Playing matches in NZ

[NarrowMind]

Another factor being overlooked is that of potential sponsorship. Imagine the $$$ to the club coffers if a global brand like Air New Zealand made a commitment.
Obviously i'm just spit balling atm.

As CursingFijian pointed out, our efforts shouldn't be to be seen as a threat to either major winter codes across the ditch, but to be prepared to steadily grow our share in the Kiwi sporting market through community involvement in a city that has a strong sporting community.

 

[stavro#4]

$$$ involved for us is enormous and will make a massive difference when it comes to our Moorabbin designs

 

[plugger66]

If we commit to Auckland long term it will work, but we need to lower our crowd expectations. There were 17,500 at the Hobart game tonight, in a footy state. So 13,000 plus(out last crowd in Wellington) isn't so bad in real terms in comparison.

The facts that there are 35,000 kids playing kiwi kick every week suggests to me there is real potential, they just need to get a proper junior league going that will support under 13 to under 17.

If the AFL are serious they will invest in that market with man power and hours, not just money. I know a lot of Kiwis who refuse to let their kids play league or union as its hard running straight at 130 kg kids who are trying to kill you.

Its hard to get more than the stadium holds. And yes we can think of reasons why they should like our game but go over there and mention our sport to most NZers and they wont have a clue. I don't even get why the AFL have this fascination with wanting AFL to work in another country. Surely we need to get our country right first. And the crowd numbers aren't important to NZ. Wellington didn't continue because not enough money came into the city from us so it wasn't worth the cost. If 30k turned up at the game and only 5 came from Australia Auckland will get rid of us. If 10K come and 6K come from Australia they will love us. Anyway at the moment there isn't even a ground so until that is solved its a long way off. Our club seem to have a few things on the go. I wish they would get the most important one up and running and that's back to Moorabbin and our own reserves side.

As for someone else saying where could we play well I would have looked at Cairns. Maybe the club did and we couldn't get any money. Who knows.

 

[plugger66]

$$$ involved for us is enormous and will make a massive difference when it comes to our Moorabbin designs

Makes no sense at all. We will be at Moorabbin before we play in NZ. I cant believe the club cant get the money. Melbourne got something 3 million from supporters to bail them out of the crap a few years ago. Don't we have supporters with money? We bloody well should.

 

[Kildonan]

There are several levels at which to view this:
From the AFL's point of view - expansion - wider audience - wider sponsor base - wider talent base - potential future international club establishment/s
From St Kilda's point of view - sources of income - potential sponsorships - potentially first choice of untapped talent pool (both sexes) - brand exposure

 

[BrianSpeaking]

It's a no brainer as we ducked Tassy up. Need to get Air NZ or Fonterra on board, huge potential if we are committed.

 

[Dopey BJ]

It's a no brainer as we ducked Tassy up. Need to get Air NZ or Fonterra on board, huge potential if we are committed.

Great point Fronterra are huge up here on the Murray even if their getting a bit of bad publicity at the moment they are a big employer

 

[StFly]

Makes no sense at all. We will be at Moorabbin before we play in NZ. I cant believe the club cant get the money. Melbourne got something 3 million from supporters to bail them out of the crap a few years ago. Don't we have supporters with money? We bloody well should.

Financing is vastly different to debt reduction, or have you also forgotten Save Our Saints and we're you not with us on the streets shaking cans for donations for the club?

Supporters, members and the general footballing public will always dip in if it means the survival of a club from certain demise, hell I went in to bat for Fitzroy and I'm sure I'm not alone on that front because it was a goddamn travesty. Should Fitzroy however have asked me for monies to build a new centre in Seaford, I'd have told them where to stick it.

Money from a venture into a new market and agreements and etc that can come with it sticking are enormous because it's not limited to Australia, it's whole other economy, plus benefits from the Australian economy. The Hawthorn Tasmanian deal is worth $19m across 5 years, or 3.8m per year for 4 games or $950,000 per game (as reported), regardless of attendance, they just have to show up and attempt to play.

That is from an Australian state economy.

New Zealand is a sovereign nation, whose economy rivals Australias, as a whole. We've generally made agreements with individual towns with the AFL making agreements with larger bodies and filtering through to us whilst taking a cut effectively. NZ sticks in any capacity, and inevitably it will as it's the logical next step if the sport wants to grow beyond the Australian borders, we need to be at the head of it because it will set us up to launch if we are good enough, and if we are good enough to launch then the sport in NZ might also grow and it'll be a knock on effect. The issue, is that people seem to expect this to take 5-10 years, they seem to expect instant results where instead I'm of the opinion that I won't see it and it'll be generational before any sort of lasting change will occur if AFL grows or stays as a tiny national sport globally and the dominant winter sport in Australia.

