Player Reviews NAB Cup Rd 1

[The Royal Sampler]

I stopped posting on this one because I think we're not far off agreeing with each other anyway. I think the initial comments you made might have been in defence of Harry O, and if you look at my comment in the autopsy thread I wasn't concerned at all about Harry's game. So that aspect of it being Harry vs. Russell didn't really factor into my thinking.

I guess where I'm coming from is that last year we had the likes of Yagmoor, T Young, Buckley, Seedsman etc. getting games off half-back and while our injury situation should be better this season, I'd be surprised if we overlooked Russell for a similar role if needed simply because he was essentially delisted from Carlton. His role with us will be somewhat different, our gameplan will be different, the players around him are different and he'll be destined to fail if we pigeon-hole him as the player he was at Carlton.

 

[Gone Critical]

I stopped posting on this one because I think we're not far off agreeing with each other anyway. I think the initial comments you made might have been in defence of Harry O, and if you look at my comment in the autopsy thread I wasn't concerned at all about Harry's game. So that aspect of it being Harry vs. Russell didn't really factor into my thinking.

I guess where I'm coming from is that last year we had the likes of Yagmoor, T Young, Buckley, Seedsman etc. getting games off half-back and while our injury situation should be better this season, I'd be surprised if we overlooked Russell for a similar role if needed simply because he was essentially delisted from Carlton. His role with us will be somewhat different, our gameplan will be different, the players around him are different and he'll be destined to fail if we pigeon-hole him as the player he was at Carlton.

I am all for Russell fitting in and doing well. I think we all see the depth acquired and hopefully absence of 2012 like injury list leaves us really well placed and contests forthe 22 will be on

 

[lozza63]

I think that Russell demonstrated clearly he is better than depth - he seems to really want to be a part of "things", and a regular role for him should be found imo.

Young looked really focused but his disposal was imo less than i hoped for. I expect he will be hitting up our forwards from the wing more often than not - yet i have durability issues with him.

 

[KJpie]

Nah sorry, only heard news on Grundy and Macaffer. I, like you, am anxious about JT too.

Yes running out of time to prove himself!

 

[KJpie]

Watched the NAB CUP games last night. Can't understand why people try to read that much into these games when the better players are only going at half pace.

That's the problem, if you have serial offenders continuing to butcher/ turn over the ball in a glorified practice match it raises concerns during the real stuff let alone a final.

 

[Gone Critical]

Having Russell, Caff, Marty Clarke with a year under the belt, as well as improving Sinclair, Seedsman, Elliot, Williams etc without thinking about the new recruits all pushing for places makes things much better than Buckley Young et al of 2012.

Throw in Keefe Ball Young Lynch Krak who will be best 22 this year (maybe not Keefe yet). Throw in the potential of Mooney and Witts being greater in 2013 and the look of Frost Gault Dwyer Martin and the other rookies who may deliver up a player or 2 in 2013 and it is going to be hard to crack a game in 2013.

Think of the older players like Johnno and Dids if they are injury free having bigger years. There are a lot of reasons to smile even outside best 22

 

[Gone Critical]

Yeah but if your serial offenders also have a history of excellent footy in finals it should negate some of your concerns

 

[KJpie]

Yeah but if your serial offenders also have a history of excellent footy in finals it should negate some of your concerns

Agreed, but not if the game passes them by, they fail to continue to improve each year or they simply lose confidence. As all have noted there is good depth in the side this year and touch wood all players enjoy a relatively injury free year ensuring rookie elevation becomes some what irrelevant as well as benefiting the VFL side in the interim.

 

[Gone Critical]

Agreed, but not if the game passes them by, they fail to continue to improve each year or they simply lose confidence. As all have noted there is good depth in the side this year and touch wood all players enjoy a relatively injury free year ensuring rookie elevation becomes some what irrelevant as well as benefiting the VFL side in the interim.

Yep none of the encumbents are gauranteed a place. Think we will see some of the young or new faces take some big steps. Which ones?

I had big hopes for Marty Clarke last year but they have faded but I do wonder if he could kick on.

Caolan Mooney has been more under the radar this year which is good but hope he can break out a bit this year.

