Exactly. No one wins a flag from 7th.. Play as many games into the kids as possible.
Analysis Pick Mitch Harvey now, not in 2017!!
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Embarrassing really.
charcolechaddy
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we need to play him because he is a beast who can kick, this is what we are lacking up forward.
Someone we can kick to one out and know he will compete and keep the ball in the area.
Someone we can kick to one out and know he will compete and keep the ball in the area.
I'd love to see Hinkley get some games into our young key position players. He loves to blood the mids/flankers early but for some reason has some strong opinion about giving the KPPs a lot of time to develop.
HOWEVER, as has been mentioned once or twice but never really acknowledged, Harvey really did SFA in his NAB challenge match (3 hb, 1 k, 1 m, 0 tackles, 0 scores). It was only NAB challenge with a very young Port against a strong Richmond, but that's still what happened. The power of key defenders in the AFL is an order of magnitude greater than the SANFL with greater speed, height, and strength so we can't just expect Harvey will pull out the quality of games he is in the SANFL if he did get an AFL call up.
Again, I'm not necessarily saying he shouldn't be picked (if we don't get Ryder back for Carlton) just that we should temper our expectations a little if he does get picked. We've all seen it before that if a debutant has a pretty down debut there will be plenty of armageddon talk about a wasted pick and blah blah.
HOWEVER, as has been mentioned once or twice but never really acknowledged, Harvey really did SFA in his NAB challenge match (3 hb, 1 k, 1 m, 0 tackles, 0 scores). It was only NAB challenge with a very young Port against a strong Richmond, but that's still what happened. The power of key defenders in the AFL is an order of magnitude greater than the SANFL with greater speed, height, and strength so we can't just expect Harvey will pull out the quality of games he is in the SANFL if he did get an AFL call up.
Again, I'm not necessarily saying he shouldn't be picked (if we don't get Ryder back for Carlton) just that we should temper our expectations a little if he does get picked. We've all seen it before that if a debutant has a pretty down debut there will be plenty of armageddon talk about a wasted pick and blah blah.
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Yet Richmond have played both Liam McBean and Todd Elton this year who both performed with 4 or less disposals in the same NAB challenge game.
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I saw Jono Brown interviewd a month or so back by Mike Sheahan, and apparently he failed to record a stat in his first AFL game, in someting like 75% time on the ground.
I'm not comparing Harvs to Brown of course, but the kid has something about him, and there is no doubt he can tonk the ball out of sight, and just as importantly he can take a very strong grab.
McBean has only had 5 marks, 9 kicks, and 1 behind in his two games.
Elton is worse, and he has been on their list for a few years now.
This kind of proves my point. I'm not saying don't pick Harvey, just be prepared that he'll come out and only get a few touches and no scoreboard impact in his first several games.
RussellEbertHandball
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Jonathan Brown's debut game Rd 5 2000 v Adelaide, the bottom team at that stage of 2000, as an 18.5 year old
0 kicks, 0 handballs, 0 marks, 1 tackle
how do you reckon he went after that earth shattering confidence game?
I dont think Harvey could produce less than Brown did on debut. This isnt about gifting games to Harvey, its about finding out if he can contribute at AFL level. Its also about picking the correct sized side. It was a disgrace that both Sam Gray and Robbie Gray had to play on Harry Taylor combined for about 35-40% of the game, and that wasnt because we had an injury or two to our tall forwards.
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just dont pick him never even try.with him we may aswell consist with the ****ing spud hobbit ff
Where did I mention anything about his confidence?
I specifically mentioned that it was our supporters that I was concerned about in that there will likely be a lot of trashing him going on if he doesn't set the world on fire from day dot.
And I never said it would be gifting games to Harvey, I even mentioned that for some reason Hinkley is prepared to blood the mids and flankers far earlier than he is our KPPs. I'd love to see Harvey/Shaw get given a go, heck it'd even be good to see Austin given a game due to his consistently solid performances in the SANFL.
RussellEbertHandball
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yes sorry, it was another poster a couple of pages back who said if we pick him we could destroy his confidence. Reading 1954's comment about Brown I mixed replying to 2 posts with only quoting yours. The gifting comment didnt relate to your post but a couple of other comments.
I saw Jono Brown interviewd a month or so back by Mike Sheahan, and apparently he failed to record a stat in his first AFL game, in someting like 75% time on the ground.
I'm not comparing Harvs to Brown of course, but the kid has something about him, and there is no doubt he can tonk the ball out of sight, and just as importantly he can take a very strong grab.
Yeah, if we could get the ball in his hands it's pretty much "put down your glasses" when he gets a set shot on goal. What a pure, magnificent kick he has.
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He should be the full forward who does NOT run up the ground and should stay in the forward 50 with a crumber nearby.
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Which brings us back to the issue if you are not within a kick of the play then the opposition have players who are loose and you will get carved up. Every one would love a stay at home forward Jay would love to wait back there rather than bust his guts running back on the turnover. It's just not reality. Show me the last team that won a game with a stay at home forward. The last one I can think of was watching Stuart Dew playing for Centrals he had the flu didn't leave the goal square kicked 6 but that's awhile ago.
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Wasn't at the game only watching on TV did see Hawkins in the middle but is there a chart of where he ran on the ground it would be interesting.
RussellEbertHandball
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I dont think anyone here believes you have to stay in the 9m x 6.4m goal square area.
Look at Adelaide Oval dimensions, the CHF centre square line at the southern end of the centre square is 59m from the southern goal line and 109 m from the northern goal line. There is no need for Harvey to play north of that line if Port were kicking to the southern end. He is fit enough to run around in that 59m x 125m wide area. If the ball is 30m from the opponents northern goal then he would be 79m from the ball. We should have a couple of people between him and the ball, you dont need 17 Port players around the stoppage as opposition defenders set up themselves on the defensive side of the stoppage. Surely you can have 2 of our players equally spread in that 79m gap, the other 15 around the stoppage and then Harvey might have to lead from that centre square line towards the wing. Its not as if he has to run 59m back and forth every single minute of 120 minute game or that 100m to the opposition goal line.
If you look at Schulz speeding off to a stoppage in our backline, as I have been watching closely since the Hawks game, its him who is making the play and his defender following him in, not the defender peeling off him to get up the ground and make some great play.
Edit: that heat map above proves my point that Schulz is going to HBF rather than his man taking him there.
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These are possession maps, not GPS maps, but they still tell a pretty good story:
If thats not the biggest indication of what is going wrong, well one of the major things going wrong, right now i dont know what is!! couldnt prove a point any better than that!
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And in 20... Oh never mind, Butcher has never played that many games in a season ever.
"But the coaches gave him every opportunity, he's a spud, get over it" they tell me on the Butcher thread...
This is what backing someone in is all about.
RussellEbertHandball
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It's actually really ideal to give him a crack now. Even if it's only for one week, then he gets to go back, work on the parts of his game that were deficient at AFL level, and get fitter ready for his next crack at the elite level.
I really would like to hear from Hinkley why it's ideal for guys like Wines/Impey/Colquhoun and to a lesser extent Amon get AFL experience early, while the KPPs are required to hone their craft for longer in the SANFL. I get that Shaw is probably our most likely in terms of age, and he has had a few tough injury runs which has probably held him back, but even Butcher has put together the equivalent string of good games that Mitchell/S. Gray/Ah Chee have had and can't get a look in.
- Apr 27, 2008
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These are possession maps, not GPS maps, but they still tell a pretty good story:
Even the poster player and barometer for hard running up the ground, St Nick, would spend more time in the 50 than that.
Gee whiz Ken, we have problems!
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