Peter Bell : "Jobe should be stood down" - ADEL ADDY

[60sbomber]

misguided notion? LOL.

Which part of the notion is misguided? The one where Essendon are running around with a team that were juiced up for all of last year and most of the pre-season this year?

Or are we misguided about the part where Jobe Watson admits he took an illegal drug?

Whether they were "juiced up" is what ASADA is investigating now. But you, and he rest of the lynch mob on here, are frothing at the mouth over why there has been no punishment already implemented.

Peter Bell may be a qualified lawyer, but hopefully he never gets to be a judge, or if he does, someone reminds him that the case has to be heard, and guilt established before you hand out the sentence.

By the way, whether the drug Watson consented to taking was illegal is something he, the Essendon Football club disputes, and again you want to jump the gun and preempt the outcome. WADA might think it falls under S0 under its code, but that provision is very much at issue. Just because the prosecutor says it is illegal doesn't mean it is.

 

[Jab Whatsin]

Peter Bell may be a qualified lawyer, but hopefully he never gets to be a judge, or if he does, someone reminds him that the case has to be heard, and guilt established before you hand out the sentence.

Actually you can still be thrown in the slammer pending a trial when you have confessed to the allegation. Like our Melbourne rapist who confessed to the rape and murder... he wasn't let out so he could await his day in court because he already admitted guilt.

By the way, whether the drug Watson consented to taking was illegal is something he, the Essendon Football club disputes, and again you want to jump the gun and preempt the outcome. WADA might think it falls under S0 under its code, but that provision is very much at issue. Just because the prosecutor says it is illegal doesn't mean it is.

The law is very clear. It falls under S0 and is illegal. It is not the prosecutor saying it is illegal it is the lawmaker. Essendon are trying to get off on a technicality which nobody seems to be actually able to explain.

As soon as Jab admitted to taking a banned substance he should have been suspended pending charges.

 

[Jab Whatsin]

Don't forget Spike McVeigh

LOL.. Spike McVeigh initially came out swinging like a bride at the alter refusing to believe her husband to be has been cheating on her.

As time has gone on Spike's bravado and confidence has been taking a battering as he realised just how much evidence is stacking up for how ****ed up his club was.

 

[winnyblues]

Jobe Watson has brought the game into disrepute and should stand down.

 

[groga]

AFL 360 Mark Maclure said it best.

It's the players responsibility to check what they are tacking.

ESSENDON ARE SCREWED!

 

[60sbomber]

Actually you can still be thrown in the slammer pending a trial when you have confessed to the allegation. Like our Melbourne rapist who confessed to the rape and murder... he wasn't let out so he could await his day in court because he already admitted guilt.

The law is very clear. It falls under S0 and is illegal. It is not the prosecutor saying it is illegal it is the lawmaker. Essendon are trying to get off on a technicality which nobody seems to be actually able to explain.

As soon as Jab admitted to taking a banned substance he should have been suspended pending charges.

Re "when you have confessed to the allegation" and the rapist analogy -
Watson has not yet been charged with anything. He can't confess to the allegation until or unless a charge is brought against him. He didn't "admit guilt". He believes what he consented to being administered with was legal and believes he is not guilty of any wrongdoing. Like what he said or not, but don't distort it into something it isn't.

Re "The law is very clear..." etc -
That's just the point, the law is not clear at all! WADA have rules they have written themselves and then interpreted themselves, but ultimately a court might have to decided how the rule should be interpreted. The phrase "approved for therapeutic use by any government health authority" is a much greyer definition than WADA care to admit. Does GRAS status in the USA equal approval by a government health authority? Does the fact that not all pharmaceuticals need to be approved by TGA in Australia before use impact what the definition and requirement for "approval" is in Australia? Does the fact that AOD9604 is legal to be administered in Australia on the prescription of a medical practicioner when prepared by a compounding chemist constitute "approval for human therapeutic use"?

Jobe Watson most certainly shouldn't be stood down until all those issues have been determined.

You're jumping the gun, just like all the haters.

PS Are you also concerned about how a "juiced up" Jack Trengove is going at Melbourne?

 

[60sbomber]

Didnt Watson Senior say last Friday that the EFC will almost certainly incure serious sanctions?

Is Tim jumping the gun?

No he isn't actually. He is not prejudging and saying what he believes should happen. He is saying that it is becoming increasingly clear that the AFL will feel the need to appease the howling and baying of oppostion supporters and the media with some sort of sanctions.

