Players deliberately ducking their heads to win free kicks

[HawkMongrel]

I didn't know selwood had a reputation for this before I saw this thread (living in sydney keeps you out of the loop ), but I noticed an incident today where he grabbed the ball at ground level, ran a few steps with his head still lowered and barged into the guts of burgers to win a free. the funny thing was, burgers was backing away with his hands up actually trying his best to avoid contact.

seemed like selwood made a deliberate attempt to initiate the contact by actually butting the would be tackler in the body with his head...

As I've said elsewhere, I can't wait for the day when that dropkick runs his head straight into the knee of an opponent and destroys himself. I will laugh heartily.

 

[Rors]

Joel Selwood thread

 

[NiceCunnington]

This has become extremely common.

Selwood is the master but everyone does it now.

Very frustrating to watch.

 

[AsianWithAFro]

It's hard to tell whether they are playing frees or not but if you really want to stop it simply win the contested ball. One of the worst I have seen is when Gary Rohan crawled up in a ball initiating contact.

 

[vesra]

As I've said elsewhere, I can't wait for the day when that dropkick runs his head straight into the knee of an opponent and destroys himself. I will laugh heartily.

Maybe a serious injury is the reality check that the flapper needs.

 

[Chief Crow]

Dangerfield was doing it all day today.

Your right, Danger was always first to the ball and at the bottom of the packs trying to get up . Try teaching your players how to tackle to avoid giving a free away.

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

don't bother getting sucked into a argument with LLD. I think he/she only posts here to annoy people...

I love riling up idiots, it's true.

I didn't know selwood had a reputation for this before I saw this thread (living in sydney keeps you out of the loop ), but I noticed an incident today where he grabbed the ball at ground level, ran a few steps with his head still lowered and barged into the guts of burgers to win a free. the funny thing was, burgers was backing away with his hands up actually trying his best to avoid contact.

seemed like selwood made a deliberate attempt to initiate the contact by actually butting the would be tackler in the body with his head...

You're a prime target. Selwood WAS WINNING THE FOOTBALL. He does not have eyes in the top of his head. He is not going to stand back like Burgoyne and wait for someone else to get the footy, just because someone might hit his head. If you sat and watched the game objectively, you would see the difference between a Selwood/Dangerfield winning the football and getting contacted, and Cyril Rioli who has the football already, sees a player coming on, and bends in half straight into them.

Your right, Danger was always first to the ball and at the bottom of the packs trying to get up . Try teaching your players know how to tackle to avoid giving a free away.

So many muppets cannot appreciate a player hard at it because the umpires pay them a couple of free kicks.

 

[hk89]

He is not going to stand back like Burgoyne and wait for someone else to get the footy, just because someone might hit his head.

Don't watch a lot of non-Geelong games then? Burgoyne had roughly the same ratio of contested to non-contested possessions as Selwood. Selwood got a few more because Burgoyne's fitness at the moment doesn't allow him to get to as many contests, so he had fewer possessions overall. As well as having the silky skills of an outside mid, Burgoyne wins plenty of his own ball.

If you sat and watched the game objectively,

Which you are clearly unable to do. A bunch of opposition supporters recognize that Selwood is a master of deliberately ducking his head and running into his opponent using his head as a battering ram/free kick attractor. This is is perhaps nothing to be ashamed of, it often works, so there is no reason for him to stop doing it. He's also not the only player going around that does this, as others have mentioned Bateman for the hawks has been doing this for a while too, and I've seen Hodge do it on occasion.

I don't think this is what Cyril is doing, his head high contact (which he often doesn't get frees for) appears to be more about attempts at evading the tackle with some matrix like body contortions, but unlike you, I can admit I might not be able to make an objective call on this. If a bunch of opposition supporters were regularly making the observation that he was deliberately milking frees, I'd consider my opinion might be tainted by my support of the team he plays for.

So many muppets cannot appreciate a player hard at it because the umpires pay them a couple of free kicks.

I don't think people are complaining about what Selwood does in order to get the hard ball (something he excels at), it is what he does afterwards that people are concerned about. The only reason you can't see it is because he plays for your team. Understandable , but a bit of a barrier in getting any sensible discussion from you on the topic.

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

Don't watch a lot of non-Geelong games then? Burgoyne had roughly the same ratio of contested to non-contested possessions as Selwood. Selwood got a few more because Burgoyne's fitness at the moment doesn't allow him to get to as many contests, so he had fewer possessions overall. As well as having the silky skills of an outside mid, Burgoyne wins plenty of his own ball.

Which you are clearly unable to do. A bunch of opposition supporters recognize that Selwood is a master of deliberately ducking his head and running into his opponent using his head as a battering ram/free kick attractor. This is is perhaps nothing to be ashamed of, it often works, so there is no reason for him to stop doing it. He's also not the only player going around that does this, as others have mentioned Bateman for the hawks has been doing this for a while too, and I've seen Hodge do it on occasion.