If the AFL is serious which they appear to be, having learned a lesson from Fitzroy and that admin, and the people of NZ grow to accept the sport, not to the level of Rugby or any large expectation as the dominant sport, but as an equal, a viable alternative, the game will be fine, it will grow, it will spread, it'll not just be Australias national, it'll be Oceania's sport. Then, the game can launch to Asia proper, to North America, to the UK..

But hell, it'd be great if one day, on this planet, we have a Winter Olympics with Aussie Rules footy, in a couple hundred years.

 

[gringo2011]

I live in the world of fact and fact at the moment is it failed the first time. And its a bit pot kettle black coming you who doesn't look at the form of Geary before calling for his dropping every single week without fail.

I just would rather us go somewhere in Australia where we may get the benefit of real members.

I think Tasmania failed the first time because we are reactive as a club and blamed tasmania for our lack of success. the Hawks and North just walked in and took up our pioneering work and made a go of it. You can't really do it for 2 years, say we got nothing out of it and walk away. It's got to be a long term club commitment and really be in wth the AFL on it. With teams like Geelong getting $1million per game out of their stadium we need to do things like this to even slightly compete. You might get a few members in some remote spots in Australia but where would you go now. Darwin has a population that is so small it's not feasible and Tasmania is taken.

 

[gringo2011]

Don't under estimate the international nature of the average kiwi, and their ability to appreciate other sports aside from rugby. All my kiwi mates identify with an AFL club and enjoy participating in a little bit of water cooler talk on a Monday and a Friday.

The trick will be to somehow generate enough interest to motivate fans to engage financially with the club, and buy merchandise and become members. The fastest way to do that would be to market the Saints as a kiwi club, but that would also ostracise our traditional supporter base.

The best way to market it is to engage the kids, connect with the community, market it as a fun, professional, athletically demanding, visually spectacular alternative sport. But most importantly don't try to fight rugby head on, rather form an alliance. Use the media platform afforded us to acknowledge all NZ sporting teams, especially the All Blacks, and behave like a fan in the first instance, and an alternative sport in the second. I think it was David Parkin, who said the All Blacks are the most professional sporting club in the world, in his opinion. And he made mention of the fact he's seen the inner workings of EPL, NFL and NBL franchises. The AB's do draw on AFL educators to teach skills especially around kicking. Perhaps we could offer up our coaching talent in return for some cross code exposure.

There would be more gained from offering AFL up as an alternative to cricket and basketball rather than rugby. Make the conversation about how athletically challenging, professionally run, and financially rewarding the AFL is and they will come.

The Wellington years shouldn't be seen as a waste. For this venture to succeed the whole of NZ has to be on board, and our time in Wellington will have been important groundwork.

What I would say is that nothing will come to fruition in the short term. If we are interested we have to be in it for the long term and ensure that we derive some form of advantage for our commitment to the NZ market like getting free academy picks.

We should also be looking for a gun forward in NZ. One 'Kiwi' Carey and the rest will be history.

I'm seeing an all black Saints kit with a discrete shield logo for NZ games....it would look bad ass and appeal to the Kiwis.

 

[cartel]

Developing a secondary market is a must for a small club like us.
North have got Tasmania, and significant AFL assistance there.
Dogs have been granted Ballarat territory.

We need to do something to ensure we are still around in ten, twenty, a hundred years time.
The AFL is currently supportive of the model of Vic teams we have now, but the turnaround from pushing North to the Gold Coast to gifting them an academy in Tasmania to keep the viable in Melbourne is significant

 

[plugger66]

People do realise the first attempt failed. Yes different city with no ground at the moment which is rather important but still the same rugby loving people. I dont know a lot about NZ but I do know they care far to much about the rugby codes to ever really worry about AFL. Even soccer is struggling and the soccer side were lucky to survive. I think one has already folded.

And St Fly Melbourne weren't going to fold when they raised 3 or 4 million dollars. It can be done if you have the will even if it isn't about the club surviving. And I'm all for a second market but in our country were we at least care about AFL and you don't need a passport to visit.

 

[#gosaintas]

If the AFL and the NZ Govt back it, it will work. There are always nuffies out there who lack vision.

 

[plugger66]

If the AFL and the NZ Govt back it, it will work. There are always nuffies out there who lack vision.

Like last time.

 

[St Kilda Death]

I wouldn't be suprised if the kiwis are far more open minded to afl than qlders and western sydney.

 

[Saintbloke]

I think we would be better off striking a deal with the Yanks and playing a game in LA - bigger coverage, bigger dollars. The Yanks I speak to are interested in Aussie Rules, compared to the Kiwis I speak to who don't give hoot, and at the best, just want to talk rugby.

 

[#gosaintas]

Like last time.