You've got to admit, the AFL is pragmatic, and will bend with the wind (gale in this case) if it suits their purpose. The hysterical outrage that is being vented will have an impact, rightly or wrongly.

 

[bad setanta]

Sick of this innocent little lamb routine about the players, FFS even Kyle bloody Reimers knew it was right on the edge, if the players don't get bans this sport is a disgrace! The onus was on them.

 

[bad setanta]

Re "when you have confessed to the allegation" and the rapist analogy -
Watson has not yet been charged with anything. He can't confess to the allegation until or unless a charge is brought against him. He didn't "admit guilt". He believes what he consented to being administered with was legal and believes he is not guilty of any wrongdoing. Like what he said or not, but don't distort it into something it isn't.

Re "The law is very clear..." etc -
That's just the point, the law is not clear at all! WADA have rules they have written themselves and then interpreted themselves, but ultimately a court might have to decided how the rule should be interpreted. The phrase "approved for therapeutic use by any government health authority" is a much greyer definition than WADA care to admit. Does GRAS status in the USA equal approval by a government health authority? Does the fact that not all pharmaceuticals need to be approved by TGA in Australia before use impact what the definition and requirement for "approval" is in Australia? Does the fact that AOD9604 is legal to be administered in Australia on the prescription of a medical practicioner when prepared by a compounding chemist constitute "approval for human therapeutic use"?

Jobe Watson most certainly shouldn't be stood down until all those issues have been determined.

You're jumping the gun, just like all the haters.

PS Are you also concerned about how a "juiced up" Jack Trengove is going at Melbourne?

That argument has been used a hundred times on here by bomber fans and it's been wrong a hundred times

 

[Admiral Byng]

No he isn't actually. He is not prejudging and saying what he believes should happen. He is saying that it is becoming increasingly clear that the AFL will feel the need to appease the howling and baying of oppostion supporters and the media with some sort of sanctions.

You've got to admit, the AFL is pragmatic, and will bend with the wind (gale in this case) if it suits their purpose. The hysterical outrage that is being vented will have an impact, rightly or wrongly.

It's not about Essendon and the AFL any more. It is about the reputation of Australian sport in general.

 

[60sbomber]

I didnt arrive at that conclusion from what Tim said last friday.

The media? The media has almost exclusively been supporting your club with apologetics and distractions

I am not sure what your argument is to be frank - what do you think should happen?

My god! Can you even read?
My argument is don't judge the outcome until the investigation is over, the ASADA report is made public, Essendon disclose all the relevant facts, and if there is to be a charge, tribunal hearings occur at which the defence will be put forward.
Until then you are jumping the gun and prejudging based on incomplete information.
I'll tell you what I think should happen when all the facts are available, and not before. And you should do the same.

PS the media have been a disgrace throughout this whole saga. If this were a court case, they would all be had up for contempt of court and for prejudicing the fair trial of anyone accused.

 

[60sbomber]

That argument has been used a hundred times on here by bomber fans and it's been wrong a hundred times

Great logic. Well argued. You're very convincing.
Try addressing the issues in my post. If you don't (=can't) then they stand unchallenged.

 

[rose jam]

The only thing Essendon can argue is whether the rules/laws are fair. But the AFL signed up to them, so they must exercise them.

Doesnt' matter if you think they are fair or not, they are there and must be applied.

Watson must stand down (as any other world athlete does when admitting to taking a banned substance)
Every player involved must be suspended
Every official involved must be sacked
The club must be fined/points removed/draft positions lost
Watson must rlose his bronwlow

That is the consequence of not adhering to the rules

 

[KennyHunter9]

Watson has pleaded guilty to using a banned substance. Surely all we are awaiting now is the sentencing, and whatever mitigating circumstances Watson may raise can be discussed then.

Given that he signed a form saying he was taking AOD, there's not much by way of mitigation anyway.

 

[Grwin]

You can't unintentionally take performance enhancing drugs. You only get a benefit if you do it for a prolonged period like a series of jabs or pills combined with training otherwise there's no point.
So if you are innocent but receiving jabs after signing a consent form, but not suspicious you are either in self denial, incredibly naïve/stupid, being lied to.
Or cheating.
You would think if you were an experienced player made to do something you have never encountered before, wouldn't you think you would at least ring asada yourself for piece of mind to double check. I could forgive young players who may not have known better who unfortunately could/will suffer if they were part of the program.
But Watson a champion of the game who's being around for while jeez it looks bad.