 

[KJpie]

Yep none of the encumbents are gauranteed a place. Think we will see some of the young or new faces take some big steps. Which ones?

I had big hopes for Marty Clarke last year but they have faded but I do wonder if he could kick on.

Caolan Mooney has been more under the radar this year which is good but hope he can break out a bit this year.

Are you Irish GC?

I think Marty will be a better player as a result of the 2012 hit out and subsequent disappointments. He looks bigger and fitter to me.

 

[Gone Critical]

I own an Irish passprt thanks to an Irish grandfather, great for travel in Europe. Nah but I am a Melbournian born and bred. Currently living in Abbotsford equidistant between and G and Vic park which gives symmetry to my life.

 

[KJpie]

[quote="Gone Critical, post: 27208613, member: 37204" Nah but I am a Melbournian born and bred. Currently living in Abbotsford equidistant between and G and Vic park which gives symmetry to my life.[/quote]
If one could move the MCG and Vic park to the coast that would be symmetry for me. Sun, surf, fishing, bikinis and the worlds best sporting club at my door step!

 

[KJpie]

I had big hopes for Marty Clarke last year but they have faded

Sounds like you've given up on Marty a little?

 

[Gone Critical]

If one could move the MCG and Vic park to the coast that would be symmetry for me. Sun, surf, fishing, bikinis and the worlds best sporting club at my door step!

Plus the G and Vic Park. You dream big but I understand the language

 

[Gone Critical]

Sounds like you've given up on Marty a little?

Less hopes than I had. I had him pegged as easy best 22 when he came back . I thought that's what he would develop into. He is depth for now until he shows something more.

 

[Quicky]

Less hopes than I had. I had him pegged as easy best 22 when he came back . I thought that's what he would develop into. He is depth for now until he shows something more.

It's a shame he doesn't have a bit more toe. If he was a bit quicker he'd be a killer winger with his combo of endurance and footskills. He is pretty good depth on the outside though. It's just that he is behind Thomas, Young and Sidebottom. He's probably only a couple of injuries to those guys away from the 22. I still think with his kicking skills he has a chance in this side but he needs to start putting together that form which saw him tear Geelong apart in that prelim.

 

[lenny&carl]

It stands to reason that Clarke will improve on his first year back. But there's him and 15 other guys fighting for the last 5 spots in the 22. I still have Clarke pretty near the head of the pack though. Should play a bunch of games this year, and go pretty good.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't Clarke's best year his first year? If so, why is he likely to be significantly better this year than last year? He seems to lack the intensity of his early games, and as Quicky said, he is a tad slow. To me, he represents depth only, unless he genuinely has something in reserve which did not surface last year. He looks awkward overhead and is fairly one-sided. He showed early promise of big things but has simply not kicked-on.

 

[KJpie]

It's a shame he doesn't have a bit more toe. If he was a bit quicker he'd be a killer winger with his combo of endurance and footskills. It's just that he is behind Thomas, Young and Sidebottom. He's probably only a couple of injuries to those guys away from the 22. I still think with his kicking skills he has a chance in this side

I may be wrong Quicky but I don't see him as a full time winger or a positional threat to the 3 mentioned. I see him as a possible HB/ pocket replacement to BJ or a HF replacement to Didak. As you have stated his kicking skills will be welcomed in both areas of the ground if this is the case. Buck's IMO deliberately threw down the challenge to Clarke to improve the defensive aspect of his game and has consistently played him in defence in 2012 to allow him to prove he is willing and capable.

After Clarke returned last year I felt he was willing but unable to fulfill the role due to his body size and lack of muscle mass. I was gladdened to see he stayed in Aus this year and embarked on a summer of weights training to assist in alleviating this weakness. During the recent NAB cup game I saw him go low and absorb body impact so lacking in his past, it was the first time I have seen him seem comfortable with the contact as well as almost welcoming it. He has definitely increased muscle mass and will improve his speed over the ground with further match fitness.

Marty may not have straight line Jetta pace, however he has reasonable pace, great awareness and vision as well as exceptional agility to get around opposition players.

