Certified Legendary Thread Patrick Cripps and Ah Chee

[Robertio]

What happened to Saad? I honestly don't know.

Same thing he was racially vilified.

 

[Gaspard]

It's time to take the name Cripps and the club Carlton out of this discussion. The problems are in a deeply compromised AFL system.

1. These people have known for some years that concussion is a time bomb for all contact sports and some non contact ones too. They have expressed their concern and a commitment to dealing with concussion. The changes that followed have been terribly inconsistent and often contradictory. Their thrust has been largely cosmetic.

2. They have totally lost the plot on high tackles. The rule was always there, and has had some verbal reinforcement with "the head is sacrosanct" declarations. The "Selwood Shrug" was ignored until a loud mouthed Ginnivan made this impossible. High tackles are now OK if the umpire says so, particularly on some players. This will be litigation heaven for future lawyers.

3. They have shifted the emphasis at the tribunal from the act (bump or whatever) which the players control, to the result (concussion mostly) which they don't. The inconsistency in charges and penalties that have followed from this has had supporters of every club tearing their figurative hair out at one time or another.

4. They have placed the rules and their interpretation in the hands of shall we say a "hard man" with a twin brother coaching a team and expect that we will believe he is impartial or even thoughtful.

5. The total control of media accreditation by the AFL means that honest reactions to AFL decisions are not to be found. Nobody dares or their access to the game is gone.

This is only one area in which the AFL administration is failing the players and the game. Since they have total control of the reporting of the game, an enormous amount of money and a ruthless commitment to maintaining the cash flow above all else, I despair of the game's future. These people are killing it.

 

[raffrox]

If we can establish that a Carlton supporter made the comments, then we absolutely come out and make a statement. Until then, we are just the club who happened to be playing against Ah Chee's team when the comment was made. I mean, there can be some overkill on that score. 18 clubs can come out in support of Ah Chee as a collective, and do so every fortnight when another of these incidents occur. I think it's important that we establish who the person is and then make a statement. I assume they are still waiting to see on that score.

When Saad was villified just 2 weeks earlier, Carlton made a statement and Adelaide made a statement as the person was identified at the ground. I'm not sure that every other team came out and made a statement because it was unnecessary.

This being a social media comment makes it a little trickier perhaps.

You have to spend about 0.2 seconds in this thread to see that this incident has raised angst between supporters and even towards Ah Chee. It happened in a game between the Lions and Blues. When it's our responsibility to stand up against racism and discrimination is a choice that people/teams etc... have to make. It was just a thought.

Called a terrorist by a female Crows supporter at the game 2 weeks ago.

Same thing he was racially vilified.

I completely missed it and obviously is terrible and as bad as what happened to Ah Chee.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

It's time to take the name Cripps and the club Carlton out of this discussion. The problems are in a deeply compromised AFL system.

1. These people have known for some years that concussion is a time bomb for all contact sports and some non contact ones too. They have expressed their concern and a commitment to dealing with concussion. The changes that followed have been terribly inconsistent and often contradictory. Their thrust has been largely cosmetic.

2. They have totally lost the plot on high tackles. The rule was always there, and has had some verbal reinforcement with "the head is sacrosanct" declarations. The "Selwood Shrug" was ignored until a loud mouthed Ginnivan made this impossible. High tackles are now OK if the umpire says so, particularly on some players. This will be litigation heaven for future lawyers.

3. They have shifted the emphasis at the tribunal from the act (bump or whatever) which the players control, to the result (concussion mostly) which they don't. The inconsistency in charges and penalties that have followed from this has had supporters of every club tearing their figurative hair out at one time or another.

4. They have placed the rules and their interpretation in the hands of shall we say a "hard man" with a twin brother coaching a team and expect that we will believe he is impartial or even thoughtful.

5. The total control of media accreditation by the AFL means that honest reactions to AFL decisions are not to be found. Nobody dares or their access to the game is gone.

This is only one area in which the AFL administration is failing the players and the game. Since they have total control of the reporting of the game, an enormous amount of money and a ruthless commitment to maintaining the cash flow above all else, I despair of the game's future. These people are killing it.

Bravo.

Meanwhile, they have the fans infighting because of the inconsistencies. The whole 'we got shafted by the AFL so should the next guy' mentality is designed to keep shifting the goalposts to the point where we accept something that makes the game untenable. Then we sit and lament the state of the game.

The AFL media are by and large there to protect AFL house. They will rebel here and there, especially if their team is involved (i.e Robbo and the Essendon saga), but make no mistake, their access to the game is dependent on them being AFL apologists more often than not.

 

[Hoops]

gibberish or you just dont understand big words?

Settle down! we all know yellowslash is a sensitive guy.

 

[FourthTimeAround]

What do you think of the other major sporting organizations around the world?

I'm not a member of them either. Passive follower of NBA, MLB, NFL in that order.

