Peter Siddle

[BluesMan]

We're talking an ability to take wickets while staying fit and not getting carted all over the joint.

You must have a short memory of Siddle yes? How do you suspect BF dubbed him "right arm poo"? Though this looks like its in the past, and he has learnt to become a quality bowler. We all love Sids and the attitude he brings to the team.
Even still, Lee is still better as it stands imo, but that opinion changes from person to person so it's up in the air.

 

[Hodgepodge]

You must have a short memory of Siddle yes? How do you suspect BF dubbed him "right arm poo"?

Prematurely.

 

[Underdog]

As for Hilfenhack, yes he bowled an extra over, but when you bowl crap all day you don't deserve any praise for it.

This "Hilfenhack" you speak of has a superior average and economy then Peter Siddle.

He mightn't be at his most threatening form at the moment but you look moronic when you label him as a hack whilst blowing a load over Siddle.

 

[DrVanNostrand]

If only "Hilfenhack" could have bowled two full tosses to tailenders....could have been the hero of the nation.

 

[Phone]

i mean 'Hilfenhack' just wasn't even trusted to bowl which seems a bit worse.

 

[Yidaki]

Don't mind Hilfy. However, he needs to step it up a bit and become a legitimate swing bowler.

 

[CAS79]

i mean 'Hilfenhack' just wasn't even trusted to bowl which seems a bit worse.

Hey he got Du Plusses out..... Well would have if we had a wicketkeeper.

 

[Phone]

And Smith too. His performance all match was a bit strange. Clarke at times didn't seem that keen to bowl him, but he wasn't sending junk or anything. Did look a bit toothless at times, but I dunno know, I thought he should have got more than the one over he got in the final hour

 

[Underdog]

i mean 'Hilfenhack' just wasn't even trusted to bowl which seems a bit worse.

Sure, as I said, he's not in his most threatening form at the moment.

However, that does not make him a hack - particularly when Siddle is being treated like a king.

Here's more on their records.
44.9 % of Hilfy's wickets come against the top order, 27.6% against the middle and 27.6% against the tail.
30.2 % of Siddle's wickets come against the top order, 38.1% against the middle and 31.7% against the tail.

 

[TheTigerEffect]

Big effort today, but proved why he's not a spearhead at this level.

Hilfenhack on the other hand once again proved why he's not a test-quality bowler - period. Just as Wade proved likewise in the wicketkeeping department. Come back Haddin, all is forgiven. Bet yet - Paine, Triffit or Neville.

We desperately need an upgrade on Lyon. The most non-threatening test spinner since Murray Bennett.

Lyon isn't a bad spinner. Yesterday though, was an ideal spinner's situation. Runs aren't a problem, just get the wickets. Gazza was just bowling flat stuff that turned a little and keeping his RPO down. He needed to loop more up and take his time when bowling; especially in those last couple of overs. The loop was needed to provide that bit of drift and allows the ball to turn more and bounce. That would have given us more of a chance for wickets. That Kallis wicket is what he needed to try and do 5 times an over.

He has big scalps and there is little doubt he can turn the ball however he lacks both a killer instinct and an ability to read the match situation. Even Clarkey, when he bowled, was offering up more variation and trying different things in order to break through. He bowled 50-odd overs which was obviously very tiring however if that was the case, he should have had a break at the beginning of the final session and had Warner bowling.

He will stay as the number 1 spinner for a while but there won't be a time near selection when everyone says, yes, Lyon is a shoe-in. The only other spinners that are doing anything in the Sheffield Shield are the likes of Steve O'Keefe and Michael Beer. As much as I like O'Keefe, I can't really see them giving him a call up.

It may just be there are some spinner playing district and just normal club cricket that makes a rise to state cricket that will have a bigger impact. I don't really think age is such a problem any more. We could find a spinner making his debut at 30 years old and it is solely based on ability but at the moment, there are limited options for the Australian spinning role.

He will probably do his job over this summer and be our number 1 spinner in India and the Ashes series. There will be a time though, when he has some serious competition for that spot though. Muirhead from the Bushrangers will likely be looked at over the next few years seeing as everyone seems to love leggies.

 

[Carbine Chaos]

Muirhead from the Bushrangers will likely be looked at over the next few years seeing as everyone seems to love leggies.