I don't think this is what Cyril is doing, his head high contact (which he often doesn't get frees for) appears to be more about attempts at evading the tackle with some matrix like body contortions, but unlike you, I can admit I might not be able to make an objective call on this. If a bunch of opposition supporters were regularly making the observation that he was deliberately milking frees, I'd consider my opinion might be tainted by my support of the team he plays for.

I don't think people are complaining about what Selwood does in order to get the hard ball (something he excels at), it is what he does afterwards that people are concerned about. The only reason you can't see it is because he plays for your team. Understandable , but a bit of a barrier in getting any sensible discussion from you on the topic.

He does win many free kicks by trying to slip under a tacklers arms, mostly by raising his own arms when he is being tackled in that area. This wil cause the tackle to slide up to head/neck height, which about 50/50 will result in a free kick. This is an attempt to evade a tackle, much like your explanation for Rioli's ducking, which I tend to agree with.

But I would love for you to point out an instance of Joel Selwood earning a free kick by deliberately running headfirst into an opposition player. A youtube video would be ideal, there must be plenty of evidence about?

And I will never cede an argument because 'everybody else thinks so, it must be right'.

 

[hk89]

He does win many free kicks by trying to slip under a tacklers arms, mostly by raising his own arms when he is being tackled in that area. This wil cause the tackle to slide up to head/neck height, which about 50/50 will result in a free kick. This is an attempt to evade a tackle, much like your explanation for Rioli's ducking, which I tend to agree with.

I've got no doubt this happens too, but the the ones people seem to be complaining about are where he does what one poster has called the 'bulldozer'.

But I would love for you to point out an instance of Joel Selwood earning a free kick by deliberately running headfirst into an opposition player. A youtube video would be ideal, there must be plenty of evidence about?

Thought he got one early in Saturdays game, and I think others have referred to the same incident, but I try not to be too harsh about incidents I'm a lot further away from than the umpire. Unlike some features of the game, I think calls on this type of thing are clearer when viewing TV footage, which shows things at a proximity and angle not possible during the game.

I don't have footage of todays game, but if you can find something on the incident in the first quarter that shows him making a legitimate attempt to evade the tackle, rather than a cynical grab at a free kick, I'll be happy to admit I'm wrong on THAT incident. But I've seen enough on TV in the past to have little doubt Selwood is guilty of this more often than other players, which isn't to say every head high free he gets is of this type, he's hard at the ball, and often has his head over it, so I'm sure he gets a bunch of legitimate frees for head high contact as well. I doubt you'd easily find footage on youtube, most stuff on there appears to be highlight collections showcasing individual talents, it's unlikely someone is going to be bothered putting together a collection of "Selwood's greatest ducks" (although it would be convenient if they had ).

And I will never cede an argument because 'everybody else thinks so, it must be right'.

Fair enough too, but it would take a stubborn fool to rule out the possibility that perhaps the vast majority of opposition supporters might have it right, and you might be looking at Selwood's acts through a somewhat biased lens.

 

[Buddy Goes Bang]

Selwood won two free kicks yesterday by driving his head into a stationary opponent.

Burgoyne did everything possible apart from teleporting himself out of the way and Selwood still managed to manufacture a collision.

 

[Leon]

But I would love for you to point out an instance of Joel Selwood earning a free kick by deliberately running headfirst into an opposition player.

Two examples of him ducking his head in yesterday's game have been pointed out to you already.

 

[Ron The Bear]

So where Adam used to get frees...

Adam still gets 'em, I watched him get 7 last week. Equal second in the comp for frees received.

The problem is that, in attempting to eliminate grey areas from the rules, all discretion on the part of umpires has been removed. When they see high contact they pay the free, regardless of the circumstances.

This preference for discarding human skill and experience in favour of mechanical processes, exemplified by umpires' directives and the MRP system, brings to mind a quote from The Power Of One that has stayed with me: "Ruthless logic is the sign of a limited mind."

 

[blackhead&boil]

Adam still gets 'em, I watched him get 7 last week. Equal second in the comp for frees received.

The problem is that, in attempting to eliminate grey areas from the rules, all discretion on the part of umpires has been removed. When they see high contact they pay the free, regardless of the circumstances.

This preference for discarding human skill and experience in favour of mechanical processes, exemplified by umpires' directives and the MRP system, brings to mind a quote from The Power Of One that has stayed with me: "Ruthless logic is the sign of a limited mind."

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

I've got no doubt this happens too, but the the ones people seem to be complaining about are where he does what one poster has called the 'bulldozer'.

Thought he got one early in Saturdays game, and I think others have referred to the same incident, but I try not to be too harsh about incidents I'm a lot further away from than the umpire. Unlike some features of the game, I think calls on this type of thing are clearer when viewing TV footage, which shows things at a proximity and angle not possible during the game.

I don't have footage of todays game, but if you can find something on the incident in the first quarter that shows him making a legitimate attempt to evade the tackle, rather than a cynical grab at a free kick, I'll be happy to admit I'm wrong on THAT incident.