 

[jenny61_99]

What do you reckon the AFL should be doing?

Is it up to the AFL to issue infraction notices?

Yes.

 

[tigerdan]

Watson has pleaded guilty to using a banned substance. Surely all we are awaiting now is the sentencing, and whatever mitigating circumstances Watson may raise can be discussed then.

Given that he signed a form saying he was taking AOD, there's not much by way of mitigation anyway.

No, you see Jobe only 'believed' it was AOD but it was really a placebo that he was taking!

P.S.

 

[Peter Neal]

It's not about Essendon and the AFL any more. It is about the reputation of Australian sport in general.

absolutely. Everyday this goes on, AFL is being undermined.

Last night Maclure compared him to Lance Armstrong. Now on the one hand, that may seem harsh. But similar to Lance, he shouldn't be allowed to compete because he's admitted to taking a prohibited substance.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

LOL... I really hope the mods do us a favour and keep this board open when this is all over. The pain will be epic

 

[60sbomber]

You can't unintentionally take performance enhancing drugs. You only get a benefit if you do it for a prolonged period like a series of jabs or pills combined with training otherwise there's no point.
So if you are innocent but receiving jabs after signing a consent form, but not suspicious you are either in self denial, incredibly naïve/stupid, being lied to.
Or cheating.
You would think if you were an experienced player made to do something you have never encountered before, wouldn't you think you would at least ring asada yourself for piece of mind to double check. I could forgive young players who may not have known better who unfortunately could/will suffer if they were part of the program.
But Watson a champion of the game who's being around for while jeez it looks bad.

Have any of you thought about why Dank and Essendon players would sign up to constent forms for AOD9604 if they didn't genuinely believe it was legal to use?
Think about it. The only evidence that it was used has come from their own recorded evidence and admissions. There were no blood tests or anything else that would have proved they used it. If they were trying to cheat, why would they record it on a form and sign it?

It is very obvious that they believed it was legal. The question now is why did they believe that, and was that belief soundly based?
We still do not have the full answer to that, only speculation.

 

[ScallyWag1]

absolutely. Everyday this goes on, AFL is being undermined.

Last night Maclure compared him to Lance Armstrong. Now on the one hand, that may seem harsh. But similar to Lance, he shouldn't be allowed to compete because he's admitted to taking a prohibited substance.

Lance was banned BEFORE he admitted to taking anything. Circumstantial evidence was enough.

Who'd have thought cycling would show more integrity on this issue than the AFL

 

[Peter Neal]

Have any of you thought about why Dank and Essendon players would sign up to constent forms for AOD9604 if they didn't genuinely believe it was legal to use?
Think about it. The only evidence that it was used has come from their own recorded evidence and admissions. There were no blood tests or anything else that would have proved they used it. If they were trying to cheat, why would they record it on a form and sign it?

It is very obvious that they believed it was legal. The question now is why did they believe that, and was that belief soundly based?
We still do not have the full answer to that, only speculation.

That's a moot point because taking a prohibited drug is a strict-liability offence - claiming ignorance is no defence. It is relevant to each player's penalty, though.

Remember, these are players making big $ - you'd think they'd double check the information of a drug before using it because their livelihood is at stake and the WADA/ASADA rules are so strict - especially since they were involved in multiple, on-going injections of the drug. A "new frontier" of injections, to quote the captain.

 

[blackcat]

Peter Bell wants Jobe stood down cos he is a short @rse at 5 foot nothing, with littleman syndrome, and jobe is 190 cm odd. Bell has inferiority complex at the urinal

 

[Barkly St End]

An experimental team doping program using drugs not approved for human consumption and using players as lab rats is far more serious.

The Sam Riley case is ancient history in the world of sports doping, the codes have been rewritten and strengthened since then so it's completely irrelevant.

Nevertheless - Sam Riley tested positive, actually tested positive, to a listed substance, ie a substance specifically listed and specifically banned under WADA.

What do we have with Essendong so far?

Not a lot - to be perfectly frank.

 

[Barkly St End]

Sam got done for a positive test for dextropropoxyphene, which she claimed was in a headache tablet given to her by her coach. Now I tend to believe her because I can't think of how that drug would help her perform.

Oh, you believe her!

Well why didn't you say so!

That makes all the difference, doesn't it?

But Hird and Bomber (and the Bombers) - you'd trust them as far as you can throw them!