Assuming this post is tongue in cheek given Muirhead hasn't even played a Shield match yet?

 

[Phone]

Already a bit of hype about him. Although Berry has created most of that and he probably wants to produce his own little shane warne.

 

[TheTigerEffect]

Assuming this post is tongue in cheek given Muirhead hasn't even played a Shield match yet?

Not so much tongue in cheek. I know he hasn't played yet but there is a lot of hype surrounding him and he recently got a 7-for for Melbourne Uni (or whoever he plays for). For what it's worth, I don't necessarily think he is the answer, but all the selectors like having a leg-spinner to turn to.

If he wasn't injured, Jon Holland would have been close to a game. He was taken into consideration before the series but that point is moot now that he is out for the summer.

As I said, there is no real clear cut choice for a replacement for Lyon but it certainly isn't doom and gloom. He is a decent option.

We could bring back our specialist straight-break bowler if we really wanted.....

 

[Carbine Chaos]

If he wasn't injured, Jon Holland would have been close to a game. He was taken into consideration before the series but that point is moot now that he is out for the summer.

Some may call me biased, but I think Beer should still be ahead of Holland in the left arm orthodox stakes.

 

[TheTigerEffect]

Some may call me biased, but I think Beer should still be ahead of Holland in the left arm orthodox stakes.

Well, as I said earlier, Beer is one of possibly 2 spinners that have any chance of challenging Lyon in the next 6 months. His economy rate is very good and he does try and vary his bowling. O'Keefe is the other guy and he has also got very good economy and a good average. He can bat as well so maybe he is slightly ahead of Beer? It's those two and then daylight for backups.

 

[Carbine Chaos]

Well, as I said earlier, Beer is one of possibly 2 spinners that have any chance of challenging Lyon in the next 6 months. His economy rate is very good and he does try and vary his bowling. O'Keefe is the other guy and he has also got very good economy and a good average. He can bat as well so maybe he is slightly ahead of Beer? It's those two and then daylight for backups.

They don't seem to like O'Keefe at the selection table, so I reckon Beer is the clear number 2. Has developed a lot since he came to WA and he's a really good player now IMO. Didn't look out of place in his 2nd test at all.

 

[Ill Chicken]

Lyon isn't a bad spinner. Yesterday though, was an ideal spinner's situation. Runs aren't a problem, just get the wickets. Gazza was just bowling flat stuff that turned a little and keeping his RPO down. He needed to loop more up and take his time when bowling; especially in those last couple of overs. The loop was needed to provide that bit of drift and allows the ball to turn more and bounce. That would have given us more of a chance for wickets. That Kallis wicket is what he needed to try and do 5 times an over.

He has big scalps and there is little doubt he can turn the ball however he lacks both a killer instinct and an ability to read the match situation. Even Clarkey, when he bowled, was offering up more variation and trying different things in order to break through. He bowled 50-odd overs which was obviously very tiring however if that was the case, he should have had a break at the beginning of the final session and had Warner bowling.

He will stay as the number 1 spinner for a while but there won't be a time near selection when everyone says, yes, Lyon is a shoe-in. The only other spinners that are doing anything in the Sheffield Shield are the likes of Steve O'Keefe and Michael Beer. As much as I like O'Keefe, I can't really see them giving him a call up.

It may just be there are some spinner playing district and just normal club cricket that makes a rise to state cricket that will have a bigger impact. I don't really think age is such a problem any more. We could find a spinner making his debut at 30 years old and it is solely based on ability but at the moment, there are limited options for the Australian spinning role.

He will probably do his job over this summer and be our number 1 spinner in India and the Ashes series. There will be a time though, when he has some serious competition for that spot though. Muirhead from the Bushrangers will likely be looked at over the next few years seeing as everyone seems to love leggies.

Sulimen Benn had the same issue though a few years ago and he is a far better bowler than Lyon, then again he didn't really have the bowling pressure down the other end to give him a hand either.

 

[Hellgood]

They don't seem to like O'Keefe at the selection table, so I reckon Beer is the clear number 2. Has developed a lot since he came to WA and he's a really good player now IMO. Didn't look out of place in his 2nd test at all.

