that is cancer for the game!! Don't tell me that can't be stopped!!

I know what your saying means well and your trying to do the right thing, but this is a fact of the game that will not go away.
What i am saying is that if clubs can manage there finances better we would not have this problem.
We need to get a equal drawing board for clubs, say the top 10 players at each club are worthy of pay, this might take away the knuckle heads who just chase money in the bush without having any experience in the AFL or VFL.
Phil i belive that players who have played at AFL or VFL level are entilted to money when going back local.
I agree on some fronts but maybe by bringing in a rule of only playing 10 or so players in the club could weed out that problem you are talking about.

cheers

 

[timelord]

Originally posted by MightyFighting
Does this mean the suburban and country clubs are paying them more than the VFL clubs? Where are they getting this money from?

I think it's got more to do with playing senior footy, MF. With all the VFL clubs - bar North Ballarat, Frankston and Tasmania - having to make room for AFL listed players, people get browned off and go elsewhere. The money is equal I think, but you can't pay a person to play magoos even at state level!

Originally posted by tige19
I know what your saying means well and your trying to do the right thing, but this is a fact of the game that will not go away.

It's got to, Tige - otherwise the game is doomed. And actually your suggestion to follow up that remark is a very good one! Sort of like the restrictions the NBL has on US imports. Far more effective and certainly easier to police than salary caps (which I think is where the weaker Goulburn Valley clubs are being murdered by the strong Kyabram District clubs - the GVFL has a salary cap, the KDFL doesn't).

Originally posted by tige19
Phil i belive that players who have played at AFL or VFL level are entilted to money when going back local.

Not all of them, no. I can't agree with that - because there are players who have played at that level who are just jacksh*t and aren't worth any more to the local club than they were to the AFL or VFL club that 86ed them. Sure - some of them are worth it, in spades. But not all. And certainly not the youngsters who barely have a handful of games under their belt. If they've been 86ed, surely that has to send a message to them? They aren't good enough to be paid!

 

[tige19]

Phil Reserves level VFL is a very good comp, its basically a under 23 comp so it is extremely quick and athletic minded, the barnd of football is very structured and taxing on the body.
So i think VFL 2s are entilted to payments just like the seniors, if it werent for the AFL listed blokes alot of the 2s would be playing 1s. That is why the 2s do get paid, they do exactly the same training as the seniors.

Well Phil im going to have argue this point a little more at a later date. I am off to the Bush to play my 3rd game in the North Central Football league so i can qualify for the finals next week. I know you would be hating me say this cause in your eyes im the typical young footballer killing the sport, hey if there is a opportunity to get some $ im gonna take it.

cheers

 

[timelord]

Originally posted by tige19
Phil Reserves level VFL is a very good comp, its basically a under 23 comp so it is extremely quick and athletic minded, the barnd of football is very structured and taxing on the body.
So i think VFL 2s are entilted to payments just like the seniors, if it werent for the AFL listed blokes alot of the 2s would be playing 1s. That is why the 2s do get paid, they do exactly the same training as the seniors.

I never said they shouldn't be paid while they are on a VFL training list. I said that just because they've been on that training list it doesn't give them an automatic right to demand payment should they go back to the bush on a full time basis.

Originally posted by tige19
Well Phil im going to have argue this point a little more at a later date. I am off to the Bush to play my 3rd game in the North Central Football league so i can qualify for the finals next week. I know you would be hating me say this cause in your eyes im the typical young footballer killing the sport, hey if there is a opportunity to get some $ im gonna take it.

The real question is - are you going purely for the money? If so, then yes, I do hate you for it. But if you are going to support a club and the money is simply a bonus that's different.

Having said that - as you have been at pains to point out - can the club afford to pay you (and whoever else they might be paying?) Would paying to get you up to their club cost them too much in the longer term? If you catch my drift there.

 

[My North]

Originally posted by tige19
Phil Reserves level VFL is a very good comp, its basically a under 23 comp so it is extremely quick and athletic minded, the barnd of football is very structured and taxing on the body.
So i think VFL 2s are entilted to payments just like the seniors, if it werent for the AFL listed blokes alot of the 2s would be playing 1s. That is why the 2s do get paid, they do exactly the same training as the seniors.

Well Phil im going to have argue this point a little more at a later date. I am off to the Bush to play my 3rd game in the North Central Football league so i can qualify for the finals next week. I know you would be hating me say this cause in your eyes im the typical young footballer killing the sport, hey if there is a opportunity to get some $ im gonna take it.

cheers

The VFL reserves is crap. The sooner the VFL clubs **** Off there reserves comp the better the game will be. Players in the VFL reserves would rather be playing in thetr local clubs with there mates and people they grew up with than playing VFL reserves.

