Player Review vs Carlton

[kevind]

How many Pies fans thought that when Channel 7 cameras zoomed in on the Carlton coaches box, we were looking at the cover of Mad Magazine?

Sorry Brett Ratten, but they needn't have done the artwork. They could have just used your photo.

 

[Dundalis]

I've always been derisive of Ben Reid as a player, after his first couple games for Collingwood. I've basically said I doubt he'd make it because I couldn't see what he provided as an AFL player, other than being an athlete.

Well today was the first time I've thought he could be a an AFL player and possibly a good one. Despite having 5 kicked on him, he simply showed in bits the talent he has. He is a good field kick, which I hadn't really seen from him before, and he does have good closing speed. Definately see a bit of a young Dustin Fletcher there, though he isn't anywhere near as thumping a long kick, he seems pretty accurate. Presti is still definately needed though.

 

[Invigoration]

Well lets play someone in a foreign position just to get experience into him and lose another prelim final, his disposal is ok but just watch the tape to see just how far he is off the mark. I hope for his and the clubs sake I'm eating my words one day.

We aren't playing him in a foreign position just for the sake of it or for his development, he is playing there out of necessity, if he doesn't come on back there we are in a bit of shit. Don't you think he deserves a bit of time to see whether he can manage it or not?

His disposal by foot is exceptional, once he settles into a rhythm and learns to manage his defensive side I think we'll begin filtering a lot of ball through him in the back half. Just at the moment I think he solely needs to focus on shutting down his man, but in the future I could definitely see him filling a role similar to Bock in that he sets up a lot of our drive off half back.

I've watched bits and pieces of the game again and my opinion hasn't really changed. Setenta got one from that 50m penalty, got one from a free kick from Heath Shaw, one he got on the run after Harry got a terrible bounce and I'm pretty sure he kicked one on Maxy. The only legitimate time he really did Reid was that diving slips catch where he got hit lace out but Reid was right on his hammer.
But on the same hand I can remember two scoring chains that started directly with Reid's drive out of the backline.

A lot of cards fell O'hAilpin's way today, let's not jump the gun on a bloke who has shown a lot of signs and only just turned 21. The only KPD's around his age that are doing are better are probably Hooker and Pears, but even those boys had and continue to have significant teething problems. Hooker can be horrific on the last line of defence at times, but he continues to improve with time spent at the top level.
Hurley is another that would be highly rated by most, but does anyone else remember one of his first forays into AFL football? A 21 year old Jack Anthony, who had only just started playing FF slotted seven goals on the prick that night in the NAB cup...
Essendon threw both those boys in the deep end and they will be the better for it, regardless of the early and even ongoing hiccups.

It needs to be looked at realistically, if you are expecting Reid to dominate seasoned veterans like Brown and Voldt, you're going to be disappointed. Even the expectation that just because 'Setenta is shit' (which isn't completely true IMO), so Reid should automatically be able to cut him up isn't fair. Setenta is older, more experienced, probably stronger and a lot more confident playing in front of 80k on the G.

Reid had a bit of an acid test last week against some KP boys around his age, and held up quite well. I reckon if he'd seen any of Lachie Henderson today as well he would have comfortably coped.

It just needs to be kept in perspective somewhat, his performance shouldn't be held against Nate's very encouraging form he showed when he first came on to the scene or against KPP's that are far his senior, it's just unrealistic.

Chris Dawes is doing his best at the moment to prove that you write these young blokes off at your own peril, I'm quite confident Ben Reid will end up doing the same thing.

 

[kevind]

The only KPD's around his age that are doing are better are probably Hooker and Pears, but even those boys had and continue to have significant teething problems. Hooker can be horrific on the last line of defence at times, but he continues to improve with time spent at the top level.
Hurley is another that would be highly rated by most, but does anyone else remember one of his first forays into AFL football? A 21 year old Jack Anthony, who had only just started playing FF slotted seven goals on the prick that night in the NAB cup...
Essendon threw both those boys in the deep end and they will be the better for it, regardless of the early and even ongoing hiccups.