Yeah he has become a pretty solid first class cricketer ever since getting a very premature baggy green in a show of desperation from the selectors of the time. Did bowl pretty well in the West Indies too, so I hope that he stays in the selectors thinking. I reckon he could play a role in the shorter formats if Doherty starts struggling (which he hasn't yet).

Not too sure about Holland. The selectors like him and have liked him in the past. I see him more of a one day bowler than a test candidate though.

 

[DaRick]

Sulimen Benn had the same issue though a few years ago and he is a far better bowler than Lyon, then again he didn't really have the bowling pressure down the other end to give him a hand either.

A massive, massive call.

Benn was very tall so he could be a handful on wickets with some bounce and he could vary his flight cleverly at times, but he was a very inconsistent bowler. He could bowl a tight probing spell and take a 5-fer, but he could also go for 0/120 at a fair clip, which is why his Test average is almost 42. True, he didn't really have great quicks at the other end (though Taylor, Edwards and in particular Roach were all useful at least), but you simply couldn't rely on him to bowl well consistently enough. I think that's why he's no longer playing Test cricket.

Lyon's peak may not touch Benn's, but he's infinitely more consistent and has done pretty well considering he has to bowl in Australia, which is not really an off-spinners paradise in the main.

 

[Ducky Tie]

Would have been interesting to see who the selectors took to India next year if Holland hadn't got injured. I don't rate him or Beer highly tbh. I would have thought there is a very good chance of Beer going over and getting at least a couple of games now. I'd like sok to get a go but just can't see it happening.

 

[Mr Meeseeks]

Definitely one of the best. At least on par with Steyn. Stuart Broad from England is also a very good bowler who should be right up there in considerations when talking about the best.

I chuckled when you suggested Siddle was best in the world, I thought to myself 'that explains it' when you threw Broads name out there too. You dont appear to have a clue.

Anderson and Swann are more dangerous than Broad and thats in his own team!

Siddle is a belter, an honest tryer who will never be a world beater but he needs to be in the side while we develop the strike bowlers (provided they stop breaking down)

 

[DaRick]

Would have been interesting to see who the selectors took to India next year if Holland hadn't got injured. I don't rate him or Beer highly tbh. I would have thought there is a very good chance of Beer going over and getting at least a couple of games now. I'd like sok to get a go but just can't see it happening.

Honestly, I think Lyon's not the finished article yet - bear in mind he just turned 25 and has been playing Tests for little over a year. Even Swann didn't debut with England until he was almost 30. Spinners tend to mature with age. Such maturity may come naturally or be forced upon them, like it was with Shane Warne after injury forced him to learn new tricks and not rely as much on his flipper (hell, even he took a year to establish himself the first time around).

I'm not saying that Nathan Lyon is Shane Warne but based on the circumstances we find ourselves in, he's done enough to deserve an extended run.

 

[Ducky Tie]

I'm certainly not saying play any of the three I mentioned ahead of Lyon, I think Lyon is clearly our best option. I'm talking about as a second spinner as I would have though there will be at least a couple of tests in India next year where we will play a couple of spinners.

 

[Shupe]

I chuckled when you suggested Siddle was best in the world, I thought to myself 'that explains it' when you threw Broads name out there too. You dont appear to have a clue.

Anderson and Swann are more dangerous than Broad and thats in his own team!

Siddle is a belter, an honest tryer who will never be a world beater but he needs to be in the side while we develop the strike bowlers (provided they stop breaking down)

The WCE board has done a mock cricket draft, which will be voted on this cricket board, so I may have another agenda here

I don't believe any of the opinions i've posted in this thread or a few others around.

 

[DaRick]

I'm certainly not saying play any of the three I mentioned ahead of Lyon, I think Lyon is clearly our best option. I'm talking about as a second spinner as I would have though there will be at least a couple of tests in India next year where we will play a couple of spinners.

Ah I misunderstood you. I've done that twice in the same night already. I should maybe read posts a bit more carefully than I am - or maybe my concentration levels are down.

Beer does strike me as a reasonably competent second spinner, though we should consider SOK yes. I have heard that SOK can bowl a bit flat sometimes, but in India that doesn't matter so much. Judging by Kumble's success there, I wonder whether spearing it in there is actually the best option.