I am very heavily a Liverpool EPL fan from afar, but has always been only the games themselves and not care much about other teams unless we play them.

Tell you one thing, professional commentators are nice to listen to but. Not changing 20 rules every year is another. Relegation and promotion keeps the interest. No silly fights over who owns what colours is nice to see.

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

Not that it’s important, but his profile picture was a picture of Cripps, so likely just a supporter.

It's disgusting and I have little doubt that unfortunately it probably was a Blues supporter. Those types exist at every club, so we aren't immune, but this is also the type of opportunity some people take advantage of. It could be a troll with a fake account, pretending to be a Carlton supporter, just to make us look bad. The internet is filled with all kinds of opportunistic, faceless weirdos who get off on exactly that kind of thing.
Unfortunately, the odds are that it's just a moron Blues supporter.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

You have to spend about 0.2 seconds in this thread to see that this incident has raised angst between supporters and even towards Ah Chee. It happened in a game between the Lions and Blues. When it's our responsibility to stand up against racism and discrimination is a choice that people/teams etc... have to make. It was just a thought.

I haven't seen any angst towards Ah Chee in this thread to be honest. I can't even fathom why there would be.

I'd have no issue with Carlton coming out and saying that there is no place for racism yada yada, the usual message that gets trotted out, and if the person is found to be a Carlton supporter, their access to our games will be restricted. I also have no problem with them waiting to see who the person is on this occasion. Certainly the media, the Lions and the AFL have the condemnation covered for the moment.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Not that it’s important, but his profile picture was a picture of Cripps, so likely just a supporter.

Oh, in that case, Carlton should make a statement.

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

yep just the one photo where you can make the weak argument he was purely playing the ball without laughing and not the ones immediatly afterwards where hes turned and tucked the shoulder in

I don't think anyone is denying that he braced at the last second though. Whereas plenty are claiming he didn't contest the ball, in spite of the evidence.
Why highlight something that isn't in contention?

 

[Chief]

yep just the one photo where you can make the weak argument he was purely playing the ball without laughing and not the ones immediatly afterwards where hes turned and tucked the shoulder in

The picture was more in response to the idea that he didn't play the ball at all.

 

[Aphrodite]

Not that it’s important, but his profile picture was a picture of Cripps, so likely just a supporter.

Profile pic is a Bulldogs player. Can't quite make it out but it looks like Bont.

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

If we can establish that a Carlton supporter made the comments, then we absolutely come out and make a statement. Until then, we are just the club who happened to be playing against Ah Chee's team when the comment was made. I mean, there can be some overkill on that score. 18 clubs can come out in support of Ah Chee as a collective, and do so every fortnight when another of these incidents occur. I think it's important that we establish who the person is and then make a statement. I assume they are still waiting to see on that score.

When Saad was villified just 2 weeks earlier, Carlton made a statement and Adelaide made a statement as the person was identified at the ground. I'm not sure that every other team came out and made a statement because it was unnecessary.

This being a social media comment makes it a little trickier perhaps.

Disagree. It's implied that a Carlton fan(s) made the comments.
It's not hard and a positive thing to come out and condemn it, while saying that we're working with the Lions and the AFL to identify if it was a member.
It's literally the easiest thing they could in support.

 

[ITCHY EYEBALLS]

Where is the outrage over Matty Kennedy missing the last 2 matches with a broken jaw?
How did this occur? Was it friendly fire, or a collision with an opposition player?
Oh the head is sacrosanct…when it suits an agenda.

 

[Brighton_Diggins]

ok so blues shades off let's look at this. The best word for this is clumsy. And perhaps even reckless/clumsy. Let's call it Flumsy.
Simple fact is he got there a fraction too late and did the ol' half assed bail manoeuvre perhaps inadvertently making it look careless.
Whether that was intentional or not is a hard question to ask in the time frame we're talking about. He needs that slight benefit of reaction time. Watch from the boundary folks. AFL is very very quick. And thats just spectating.

The first two angles he's probably getting off but the third angle really should've sealed his fate. The high contact DID NOT look good at all.

In the end I'm leaning to 2 weeks. early plea 1 week result. I know there's more to this in terms of legal arguments and jargon.
But on the face of the incident he's a very very lucky boy.

For all the saltiness against the blues for him getting off don't worry the footy karma gods will have their say if there is in fact a penalty to pay.

If the demons put us to the sword and Cripps does nothing I feel as though a lot of posters will feel like order has been restored. etc etc

 

[carlton_99]

Does that imply it could still be a Carlton supporter than isn't a member?

Even if it's not a member ban them from attending games. Not sure why wherever it was posted can't just disable their account as well. Racists have no place in our game and in society generally. Embarrassing stuff.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

Hip to the head now? I know some people have been struggling to piece together the actual vision in their heads, but this is a new one.
Give it a ******* spell. You've got 50% more posts than anyone else in this thread and you can't even get the basics of the incident right.

And all the Carlton supporters in this thread do nothing but gaslight.