 

[KJpie]

Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't Clarke's best year his first year? If so, why is he likely to be significantly better this year than last year? He seems to lack the intensity of his early games, and as Quicky said, he is a tad slow. To me, he represents depth only, unless he genuinely has something in reserve which did not surface last year. He looks awkward overhead and is fairly one-sided. He showed early promise of big things but has simply not kicked-on.

Quite simply out of his depth last year MM, physically or possibly mentally not up to AFL standard.

Buck's stated recently that it would be naive (not you) of anyone to think that the game plan of 18 months ago was relevant to the plans in place today.

With Clarke returning home to study and work as well as play as an amateur for 2-3 years; his AFL return was never going to happen overnight.

Marking is never going to be a priority based on his position but it will improve as his confidence does. If as you state he is only a depth player then I think we are in for a pretty good season.

 

[Quicky]

I may be wrong Quicky but I don't see him as a full time winger or a positional threat to the 3 mentioned. I see him as a possible HB/ pocket replacement to BJ or a HF replacement to Didak. As you have stated his kicking skills will be welcomed in both areas of the ground if this is the case. Buck's IMO deliberately threw down the challenge to Clarke to improve the defensive aspect of his game and has consistently played him in defence in 2012 to allow him to prove he is willing and capable.

After Clarke returned last year I felt he was willing but unable to fulfill the role due to his body size and lack of muscle mass. I was gladdened to see he stayed in Aus this year and embarked on a summer of weights training to assist in alleviating this weakness. During the recent NAB cup game I saw him go low and absorb body impact so lacking in his past, it was the first time I have seen him seem comfortable with the contact as well as almost welcoming it. He has definitely increased muscle mass and will improve his speed over the ground with further match fitness.

Marty may not have straight line Jetta pace, however he has reasonable pace, great awareness and vision as well as exceptional agility to get around opposition players.

Clarke is no defender. If you are playing in defense you still need to be a competent defender and Clarke is not that player.

We have too many players ahead of him in the forward half, and too many one paced players there. He isn't the greatest overhead either. It's an option but i'm sceptical.

Gotta disagree with you, I think wing is his best go.

 

[KJpie]

Clarke is no defender. If you are playing in defense you still need to be a competent defender and Clarke is not that player.

Then Buckley is also wrong as that is where he chooses to play Clarke.
In his early days Johnson was an average defender and an awful kick to boot, yet he turned it around over time. As mentioned in the prior post I have not singled Clark out as a defender, he may end up best suited to HF?? What I do know is that the time he spends as a defender will serve him well in the future if moved forward.

 

[KJpie]

He isn't the greatest overhead either.
Gotta disagree with you, I think wing is his best go.

The fact you state he is not great overhead is exactly why he should not be on a wing. Wingmen are often 1 VRS 1 and on this basis alone he would be beaten more times than not.

 

[Quicky]

Then Buckley is also wrong as that is where he chooses to play Clarke.
In his early days Johnson was an average defender and an awful kick to boot, yet he turned it around over time. As mentioned in the prior post I have not singled Clark out as a defender, he may end up best suited to HF?? What I do know is that the time he spends as a defender will serve him well in the future if moved forward.

You say that first statement as though it invalidates my opinion. Buckley will be wrong from time to time. If he sees Clarke as a defender than yeah i'd say he is wrong.

I'm not sure i'd call Johnson a poor defender early days and he definitely was never a poor kick. He had one anomalous year. He was an ugly kick but that is a totally different thing. Check out his DE stats.

Of those options I like Clarke as a forward more, he is a more instinctive offensive player and was the equivalent of the CHF in gaelic footy. The other option is to be the defensive side midfielder. When I say that I mean the midfielder that drops onto the defensive side of the ground when play starts. This used to be Wellinghams role (in 2011 anyway). That puts Clarke in the position to push back and take kick ins, provide that second linking option out of defense and apply tackling pressure. I could see a role for him there.

 

[Quicky]

The fact you state he is not great overhead is exactly why he should not be on a wing. Wingmen are often 1 VRS 1 and on this basis alone he would be beaten more times than not.

Disagree. It's an advantage but hardly a prerequisite for that position. I'd say a big tank to push into space, good footskills, footy nous to know when to link offensively, and importantly to time that run are the most important qualities to look for in a winger. Maybe we see the position differently.