Roar. Have AFL vic indicated how many points clubs in the PDFL would have if we where to take on the points system?
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Picola & District NW 2015
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- #427
As a example a player going from a PDFNL club to a MFL/GVFL/OMFL club, is worth one less point than the same player going from the OMFL/MFL/GVFL to the PDFNL.
This is as it sits with the PDFNL being deemed a community league and the others being deemed premier leagues.
Ok yeah i get that bit. Thats one part I do understand. But how does total points work? Is it per points per week i,e selected sides? Or points per season i.e players points are tallied as they are registered ?
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- #429
Per week, no indication was given to amount of points, sorry I appear to have mis understood previous question .
How many per week?
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- #431
No suggestion was given .
So based on what afl vic are saying if we join the points system then our marquee players are worth 4 points to a higher league. If we refuse then all pdfl players will be only worth 1 point. Wont that make us easy picking for mfl, gvfl etc?
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- #433
That is what they are saying but let's just see whether that is what is in the final release , there quite a lot of interest in the legality of this idea .
Effect will be no different to current system as PDFNL clubs won't have to worry about points .
MFL/ GVFL etc clubs like now will target PDFNL players who they think are capable of playing senior footy , player makes choice based on loyalty , $$'s etc .
Some old story club tries to poach PDFNL club , PDFNL club returns fire .
Go into the point system and that ability to return the fire is taken away due to indifference in points .
AFL NSW doesn't have point system .
The criteria for a 1 point is 40 junior games .
Be prepared for 15-16 year olds to be getting paid to join clubs to get games up .
it has been suggested that junior league clubs will be offered under the table $$$'s to align themselves with specific senior clubs for the purpose 'home qualifying players'.
Any league who does stay out will however be attractive to blokes who have more than one point and are concerned about missing senior selection .
The alleged aims being:
Reduce player payments and equalise competitions I think is good . The idea of how to achieve it would appear very major league dominated .
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eric swatson
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Phil Hazelman.
That is what they are saying but let's just see whether that is what is in the final release , there quite a lot of interest in the legality of this idea .
Effect will be no different to current system as PDFNL clubs won't have to worry about points .
MFL/ GVFL etc clubs like now will target PDFNL players who they think are capable of playing senior footy , player makes choice based on loyalty , $$'s etc .
Some old story club tries to poach PDFNL club , PDFNL club returns fire .
Go into the point system and that ability to return the fire is taken away due to indifference in points .
AFL NSW doesn't have point system .
The criteria for a 1 point is 40 junior games .
Be prepared for 15-16 year olds to be getting paid to join clubs to get games up .
it has been suggested that junior league clubs will be offered under the table $$$'s to align themselves with specific senior clubs for the purpose 'home qualifying players'.
Any league who does stay out will however be attractive to blokes who have more than one point and are concerned about missing senior selection .
The alleged aims being:
Reduce player payments and equalise competitions I think is good . The idea of how to achieve it would appear very major league dominated .
1.Cant see how legality has anything to do with it if aflvic want to award pdfl players one point in a system invented by themselves I doubt there is anything 'legal' to discuss.
2. "Go into the point system and that ability to return the fire is taken away due to indifference in points " .
Wont our 'indifference of points' be far greater if all our players are only worth 1 point.?
Dont Aflvic have the ability to adjust the points cap to give lower placed leagues greater weekly points to counteract this difference?
3. "Be prepared for 15-16 year olds to be getting paid to join clubs to get games up .
it has been suggested that junior league clubs will be offered under the table $$$'s to align themselves with specific senior clubs for the purpose 'home qualifying players"
As every other league has adopted the system dont you think this could/will happen regardless if pdfl join or not?
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wouldIlietoyou
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Point 2. Isn't it totally disrupting the fairness for other leagues if say a GVFL club can recruit a 4 point player from PDFNL for 1 point?That's what can happen isn't it? Or will they invent more bonuses for that as well? Sounding like very muddy waters....
