Play Nice Patrick Cripps v Marcus Bontempelli

[Cadillac]

Im not saying Bontempelli has gotten better in the last 15 games, but that Cripps will improve over his next 15.

Theres a huge difference between 50+ games and below 50.

Bont is in his 3rd AFL season, Patrick his 2nd.

That's not true at all. Cripps is also in his 3rd season. He made his debut in 2014 just as Bontempelli did. You can't just make things up to fit your narrative.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

That's not true at all. Cripps is also in his 3rd season. He made his debut in 2014 just as Bontempelli did.

Cripps broke his leg in 2014 and played 3 games. Bont played what 15+ games?

Cripp's first real season was last year, his set backs have put him a year behind Bont in development.

 

[Cadillac]

Cripps broke his leg in 2014 and played 3 games. Bont played what 15+ games?

Cripp's first real season was last year, his set backs have put him a year behind Bont in development.

That's just a silly argument. He's still a 3rd year footballer. If we were going to take that into account, we could say Anthony Morrabito is a first year footballer because he's only played around 20 career games.

 

[ManOfClay]

Im not saying Bontempelli has gotten better in the last 15 games, but that Cripps will improve over his next 15.

Theres a huge difference between 50+ games and below 50.

Bont is in his 3rd AFL season, Patrick his 2nd.

He'd want to improve a fair bit in those 15 games.

You are being quite selective here.

 

[ManOfClay]

..
Cripps has the best hands in the game, end of debate. Breaks games apart with his vision and execution.

And the most important part is, he doesn't **** up. He always gets the hands out to a player in better position.

Breaks games apart: plays for a team that has lost 9 games straight.

Doesn't **** it up: Averages nearly four clangers a game. Has 20 more clangers this year than Bontempelli for example (with a grand total of 18 more disposals overall).


You are very biased. Cripps actually has a terrible disposal efficiency for someone who handballs twice for every kick.

Yes, for posterity his DE is 1.7% better than Bontempelli's so on raw stats Cripps looks better but when you look at how many times Bont kicks compared to handballs you can understand. The damning stat is how much Cripps gives the ball up in terms of those clangers.

If you are going to make up fanciful remarks about how good player X is, you are going to need to be able to back it up.


PC is an inside bull but it is clear why clubs had misgivings. The main one being his disposal

 

[Monkey King]

Cripps is a bull don't get me wrong but Bont & Zerrett are match winners IMO.

I don't get this comment. Only last year against your mob Cripps showed his match-winning qualities. Not the only time he's done it, but I at least thought you'd have been paying attention when he did it against your own team.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

Breaks games apart: plays for a team that has lost 9 games straight.

Doesn't **** it up: Averages nearly four clangers a game. Has 20 more clangers this year than Bontempelli for example (with a grand total of 18 more disposals overall).


You are very biased. Cripps actually has a terrible disposal efficiency for someone who handballs twice for every kick.

Yes, for posterity his DE is 1.7% better than Bontempelli's so on raw stats Cripps looks better but when you look at how many times Bont kicks compared to handballs you can understand. The damning stat is how much Cripps gives the ball up in terms of those clangers.

If you are going to make up fanciful remarks about how good player X is, you are going to need to be able to back it up

Yes blame the team Cripps plays for, didn't realise we were comparing Carlton to the Dogs, thought this was the Bontempelli vs Cripps thread.

Cripps has better disposal than Bontempelli - FACT, he also gets far more contested ball than Bont, which means his disposal efficiency SHOULD be less, because it's obviously harder to dispose of the ball in a contested situation, but his isn't, because he's that good.

 

[King_Steele]

I don't get this comment. Only last year against your mob Cripps showed his match-winning qualities. Not the only time he's done it, but I at least thought you'd have been paying attention when he did it against your own team.

That game in NZ he killed it. Nothing Spectacular though.

 

[King_Steele]

Yes blame the team Cripps plays for, didn't realise we were comparing Carlton to the Dogs, thought this was the Bontempelli vs Cripps thread.

Cripps has better disposal than Bontempelli - FACT, he also gets far more contested ball than Bont, which means his disposal efficiency SHOULD be less, because it's obviously harder to dispose of the ball in a contested situation, but his isn't, because he's that good.

Really?

Bont is so classy, its not even debatable. Cripps is a handball king, can't really compare them as far as skills are concerned IMO.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

Really?