“There was no bump”
“Cripps’ arms were extended”
“He was contesting the ball”
“Ah Chee jumped into the air”

So which part of Cripps’ anatomy are you going to tell us knocked Ah Chee’s head off now?

 

[FourthTimeAround]

Of course Cripps knew players were around the ball. His contention is that he didn't know that Ah Chee was also jumping for the ball. When Cripps goes for a high ball, he usually turns his body to protect the ball from other players. A lot of players do this in marking contests. Cripps will do this at stoppages. He secures the ball, stands in tackles and distributes. It's his 1 wood.

So your saying he did what he always does, therefore he should not be held responsible for his actions - that he jumped in the air and collided with an opposition players' head was not reasonably foreseeable.

This idea that you can go about doing what you always do, regardless of the situation or the position of other players, is just patently false.

There was no technicality. The appeals tribunal said that Cripps was entitled to contest the ball as he did. The fact that a bump occurred due to the nature of the aerial contest, does not make it avoidable in any logical way as to how the game is played, and does not make it deserving of a suspension.

The appeals tribunal DID allow the appeal on a technicality. That they didn't specifically use the word "bump", which Carlton then used as the basis for appeal. Nothing to do with the nature of the incident itself.

If that was a marking contest and Cripps marked the ball, would you find it worth of suspension? Is that the direction you want the game to take?

But it wasn't a marking contest, so it bears no relevance to this incident.

But for the sake of argument, if you charged into a player like Cripps did in a marking contest, and did not get to the ball - something that gets ignored in all these defences of his actions, the fact that Cripps did not get to the ball - then yes people would question his actions.

I'm allowed to punch the ball in a marking contest. If a player jumps really high in front of me in a marking contest and I see them and decide to follow through and punch them in the head, by any rationale should that be considered acceptable? Of course not.

I still look at that vision and try to understand how anyone thinks that is acceptable these days. And this is from a old fart who can still remember when a coach would drag you from the field if you didn't iron out the opponent.

 

[Chief]

And all the Carlton supporters in this thread do nothing but gaslight.

“There was no bump”
“Cripps’ arms were extended”
“He was contesting the ball”
“Ah Chee jumped into the air”

Which particular supporter said all of those things?

It's disingenuous to say "it was either a bump or a contest - it can't be both!"

If indeed you ever said that. Let's just say that ALL Collingwood supporters said that.

 

[tiger_tough]

Of course. It's called the Trent Cotchin rule

Care to give just one example of this involving Trent Cotchin?

 

[Boxhead_31]

I truly hope that all the Carlton fans now come to an understanding on the back of this decision that when Darren Milburn

Darren Milburn

Age

47

Ht

189cm

Wt

92kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

19.7

5star

K

10.6

4star

HB

9.1

5star

M

6.2

5star

T

2.3

4star

No current season stats available

D

15.0

4star

K

7.4

3star

HB

7.6

5star

M

5.6

5star

T

2.2

4star

did what we now know was contesting the ball with Stephen Silvangi and carried on like pork chops will now send messages of apology to Dasher for their behaviour that day and how they treated him over the consequent years.

They will, won't they?

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

Is it fair to say if this happened earlier in the season (say between rounds 6 and 10) and Cripps got rubbed out and Carlton successfully appealled it, there would be far less outrage ?

Just strikes me a lot of the bitterness and rage comes from the context that it keeps Carlton's final hopes alive.

I honestly don't believe there would be such an extreme reaction if this incident and successful appeal took place months ago.

 

[raffrox]

Is it fair to say if this happened earlier in the season (say between rounds 6 and 10) and Cripps got rubbed out and Carlton successfully appealled it, there would be far less outrage ?

Just strikes me a lot of the bitterness and rage comes from the context that it keeps Carlton's final hopes alive.

I honestly don't believe there would be such an extreme reaction if this incident and successful appeal took place months ago.

Would Carlton appealed the appeal if it was in the middle of the year?

 

[FlowersByIrene]

Where is the outrage over Matty Kennedy missing the last 2 matches with a broken jaw?
How did this occur? Was it friendly fire, or a collision with an opposition player?
Oh the head is sacrosanct…when it suits an agenda.

This is right. An unfortunate sporting incident just like the Ah Chee one. You don't see Carlton fans whining about a suspension.

The fact of the matter is, the only people lamenting Cripp's actions are a bunch of Collingwood, Richmond and Fremantle fans who hate Carlton and a bunch of childish Brisbane supporters who are clearly insecure about their performance. It's embarassing.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

And all the Carlton supporters in this thread do nothing but gaslight.

“There was no bump”
“Cripps’ arms were extended”
“He was contesting the ball”
“Ah Chee jumped into the air”

So which part of Cripps’ anatomy are you going to tell us knocked Ah Chee’s head off now?

All four of those statements are correct, i won't gas light you i'll say it straight to you - you're a crazy person.