It needs to be looked at realistically, if you are expecting Reid to dominate seasoned veterans like Brown and Voldt, you're going to be disappointed. Even the expectation that just because 'Setenta is shit' (which isn't completely true IMO), so Reid should automatically be able to cut him up isn't fair. Setenta is older, more experienced, probably stronger and a lot more confident playing in front of 80k on the G.

Reid had a bit of an acid test last week against some KP boys around his age, and held up quite well. I reckon if he'd seen any of Lachie Henderson today as well he would have comfortably coped.

It just needs to be kept in perspective somewhat, his performance shouldn't be held against Nate's very encouraging form he showed when he first came on to the scene or against KPP's that are far his senior, it's just unrealistic.

Chris Dawes is doing his best at the moment to prove that you write these young blokes off at your own peril, I'm quite confident Ben Reid will end up doing the same thing.

I think Reid will eventually make it as well, but he needs to get rid of this constant going to ground. It is a dreadful habit.

With regards to comments about the Essendon boys, I think you are wrong. All 3 have shown a lot better form than Reid has so far by so far it is not funny. eg Hurley won a game of his own in boot in his very first year. Pears has given Fevola an absolute bath on at least one occassion. But arguably Essendon (if you include Gumbleton, Pears and Hurley as the 3) have the best 3 young KP players in the AFL. So that is no shame for the likes of Reid.

My greatest worry with Reid is that I don't think he is showing enough improvement in his game. The still 'going to ground' too often being an example of that.

 

[mwalker]

I just can't see it working with the way the footy rebounds from defence these days, and also space is filled so well these days by zones.

If Anthony comes in, you lose one of our small rotations which is a strength of ours, unless Jolly goes the ruck alone.

I much more prefer the 2 tall setup, Medhurst who can play tall and small, and the mixture of nippy little forward and midfielders running through and kicking goals.

We are kicking big scores so far this season (Most would take around 21 scoring shots each game....accuracy is different) with the setup of two talls, Medhurst and 3 smalls. That structure is working just fine. Our potency is coming from the midfielders goaling and that is due to our forward structure maintaining pressure.

Bucks knows what he is doing is working well if we kick accurately.

 

[mwalker]

Amazingly channel seven mostly talked about how good individual carlton players were in spite of getting a hiding.

That said it was interesting to see that we got smashed in the clearances in the third quarter, Santana was kicking goals, not because of Reid's poor performance but because he was getting great delivery from the likes of Judd. Then late in the third we were able to clear it out, usually with a long passout to Thomas on the wing often as the result of swan, ball, wellers but I was also pretty inpressed with Johnsons ability to push through the pack. I guess it's a different perspective but I didn't think Pendles was as dominating as people are claiming, sure he was bloody good but he wasn't rolling in the dirt fighting for the ball.

What changed to allow them to dominate, was it Judd coming back on? How did we manage to get it back?

I beg to differ, it was either a 10-15 minute burst in the 3rd or 4th when the intensity went up and he literally, on his knees ripped the ball out of the scums hands a couple of times in tight and swung the game our way.

I noticed both last week and this week how many times when the opposition ball carrier is tackled and brought down, Sidey, Beams, Wellingham infact most of the midfield are trying to rip the ball away from the guy whilst he is being tackled. Reminds me alot of the NFL defenders when they try and strip the ball after the catch is completed. We got atleast 2 goals doing that.

 

[Invigoration]

I think Reid will eventually make it as well, but he needs to get rid of this constant going to ground. It is a dreadful habit.

With regards to comments about the Essendon boys, I think you are wrong. All 3 have shown a lot better form than Reid has so far by so far it is not funny. eg Hurley won a game of his own in boot in his very first year. Pears has given Fevola an absolute bath on at least one occassion. But arguably Essendon (if you include Gumbleton, Pears and Hurley as the 3) have the best 3 young KP players in the AFL. So that is no shame for the likes of Reid.

My greatest worry with Reid is that I don't think he is showing enough improvement in his game. The still 'going to ground' too often being an example of that.