Bont is so classy, its not even debatable. Cripps is a handball king, can't really compare them as far as skills are concerned IMO.

You can if you actually watch them both every week like I do.

The media line is - Bont - class, Cripps - grunt, and that's how every pleb see's it because they don't actually pay attention.

 

[Monkey King]

Breaks games apart: plays for a team that has lost 9 games straight.

Team performance is just that.

Doesn't **** it up: Averages nearly four clangers a game. Has 20 more clangers this year than Bontempelli for example (with a grand total of 18 more disposals overall).

You are very biased. Cripps actually has a terrible disposal efficiency for someone who handballs twice for every kick.

Yes, for posterity his DE is 1.7% better than Bontempelli's so on raw stats Cripps looks better but when you look at how many times Bont kicks compared to handballs you can understand. The damning stat is how much Cripps gives the ball up in terms of those clangers.

So Cripps has a better DE, despite playing more on the inside where DE% generally comes down, yet he's got terrible disposal? And your evidence is more clangers? But wait, 22 of the clanger difference is actually accounted for with frees against. Take out the frees (given these have nothing to do with disposal) and Cripps has fewer clangers and better DE%. That's oddly incongruent.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

How is that a "FACT" you're resorting back to your made up lies again to fit your narrative.

Patrick Cripps averages a higher DE% over his career than Bontempelli - i.e a FACT

Yourel argument essentially boils down to - "it's the vibe, the fact I barrack for him and the media pumps him up more than Cripps MUST mean he's better".

 

[Monkey King]

That game in NZ he killed it. Nothing Spectacular though.

Just one of a number of match winning performances and yet you infer he's not a match winner. Hmm ...

 

[SickQwon]

I don't get this comment. Only last year against your mob Cripps showed his match-winning qualities. Not the only time he's done it, but I at least thought you'd have been paying attention when he did it against your own team.

You can add every win in 2015 to that list (avg 130 SC points in wins). Additionally BOG in the Port & Freo games this year.

That being said Bont is a step above Cripps. Favourite player in the league.

 

[ManOfClay]

I know it's not mate.

I'll just wait for you to come up with an explanation as to why Cripps, who averages more contested possessions and thus, should have a lower disposal efficiency, has a higer efficiency than Bontempelli.

Cripps spends his entire game at stoppages. All he needs to do is get the ball and shovel it out to a teammate. We are lead to believe teams need three players to tackle Cripps at a stoppage do by that logic there will always be free players to handball to. Contested possession and effective disposal right there.

Cripps does it brilliantly. But roughly 1 in 3 a times he gets the ball a teammate doesn't get it. And quite an abnormal amount of times an opponent is the one who comes out with the ball -hence the low DE and high clanger count

Meanwhile Bont wins a lot of contested ball, but not as much as Cripps. But if you do watch him as you say you'll see Bontempelli gets tagged heavily so often moves around to break the tag. It's why he gets the ball more on the outside than Cripps. He wins the tough clearances when he needs to but also gets on his bike to do something other than shovel out a handpass. He takes scrubs like greenwood forward and kicks goals on them. Or embarrasses them by getting the ball at stoppages and breaking clear then hitting teammates on the chest or firing out a releasing handball.

In terms of DE you are hanging tightly onto Cripps 71.7% compared to Bont 70%. But given Bont is often kicking and trying to break the game open of course his game will suffer. Even under heavy pressure it is still easier to simply handball to an opponent.

I'm not saying Cripps is bad at what he does. I'm just saying what he does in one area of the game pales in comparison to what Bontempelli does in many areas.

 

[Cadillac]

Patrick Cripps averages a higher DE% over his career than Bontempelli - i.e a FACT

Yourel argument essentially boils down to - "it's the vibe, the fact I barrack for him and the media pumps him up more than Cripps MUST mean he's better".

But it's because he handballs twice as much as he kicks. He's used solely as an inside midfielder while Bont is used to penetrate an opposition defense with his lethal left foot. Ofcourse his DE% won't be as good on paper. But by the eye test Bont wins every time.

If you are using DE% to fit your argument then maybe you should make a comparison thread comparing Cripps to a Wines or a Priddis, who are the same kind of player. Not to a player who's used as an attacking option. It will give your argument a lot more merit.

 

[Monkey King]

... hence the low DE and high clanger count

Despite Cripps actually having a higher DE than Bont and fewer non-frees related clangers.

Nah this tripe has been debunked already. No need to keep on pretending otherwise.