Point 3. is a system that encourages (perhaps unintended) the poaching and luring with dollars of players as young as 15 even remotely in the best interests of country football? For that one reason alone it's worth protesting by staying out of it in my opinion. This part needs serious consideration by AFLVic. iMO it's the biggest downfall of the whole system.
I don't see an issue with little old pDFNL staying out of the system at least until we see how the theory plays out and these talked of credits and bonus points get sorted more clearly. I see no issue in us being the one league to stand firm for better outcomes?
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- #437
1. You can't discriminate against a member and therefore this matter is most likely illegal . For what it is worth this points system has been tested legally before and failed significantly .
You might also like to consider that despite not being part of the system AFL NSW players will carry standard pointing . There is no intended compensation for clubs who lose players to AFL NSW clubs .
2. If not in the system what points a player is given has no relevance as there is no point cap . I'll give you a example and is completely hypothetical , as I am aware where your points were this year:
However example is :
The points are screwed down enough that your GF side this year had no points to spare. This off season Coburn , Pinnuck , Ryan , Duckworth , McMillan who are 1 point players are recruited by MFL , GVFL or OM clubs .
How do you replace them with players of similar quality , keep in mind any player coming from the GVFL or MFL is going to put you well over your points ?
Outside the system you look at players who may be disgruntled at other clubs including blokes who no longer wish to play GVFL or MFL .
You can't, your screwed , the side you have been building towards for 5-6 years has just been depleted.
It may not be relative to you YET, but there are clubs within the comp who rely heavily on the spill from major cities . Cities that run 4 junior sides and pull juniors from PDFNL towns . Under the points system they could potential not be able to play these players because these players will carry to many points and therefore can't field a side . Yet there are kids continually not continuing in the game beyond juniors because there home club has only one senior side .
Another point is , I stated McMillan as 1 point . He didn't play with the club as a junior post 2009 , so there is no online record , the emphasis is solely on Strathy to provide concrete evidence that he played 40 junior games . If you can't it is at the discretion of AFL VIC what points he is worth .
3. Yes , which is flaw in the system.
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I agree there are parts of the system i:e the level difference PDFL and MFL for example that are wrong or unfair towards the PDFNL. The "issue with little old PDFNL staying out of the system" is that if ROAR is wrong about the AFL's legal right to award all our players one point then we will become the main hunting ground for surrounding leagues.
An example, COBRAM, From where they are they need an injection of a number of players to be competitive again, lets say 10 players so a min of 30 points. If we join the system our players are worth 3/4 points to them, as are players from all other leagues making PDFNL players no more attactive than a GVFL player for example. If ROAR is wrong and all PDFNL players are awarded 1 point where do you think they will concentrate their recruiting efforts?
1. You can't discriminate against a member and therefore this matter is most likely illegal . For what it is worth this points system has been tested legally before and failed significantly . I really hope you are right, there is a lot riding on "most likely"
You might also like to consider that despite not being part of the system AFL NSW players will carry standard pointing . There is no intended compensation for clubs who lose players to AFL NSW clubs . There is never any compensation when you loose a player to another league.
2. If not in the system what points a player is given has no relevance as there is no point cap . I'll give you a example and is completely hypothetical , as I am aware where your points were this year: What did you tally our GF side for interest sake? I got 28/29?
However example is :
The points are screwed down enough that your GF side this year had no points to spare. This off season Coburn , Pinnuck , Ryan , Duckworth , McMillan who are 1 point players are recruited by MFL , GVFL or OM clubs .
How do you replace them with players of similar quality , keep in mind any player coming from the GVFL or MFL is going to put you well over your points ? 1.All indications are that we will have points in the mid 40's, 2. you continue to develop juniors.
Outside the system you look at players who may be disgruntled at other clubs including blokes who no longer wish to play GVFL or MFL .
You can't, your screwed , the side you have been building towards for 5-6 years has just been depleted.
It may not be relative to you YET, but there are clubs within the comp who rely heavily on the spill from major cities . Cities that run 4 junior sides and pull juniors from PDFNL towns . Under the points system they could potential not be able to play these players because these players will carry to many points and therefore can't field a side . Yet there are kids continually not continuing in the game beyond juniors because there home club has only one senior side .