The one in the first quarter was a perfect example. Head down, moving forward slightly tracking and collecting the football, make pretty much incidental contact with Burgoyne (I think), ball came free and Geelong were away. The free kick was a hindrance to them more than a help, and it was neither an attempt to evade a tackle or milk a free kick. It was just normal footy, happens 10 times a game.

Two examples of him ducking his head in yesterday's game have been pointed out to you already.

Embarrassing that you think the first was ducking the head. Any other player in the comp and it's completely ignored.

Have no idea what happened with the second, I don't remember it.

 

[alfy!]

As I've said elsewhere, I can't wait for the day when that dropkick runs his head straight into the knee of an opponent and destroys himself. I will laugh heartily.

Maybe a serious injury is the reality check that the flapper needs.

Hawthorn and Saints fans; classy as always.

 

[winty]

As I've said elsewhere, I can't wait for the day when that dropkick runs his head straight into the knee of an opponent and destroys himself. I will laugh heartily.

Class!

I just hope you're similarly in hysterics if the same thing happens to Cyril.

 

[jerry springer]

it will stop soon enough when someone does a serious neck injury

it is inevitable

 

[The Falcon Strike]

Adam still gets 'em, I watched him get 7 last week. Equal second in the comp for frees received.

The problem is that, in attempting to eliminate grey areas from the rules, all discretion on the part of umpires has been removed. When they see high contact they pay the free, regardless of the circumstances.

This preference for discarding human skill and experience in favour of mechanical processes, exemplified by umpires' directives and the MRP system, brings to mind a quote from The Power Of One that has stayed with me: "Ruthless logic is the sign of a limited mind."

Down to equal third now. -

I didn't realise that - one thing you won't get me arguing is whether he is a ducker or not. I haven't seen enough of Troy to comment - but the other 3 love trying to win high free kicks by diving low at the tackler.

He's not up with Phil Matera in terms of the staging though....

 

[Leon]

Embarrassing that you think the first was ducking the head. Any other player in the comp and it's completely ignored.

Have no idea what happened with the second, I don't remember it.

Embarrassing is how you and other Cats fans think he doesn't do it.

Stop claiming it's some sort of persecution/jealousy complex - it isn't. Selwood isn't the only player in the comp that does it, but he's got plenty of form with it and thus gets criticised a lot for it.

As for your earlier comment in the thread i.e "I dont believe X just because everyone else thinks so" or whatever, tell us this: why do so many people reckon he is a head ducker? Why are we so wrong and you're so right?

Do you think maybe it's because a fair few of us have actually watched him play over the last few years

And again, I assure you, it is not some sort of jealousy complex. I dont have anything against Selwood - think he is a super player and would love to have him - but calling him a head ducker is calling a spade a spade.

 

[winty]

Embarrassing is how you and other Cats fans think he doesn't do it.

Stop claiming it's some sort of persecution/jealousy complex - it isn't. Selwood isn't the only player in the comp that does it, but he's got plenty of form with it and thus gets criticised a lot for it.

As for your earlier comment in the thread i.e "I dont believe X just because everyone else thinks so" or whatever, tell us this: why do so many people reckon he is a head ducker? Why are we so wrong and you're so right?

Do you think maybe it's because a fair few of us have actually watched him play over the last few years

And again, I assure you, it is not some sort of jealousy complex. I dont have anything against Selwood - think he is a super player and would love to have him - but calling him a head ducker is calling a spade a spade.

Of course a fair few of you have watched him play over the last few years, but how many of you have watched him play week in, week out? Most Geelong supporters would've, which has allowed us enough time to figure out how he does it, and more often than not, it has nothing to do with ducking his head. LLD was spot on when talking about how Selwood raises his arm when he feels contact on his upper arm, which causes the tackler's hands to fall down across his shoulders.

Maybe if you got to watch him as much as we have, you'd have time to figure it out for yourself, rather than listen to commentators say he ducks into tackles, and take their word as gospel.

 

[Nardz]

Maybe if you got to watch him as much as we have, you'd have time to figure it out for yourself, rather than listen to commentators say he ducks into tackles, and take their word as gospel.

or maybe if you got to watch him without bias, and as a neutral, you might see it for what it really is and what everyone else sees.

 

[Spook]

luke hodge has been doing it longer than selwood and gets just as many free kicks from it

You TWIT..... FFS

 

[BONG RIPS MKII]

You TWIT..... FFS

luke hodge is a ducker

deal with it

 

[burto]

Of course Selwood ducks into tackles. So does Rioli (turned it into an art on the weekend).

But the difference between the way these two duck (as opposed to someone like Angus Monfries) is that Selwood/Rioli do it to evade tackles. Selwood very rarely needs to go back and take the kick because it is always called advantage since he has managed to get it out of the pack. Whereas Monfries ducks/dives because he is too ordinary to win the ball properly.