 

[tige19]

Originally posted by My North
The VFL reserves is crap. The sooner the VFL clubs **** Off there reserves comp the better the game will be. Players in the VFL reserves would rather be playing in thetr local clubs with there mates and people they grew up with than playing VFL reserves.

That is one of the most dumbest post i have ever seen. Listen mate when you have a educated view of the VFL 2s comp and what players think then post something worth while.
If players didnt wanna play VFL then they wouldnt, most of the guys running in the 2s will sometime get a senior chance. These players are mostly from the TAC or very good young local footballers looking to be seen by someone.

You have no idea mate, please dont make a fool of your self.

cheers

 

[timelord]

Originally posted by tige19
That is one of the most dumbest post i have ever seen. Listen mate when you have a educated view of the VFL 2s comp and what players think then post something worth while.
If players didnt wanna play VFL then they wouldnt, most of the guys running in the 2s will sometime get a senior chance. These players are mostly from the TAC or very good young local footballers looking to be seen by someone.

You have no idea mate, please dont make a fool of your self.

I have to agree, Tige - but it might already be too late! My North's post wasn't just a put down to the VFL reserves. It was a put down to the whole reserve grade concept. He might as well say to every competition around, "get rid of your reserve grade - it serves no good purpose". Like smoke it doesn't!!!

 

[My North]

Originally posted by tige19
That is one of the most dumbest post i have ever seen. Listen mate when you have a educated view of the VFL 2s comp and what players think then post something worth while.
If players didnt wanna play VFL then they wouldnt, most of the guys running in the 2s will sometime get a senior chance. These players are mostly from the TAC or very good young local footballers looking to be seen by someone.

You have no idea mate, please dont make a fool of your self.

cheers

Here is something worthwhile.
My view is from ex players that played at Coburg that I know. These guys came out from the Calder Cannons, to Coburg as many would have this year. These players left for various reasons.

One reason was that Coburg reserves stuggle with numbers in the years they were there and were promised all would be fixed for next week but it never happen.

Your team tige19 (you play for Coburg in the 2nds mostly) struggled to have players in the reserves team this year. Coburg solution was ring up ex players mid week and begging them to come and play for you, when the ex players are at another club. Did Coburg really think that would work. Yeah Right

I will contiune to have my views on the VFL reserves if you like it or not, i dont really care

 

[My North]

Originally posted by timelord
I have to agree, Tige - but it might already be too late! My North's post wasn't just a put down to the VFL reserves. It was a put down to the whole reserve grade concept. He might as well say to every competition around, "get rid of your reserve grade - it serves no good purpose". Like smoke it doesn't!!!

Timelord, it was ony a putdown of the VFL reserves grade. Where did I say the whole reserves grade (I assume you on about local reserves grade teams) was no good?

 

[timelord]

Originally posted by My North
Timelord, it was ony a putdown of the VFL reserves grade. Where did I say the whole reserves grade (I assume you on about local reserves grade teams) was no good?

I didn't say you said it. I said the post smacked of putting down the reserve grade concept as a whole - or to put it another way, you insinuated it. You said that the VFL should get rid of their reserve grade - and then you tried to justify it by observing something that is in fact a VFL SENIOR problem, not reserve grade.

The issue that you are talking about in reply to Tige is caused - not by a refusal by players to play VFL reserves because it's a useless comp - but by the fact that they would normally get SENIOR VFL games - but aren't because of AFL listed players! THAT is the problem! It causes resentment!

So don't go putting down the VFL reserve grade competition, because what you suggested going on your misplaced example there will only make the situation WORSE!

And another point - your example was Coburg ONLY. What about the other VFL clubs that field reserves hmmmmmmmm?