Another point is , I stated McMillan as 1 point . He didn't play with the club as a junior post 2009 , so there is no online record , the emphasis is solely on Strathy to provide concrete evidence that he played 40 junior games . If you can't it is at the discretion of AFL VIC what points he is worth . Interesting! whats happened to the data from the computer system we used pre-sportingpulse?
3. Yes , which is flaw in the system,
I agree there are many flaws in the system so much so I dont believe it will do a lot to equalize clubs or control player payments in the short term. Having said that, I believe with a state-wide approach involving all leagues and evolving the system over time it will help in the long term. If your not part of the solution you are part of the problem?
What other options are there? What other systems could work? Or do we just continue as is with spiralling player payments and terribly un-even competitions?
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- #440
Not sure why you are posting in bold it sought of wreaks of someone trying to gain attention . There is little riding on players being one point , so I am not sure why you are drawing that bow ?
Very little at all in fact , which is what I have already explained . There is no evidence to suggest anything will Change .
The biggest point you seem to be over looking is that it is still the player who decides where he plays not clubs .
Do you really think players within your club who are capable of playing senior football else where are not targeted ? If you do you , I am sorry but you are deluded . Good players will always be targeted and evidence out of leagues that already have a similar system confirm that it does not alter player transferring one bit. There was also only 8% of clubs surveyed that felt points had any affect what so ever on spending . Whilst there is no evidence what so ever that points or money paid has any direct influence on the strength of a senior side . None / zero , locally or state wide or in other state who have a points system.
I have received no indication given what points would be awarded so I am not sure where you are getting mid 40's , but I seriously doubt you can expect anyone to believe that is going to continue .
You do realise that a major reason for bringing the system in is because clubs in some leagues are struggling Financial to maintain the standard they are trying to compete at . This in turn means that little has been spent on JD or facilities .
That is not the case in the PDFNL with many clubs spending big money on facilities and no indication any club is financially struggling .
The PDFNL has first obligation is to its own clubs , do you think when other leagues are pushing the old ' you must play major league to get anywhere in footy ' they give a shit about the PDFNL ?
No absolutely ZERO evidence Points and salary cap will address issues you have raised .
In fact evidence suggests that it will strongly favour those whom have had strong junior numbers in the past , which is those whom are currently experience senior success in both leagues .
Do you want to see the likes of yarroweyah , Mathoura , Blighty , Toc , picola, , Berrigan , dookie , rennie all gone in 5-6 years ?
What is the solution ? I believe there has been something put to afl
GM who are yet to reply , don't hold your breath but speak to your president if you need more info .
Very little at all in fact , which is what I have already explained . There is no evidence to suggest anything will Change .
The biggest point you seem to be over looking is that it is still the player who decides where he plays not clubs .
Do you really think players within your club who are capable of playing senior football else where are not targeted ? If you do you , I am sorry but you are deluded . Good players will always be targeted and evidence out of leagues that already have a similar system confirm that it does not alter player transferring one bit. There was also only 8% of clubs surveyed that felt points had any affect what so ever on spending . Whilst there is no evidence what so ever that points or money paid has any direct influence on the strength of a senior side . None / zero , locally or state wide or in other state who have a points system.
I have received no indication given what points would be awarded so I am not sure where you are getting mid 40's , but I seriously doubt you can expect anyone to believe that is going to continue .
You do realise that a major reason for bringing the system in is because clubs in some leagues are struggling Financial to maintain the standard they are trying to compete at . This in turn means that little has been spent on JD or facilities .
That is not the case in the PDFNL with many clubs spending big money on facilities and no indication any club is financially struggling .
The PDFNL has first obligation is to its own clubs , do you think when other leagues are pushing the old ' you must play major league to get anywhere in footy ' they give a shit about the PDFNL ?
No absolutely ZERO evidence Points and salary cap will address issues you have raised .
In fact evidence suggests that it will strongly favour those whom have had strong junior numbers in the past , which is those whom are currently experience senior success in both leagues .