 

[Monkey King]

If you are using DE% to fit your argument then maybe you should make a comparison thread comparing Cripps to a Wines or a Priddis, who are the same kind of player. Not to a player who's used as an attacking option. It will give your argument a lot more merit.

FWIW comparing Cripps DE% to those other inside players; better than Priddis and blows Wines away. His DE for an inside/contested player is actually note worthy. Those posters trying to talk it down here are just being silly.

 

[SickQwon]

FWIW comparing Cripps DE% to those other inside players; better than Priddis and blows Wines away. His DE for an inside/contested player is actually note worthy. Those posters trying to talk it down here are just being silly.

This is what should've been said in the beginning, for the position he plays his DE% is among the best regardless whether he kicks or handballs.

 

[Cadillac]

FWIW comparing Cripps DE% to those other inside players; better than Priddis and blows Wines away. His DE for an inside/contested player is actually note worthy. Those posters trying to talk it down here are just being silly.

Nobody is trying to talk Cripps' skills to hit a target by hand down at all. He's good at what he does. But to use it as a measuring stick to use againts Bontempelli who not only does what Cripps does inside, but also breaks the lines, hits targets up forward and kick goals is just ridiculous.
It's much more difficult to hit a target by foot, than what it is by hand. Patrick Cripps will tell you that.

Priddis has a higher DE% than what Dusty does, would that be fair to use against Dusty? No way.

Again, I want to reiterate that Cripps is a phenomenal player. Best inside mid in the game.

 

[ManOfClay]

Despite Cripps actually having a higher DE than Bont and fewer non-frees related clangers.

Nah this tripe has been debunked already. No need to keep on pretending otherwise.

How do you figure that? Are you saying all Cripps' clangers are down to frees against?

If we go down that road then taking out frees against for the Bont it works out the Bulldogs player has two more clangers for the year. Regardless, 36 clangers is quite high for a player like Cripps who handballs so much. Under pressure or not.

We can go around arguing DE all you like but I don't think a 1.7% difference is worth it. Pretty much the same as 2 clangers (again if we are using your flawed justification that the difference is frees against). The eye test tells you all you need to know: that Bontempelli is the more damaging player. That is hard to debate.

Why does Cripps give away so many frees then? If he always gets the ball out to a teammate and all that? Poor tackling technique? Quick kicks out on the full? Gets caught with the ball when not quickly catching and releasing when at a stoppage?

 

[SickQwon]

How do you figure that? Are you saying all Cripps' clangers are down to frees against?

If we go down that road then taking out frees against for the Bont it works out the Bulldogs player has two more clangers for the year. Regardless, 36 clangers is quite high for a player like Cripps who handballs so much. Under pressure or not.

We can go around arguing DE all you like but I don't think a 1.7% difference is worth it. Pretty much the same as 2 clangers (again if we are using your flawed justification that the difference is frees against). The eye test tells you all you need to know: that Bontempelli is the more damaging player. That is hard to debate.

Why does Cripps give away so many frees then? If he always gets the ball out to a teammate and all that? Poor tackling technique? Quick kicks out on the full? Gets caught with the ball when not quickly catching and releasing when at a stoppage?

High tackles...nearly every time. Being a monster of a human is his gift but also his curse. lol

 

[ManOfClay]

High tackles...nearly every time. Being a monster of a human is his gift but also his curse. lol

Strange Bont, a similar sized player who lays a lot of tackles, doesn't appear to have this issue

 

[FlowersByIrene]

Nobody is trying to talk Cripps' skills to hit a target by hand down at all. He's good at what he does. But to use it as a measuring stick to use againts Bontempelli who not only does what Cripps does inside, but also breaks the lines, hits targets up forward and kick goals is just ridiculous.
It's much more difficult to hit a target by foot, than what it is by hand. Patrick Cripps will tell you that.

Priddis has a higher DE% than what Dusty does, would that be fair to use against Dusty? No way.

Again, I want to reiterate that Cripps is a phenomenal player. Best inside mid in the game.

Dusty is a hack by foot so yes I would use that as a measure lol. Dusty's poor DE is astonishing considering every second possession is a simple one-two handball to a player in a worse position

 

[Monkey King]

How do you figure that? Are you saying all Cripps' clangers are down to frees against?

Yes. Every single one of those 20 extra clangers are accounted for by frees against ... more in fact.

Your mistake was to assume all clangers as disposal errors.