NZ is a work in progress. It's a current strategic push yet you have already measured it as a failure. After 3 years in Wellington we are attempting to switch to Auckland as there will (hopefully) be a suitable venue there. We have pocketed the money from the Wellington games and we sure needed it. The NZ idea needs to be measured over 20 years, not 3. Give it time. We need to do something otherwise we are doomed to stay on the financial bottom of the ladder. Get a passport and get out a bit. Auckland would be fun for a few days with a Saints game thrown in. Sounds like you'd also feel at home at Kuta in Bali so at least you could use the passport for a couple of different trips.

 

[plugger66]

I wouldn't be suprised if the kiwis are far more open minded to afl than qlders and western sydney.

Should have told them that last time we were there.

 

[plugger66]

NZ is a work in progress. It's a current strategic push yet you have already measured it as a failure. After 3 years in Wellington we are attempting to switch to Auckland as there will (hopefully) be a suitable venue there. We have pocketed the money from the Wellington games and we sure needed it. The NZ idea needs to be measured over 20 years, not 3. Give it time. We need to do something otherwise we are doomed to stay on the financial bottom of the ladder. Get a passport and get out a bit. Auckland would be fun for a few days with a Saints game thrown in. Sounds like you'd also feel at home at Kuta in Bali so at least you could use the passport for a couple of different trips.

Thanks for the advise but I have a passport and I have been to a game in NZ. And only ever stayed in legion when I went to Bali. What do you mean by that comment anyway? Sounds like a sledge. Cant you handle a serious discussion without getting personal. I suppose I should know that the disgusting way you speak about Geary.

 

[NarrowMind]

People do realise the first attempt failed. Yes different city with no ground at the moment which is rather important but still the same rugby loving people. I dont know a lot about NZ but I do know they care far to much about the rugby codes to ever really worry about AFL. Even soccer is struggling and the soccer side were lucky to survive. I think one has already folded.

And St Fly Melbourne weren't going to fold when they raised 3 or 4 million dollars. It can be done if you have the will even if it isn't about the club surviving. And I'm all for a second market but in our country were we at least care about AFL and you don't need a passport to visit.

The A League side you mentioned failed due to it having an uncompetitive squad and the fact they played at an extremely undesirable location miles out of Auckland in Albany.

You keep stating you want a second market in Australia, fine, but where?
I and several others have directly asked you and the only response was Cairns, a place I highly doubt will reward us financially as well as a well structured NZ project.

Fwiw as well, there is an existing ground at western springs so to say there isn't one simply isn't true. Granted an overhaul is needed.

 

[CursingFijian]

I'm seeing an all black Saints kit with a discrete shield logo for NZ games....it would look bad ass and appeal to the Kiwis.

I'll buy two of those please!

 

[St Kilda Death]

Should have told them that last time we were there.

Would have helped if we won a game first time round.
We are a better team to watch these days.

 

[gringo2011]

The A League side you mentioned failed due to it having an uncompetitive squad and the fact they played at an extremely undesirable location miles out of Auckland in Albany.

You keep stating you want a second market in Australia, fine, but where?
I and several others have directly asked you and the only response was Cairns, a place I highly doubt will reward us financially as well as a well structured NZ project.

Fwiw as well, there is an existing ground at western springs so to say there isn't one simply isn't true. Granted an overhaul is needed.

The Tigers were doing Cairns, i was up there when the Tigers were going home after getting trounced there. The fans were ****ed off with the team and they had to wait in the same area together for the late plane. It was actually pretty funny to watch. Cairns is a terrible climate for footy, hot wet and humidity so high you sweat in the rain. The whole place is full of back packers and drunks and would have a permanent population smaller than ballarat.

 

[plugger66]

The A League side you mentioned failed due to it having an uncompetitive squad and the fact they played at an extremely undesirable location miles out of Auckland in Albany.

You keep stating you want a second market in Australia, fine, but where?
I and several others have directly asked you and the only response was Cairns, a place I highly doubt will reward us financially as well as a well structured NZ project.

Fwiw as well, there is an existing ground at western springs so to say there isn't one simply isn't true. Granted an overhaul is needed.

Have you seen the size of the ground? It is no where near AFL ready. Its like saying Elsternwick Park in an AFL ground. It seems im pretty much on my own with this and I hope all you guys are right.

 

[plugger66]

The Tigers were doing Cairns, i was up there when the Tigers were going home after getting trounced there. The fans were stuffed off with the team and they had to wait in the same area together for the late plane. It was actually pretty funny to watch. Cairns is a terrible climate for footy, hot wet and humidity so high you sweat in the rain. The whole place is full of back packers and drunks and would have a permanent population smaller than ballarat.

High humidity and Rain in Winter? Come off it Gringo.