Yeah but you need to compare him to those Essendon boys in their first 5 or so games (I'm not really counting the period where Reid played as a forward, it's virtually irrelevant).
The first time I saw Pears play I thought he looked terrible as well, if I'm not mistaken he is a basketball convert (?) and I thought he looked like he'd never played footy in his life.

Of course, fast track to now and those boys have all improved significantly and have things they can all rest their hats on (e.g. beating Fev), but remember Reid has only had 3 games down there and hasn't really had the opportunity to show anything yet.

Like I said, Hurley got annihilated by JA in his first game, 10 games down the track though he slammed home that match winner on his left, there's nothing to show Reid won't show something like that within his next 10 games.

Reid got a pass mark for his first 2 games anyway, with today a bit of a black mark. I don't think you could really make a conclusive judgment regarding his improvement in such a small time frame.

And yeah, I've been over the keeping the feet thing, I think it's beginning to get a bit over played now. I can't remember once when he got genuinely outbodied and pushed off the ball/lost his feet in the body v body contest, like I said, I think he over commits a little to the spoil and ends up sprawled on the ground, but actually keeping upright in a contest, well I'll wait till I make my judgment. It certainly hasn't stood out to me as much as it seems to have for you, everyone sees the game differently though.

Just out of curiosity, were you at the game or did you watch it? I'm gonna have to watch the game on tape, maybe that'll give me a better look at it.

 

[DoubleO7]

I don't recall Fraser spotting a single Collingwood player with a tap in the first half. His second half was average, IMO.

 

[half_back_flank]

Yeah but you need to compare him to those Essendon boys in their first 5 or so games (I'm not really counting the period where Reid played as a forward, it's virtually irrelevant).
The first time I saw Pears play I thought he looked terrible as well, if I'm not mistaken he is a basketball convert (?) and I thought he looked like he'd never played footy in his life.

Of course, fast track to now and those boys have all improved significantly and have things they can all rest their hats on (e.g. beating Fev), but remember Reid has only had 3 games down there and hasn't really had the opportunity to show anything yet.

Like I said, Hurley got annihilated by JA in his first game, 10 games down the track though he slammed home that match winner on his left, there's nothing to show Reid won't show something like that within his next 10 games.

Reid got a pass mark for his first 2 games anyway, with today a bit of a black mark. I don't think you could really make a conclusive judgment regarding his improvement in such a small time frame.

And yeah, I've been over the keeping the feet thing, I think it's beginning to get a bit over played now. I can't remember once when he got genuinely outbodied and pushed off the ball/lost his feet in the body v body contest, like I said, I think he over commits a little to the spoil and ends up sprawled on the ground, but actually keeping upright in a contest, well I'll wait till I make my judgment. It certainly hasn't stood out to me as much as it seems to have for you, everyone sees the game differently though.

Just out of curiosity, were you at the game or did you watch it? I'm gonna have to watch the game on tape, maybe that'll give me a better look at it.

I watched the game half cut, but this was what really stood out to me. He seemed to go to ground before his opponent, and overcommitted a couple of times too. Very early days though as you say, no real need for concern until it becomes an ongoing issue. Everything else about his game was good, especially his field kicking which was top notch imo.

 

[SIDE BY SIDE]

The Kid has only played about 14 games, give him a break, he looked great last week I don't think the match up on Setanta was a good one. And I don't think he was all that bad he made some mistakes but I think that Setanta's 5 goals were a bit flattering to him, he had a bit of luck. I don't think that Reid was on the ground for two of his goals either, although I may be wrong about that.

He does go to ground far too easy but after watching the reply at 12 last night Setanta did not kick 5 on Reid.I'm with Spoony a lot of his goals were mistakes by us not so much him beating Reid or Brown one out.

The only reason he should get dropped is if presti is right and we want to keep Brown in.

He did some good things yesterday backed himself when it was kicked into our backline and ran off with the ball.
We need a player like him who just doesn't stop players getting a kick we need attack from the back and I think Reid can give us that. We must keep playing him to get him up to the speed of AFL. The coaches will get the going to ground out of his game pretty quick.

 

[robertg22]

Don't want to derail the thread but would be great if we could get a few more posters to give their 5,4,3,2,1 for the game - http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=689468&page=2

Thanks!