 

[tige19]

My North- We has over 90 players try out to make the list for Coburg Tigers, they selected only 40 odd. The problem didnt lay with the players not wanting to play but with the administration of the club.
I dont think you have alot of an idea of how good the competition (VFL 2s), there are alot of AFL listed players running around and also alot of former senior players.
I remeber playing againts Sandringham in the 2s early in the year and they had Coghlan (Full back of the century), Lachlan Oakley(100odd senior games) both playing. they also had Cam Hunter, Dale Carlson,Alister Nicholson and i forgot but another rookie playing.
Now you cannot say at all that the team with them players in it (alot played 2s for a majority) is no good, in fact that team would have flogged 90% of local sides easily and they were even getting pumped by Northern and Willy

On Coburg, we had a fantastic list to choose from in the 2s to beging with, im not gonna go through the names but about 2 or 3 ex AFL listed players were playing reserves. We also had State under 18 reps State under 18 All Australians, AFL listed player and AFL listed rookie we had a Cannons B&F winner blokes who had trained with AFL clubs for rookie spots. The fact is Richmond had injuries, we had injuries (4 out of 5 ruckman injured) and we had players do the sook cause they werent playins 1s and they ****ed of.
We still managed to finish only a game out of the finals with alot of our list out. I think the club would have learnt from that and next year will be a bit different in regards to list selections.

Cheers

 

[Spackas]

I have been a paid player in the past and found it to be a little bit of a problem. There was a fair bit of pressure on me because I didn't perform to well, due to injuries and a fair bit of travel involved too.
It can be good for clubs to get outside players in I think. We had some good ex-SANFL players at our club who came down to finish off their careers. The younger players (myself included) would get alot of benefit from having these players beside them.
SANFL reserves players only get $50 per game so it is pretty easy to offer them $200 per game and throw in a hire car and get them to play in the country.
There are some who are better than others who will play purely for the cash, and not want anything to do with the club off the field, but there are many who will stick around and really get involved.

 

[footyman]

I had a really poor opinion about the VFL reserves in the past. I've been to the last 3 VFL Grand Finals and have never bothered turning up early for the Grand Final in the 2s because I thought the competition was a joke. But I have seen a bit of the 2s this year and the standard is not as bad as I thought.

The problem with the competition is that Football Victoria treat it as a bit of a joke. They don't bother to put proper team lists in the Footy Record, and they don't put the fixture for the competition in there. Considering they have one of the stupidest fixtures I have ever seen maybe they should do that. At the start of the season, Football Victoria said that the ABC would be giving the 2s a short segment at the start of the telecast where they would show the ladder and the leading goalkickers - they did this for 8 weeks, but when Dave Lennon left, so did this segment.

The best advertisements for the VFL Reserves are blokes like Sam Mitchell, who start off in that grade and work their way up to winning a Liston Trophy and a regular spot at Hawthorn. tige19 already named other AFL listed players who have played well in the 2s this season.

 

[The_Guru]

I think a lot of you guys would be mortified if you knew what most local clubs payed out each year. The Big clubs in the Diamond Valley, Eastern, Essendon, and Western all pay out over $100K a year. Most A grade clubs in the metro leagues play all junior players a minimum of 50 bucks a game. If your not paying out that sort of dough then in reality you aint gonna make the four.

 

[Mobbs]

Doesn't surprise me, Guru, but the city is a bit different.

 

[Mobbs]

This thread has been split in two.

The other subject was Medal Winners In Local Leagues 2003

 

[timelord]

Originally posted by The_Guru
I think a lot of you guys would be mortified if you knew what most local clubs payed out each year. The Big clubs in the Diamond Valley, Eastern, Essendon, and Western all pay out over $100K a year. Most A grade clubs in the metro leagues play all junior players a minimum of 50 bucks a game. If your not paying out that sort of dough then in reality you aint gonna make the four.

Keve might be right about things being different in the city, but that doesn't make it the right thing to do.

And one could argue that it's another reason why country clubs are losing out because the city clubs at suburban level are taking advantage of the consequences of the those social thugs in Canberra (kids coming to Melbourne to find work) when if the jobs were their in the country these kids could play footy THERE. And for gratus because they would still have the community spirit, whereas they wouldn't in the city!!

"If your not paying out that sort of dough then in reality you aint gonna make the four."

And that's why the game is going down the toilet!! Someone's got to do something! *looks in the mirror at that person*

Come on, Spring Street, open up the enquiry into country footy for public submissions! I got plenty to say!

 

[Mobbs]

1. Phil, is that true that the inquiry is NOT open to any public submission? Are we able to attend any forums or is completely closed?

2. One thing I will say that is a testament to city footballers, is that there are many struggling country teams that are stocked up with esx-pats who head back from the city on a weekend to play, and pack their Toranas with workmates or pub friends to help complete country town sides. So that's one bit where communication works. Amusing if not funny to note that its the actual grass roots players themselves that bond together to help each other out, and not administrations! (Examples : Manangatang and Catani both get help from folks driving back from the city for weekends. Oh, and sometimes they get paid, sometimes they get zilch.)