Do you want to see the likes of yarroweyah , Mathoura , Blighty , Toc , picola, , Berrigan , dookie , rennie all gone in 5-6 years ?
What is the solution ? I believe there has been something put to afl
GM who are yet to reply , don't hold your breath but speak to your president if you need more info .
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- #441
No you are wrong , players from
Community clubs are worth one
Less point than premier leagues .
Secondly why do you think things will change from now in regards to
recruiting ? Cobram will be speaking to every player they have a interest in , decision remains the player.
The AFL want people like you who are reactive to their threats , they have been doing it for years .
Take the blinkers off , consider all aspects and then form a opinion . Rather than listening and taking for granted the bs they are feeding you .
No league in the state is surrounded by 3 leagues that are deemed premier leagues and the AFL NSW who have no points system , yet their players are worth points into AFL Vic clubs .
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- #442
And just so you are aware theintimidator I believe the decision about the point system was made on the understating that if not in it players would be one(1) point .
wouldIlietoyou
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intimidator are you looking for a job in AFLvic or something? Playing pretty good politics with the old if you are not part of the solution you are part of the problem line.
You know there are issues and I see major ones for minor leagues. Playing nice and agreeing to everything never gets you what you need or want.
Aflvic need to do some more work. Should have done so before so widely promoting a system they hadn't even worked out before now putting heat on our league too comply.
If talking real world I compare it to the basin plan. Rushed on flawed stats and knee jerk reaction to people screaming the sky is falling, wouldn't listen to concerns about consequences and now we have a mess.
No plan is better than a bad plan.
You know there are issues and I see major ones for minor leagues. Playing nice and agreeing to everything never gets you what you need or want.
Aflvic need to do some more work. Should have done so before so widely promoting a system they hadn't even worked out before now putting heat on our league too comply.
If talking real world I compare it to the basin plan. Rushed on flawed stats and knee jerk reaction to people screaming the sky is falling, wouldn't listen to concerns about consequences and now we have a mess.
No plan is better than a bad plan.
Far from it my one and only motivation is the PDFNL and that stems from a. playing in the league since I was 9 b. coaching u14s, under 17s and assisting in senior grades. c. coaching PDFNL junior inter league sides d.being a hard working club president. So be very careful before you question my motives.
You and roar seem to take every opinion different to yours as a personal insult or in some way to have some underhanded alterer motive.
AFL need to do some work to the system, work that could have been addressed if all information was passed onto clubs earlier in the year, giving clubs time to disscuss it properly and give AFL feedback. Unfortunately that information wasn't made available.
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- #445
@theintimimdator
Name information that wasn't forwarded to clubs , you made the accusation now back .
You have absolutely no idea the work that has been undertaken to
get information for clubs in this regard , so don't talk crap .
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HAhah was writing in bold to make it clear which were my responses and which were your points, but nice try champ.
HAhah was writing in bold to make it clear which were my responses and which were your points, but nice try champ.
I understand that MFL,GVFL, O&M already talk to our players, that goes without saying. But if you seriously think that, for example, Shepp Bears, wouldnt look more towards PDFNL players worth 1 point than KDFL players worth 3/4 and throw more money at the PDFNL players than you are deluded.
I was was told directly we would receive points in the mid 40's.
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Settle down. I never said that the board had anything to do with it. Read my post again. Why would you jump to that conclusion? We never received an information package as described on the AFL website video from earlier in the year. I didnt say it had anything to do with PDFNL. But based on the defensive nature of your post now I am wondering??
No you are wrong, check the information again. If we join the system our marquee players are worth the same 4 points to MFL clubs as Premier Leagues marquee players. there is only a difference when we recruit the other way.
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- #449
They have 45 friggen points plus concessions for Christ sake do you really think points are going to be a issue for them , or do you ever think they are going to be screwed down ?
Whoever told you mid 40's needs to speak Martin Gleeson , because he couldn't answer that exact question not so long ago .
You might want to also speak to a board member close to you because he was a meeting where it was stated the points system would be nation wide .
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- #450
I don't know which package you are referring to but if you are referring to the one outlining the points and alike your club email addressdid receive it !
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