 

[tdubfleet]

No club can be successful without the backing of $$$$ these days. No better example than Southport in the QSFL. Connstantly financial and successful, these days both go hand in hand.

In my experience the problem is if the club runs out of money. Players on the big bucks are 1st to **** off and all the kids who have been in the 2's for the past 2 years have gone as well due to lack of oppurtunity and all of a sudden your struggleing to put a team out.

No better examples than North Brisbane and West Brisbane in the QSFL. Premiers in 95/96, North folded in 96 and couldn't even defend and West Brisbane lost around 70% of the team and couldn't even make the finals.

On 2's VFL, not every kid is fully developed at 18, this comp gives an oppurtunity for kids to hang in there and develop. Not all may go on to the draft but some become handy state leauge players. Think Harrison and Rigg for Springvale spent a lot of time in the two's and have developed quite well as far as I know(havent seen any VFL this year).

 

[Mobbs]

Originally posted by tdubfleet
No club can be successful without the backing of $$$$ these days.

If I can just step in and do a little speculative assumption here.

I don't think its being argued whether or not a club can be successful without being financial, and, to different extents, to be able to woo talent with cash.

I think the statement being made is that it is, at the least unfortunate that this is the case.

Money's influence has grown slowly and surely. From the earliest times that an entry fee to the ground was charged, the 'Record' or 'Footballer' or 'Budget' became 5p for a copy, and to the establishment of a refreshments kiosk, the ball had been set rolling.

I have always been an advocate of a truly amateur-based style of footy being introduced. Got holes you could drive a truck through, but, anyway, here's what I would like to see.

Towns that are now too small to field a team in the nearest league get together for this.

NO reserves. Perhaps NO juniors. Just a senior team, a single team, formed by whoever wants to play. Pro - smaller town can field a team. Con - Players from these smaller towns might already since have become aligned with a larger, neighbouring town's team.

NO registration. NO fees. Maybe gold coin towards reimbursement for land used for the ground.

Players pay their own way, if they need boots/etc.

A waiver developed by a union of these clubs, that players sign on the day which relinquishes liability for injury, theft-loss, etc. COMPREHENSIVE. Can't sue the clubs. Can't sue the union. Can't sue the host. Can't sue a person.

Competition arranged by delegates for fixturing. Gold coin can also assist for trophy for premiers, etc.

NOT affiliated with official football overseeing bodies, eg VCFL/Football Vic. NO official recognition of matches by these bodies, therefore NO clearance issues.

FLEXIBLE zoning limitations. Geozoning but able to evidence a lack of available players to enable extra-zone recruiting.

----------------------

There's much more, that's just a start. I could see my old hometown being able to field a team in these conditions.

I am a fan of IAFC's 9-a-side 'Metro' concept up to the point that they want it to be non-contact. That change is too much for me.

There would be only so many places interested/able, BUT, with today's transport, and perhaps with a once-each fixture (approx 9 matches in a year), heading 200k where otherwise it might have been 80k is no real fuss.

This could save clubs such as Simpson, Dunolly, Moyston-Willaura, Glenthompson, Wunghnu, Lindenow Souths, Cowarrs etc.
It could revive the Dunkelds, Marnoos, Landsboroughs.
Re-individualise the Brims, Berri-Culgoas, Gorokes, Pirron Yallocks.
Shore up the future of Millewa and Omeo league clubs.

I dream again, I know. But every time I turn up to a Bigfooty match, I note that there's people around who would love to play footy if it was just easier to cut through the crap and do so.

 

[tdubfleet]

Originally posted by Mobbenfuhrer

I have always been an advocate of a truly amateur-based style of footy being introduced. Got holes you could drive a truck through, but, anyway, here's what I would like to see.

Not sure about the detail, but believe in the dream.

How about a tax break for all players involved in a club? A $50 deduction for each game! Helps keep people fit and engaged in the community while covering the cost of participation.

Know it's a long shot but hey it why not!

 

[Mobbs]

Originally posted by tdubfleet
Not sure about the detail, but believe in the dream.

How about a tax break for all players involved in a club? A $50 deduction for each game! Helps keep people fit and engaged in the community while covering the cost of participation.

Know it's a long shot but hey it why not!

Its definitely for the health of the nation to encourage folks to participate in sport. Also it would help relieve the health cost budget burden.

 

[tdubfleet]

Originally posted by Mobbenfuhrer
Its definitely for the health of the nation to encourage folks to participate in sport. Also it would help relieve the health cost budget burden.

Maybe not the physio burden!

 

[Mobbs]

Touche!

But how about mental health. Fit body, healthy mind.