Opinion Politics (warning, may contain political views you disagree with)

[Sherriff Incorporated]

Julian Assange's wife Stella says they will seek a pardon as part of US plea deal

WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange is expected to return to Australia after court proceedings in a US territory, and face no new prison time.

www.sbs.com.au

Stella already in Sydney waiting??

Great news.

 

[King Huskii]

Great news.

I disagree

He initially fled as he didn't want to pay the consequences for breaking the law.

 

[E Shed]

No. Again you seem to have an issue with the truth. What's been said is that's while its currently illegal to create nuclear energy there is no scope for private investment. If that were to change costs would go down hugely just like they have in Ontario Canada and the recently opened the 35Billion dollar Vogtle plant in Georgia, USA.
I'd love you to explain how you think achieving net zero is possible without reliable base load energy. Its a choice of fossil fuels or nuclear for that.

Vogtle Unit 4 enters commercial operation

/PRNewswire/ -- Georgia Power declared today that Plant Vogtle Unit 4 has entered commercial operation and is now serving customers and the State of Georgia....

www.prnewswire.com

Ontario Welcomes $80 Million Nuclear Manufacturing Investment in Cambridge | Laura Smith, MPP

The Ontario government is welcoming a $80 million investment by BWX Technologies, Inc. (BWXT) to expand their Cambridge nuclear manufacturing plant. Their investment will create more than 250 new skilled, unionized jobs in Cambridge and support Ontario’s expansion of reliable, affordable and...

laurasmithmpp.ca

I’m trying to understand what private investment has to do with anything when Dutton clearly said future Coalition Government would pay the full cost of building, running and maintaining these nuclear reactors with taxpayer money?

What am I missing about the point you’re trying to make?

If anything when the government is signing the cheques things tend to get more expensive.

 

[BlueE]

I disagree

He initially fled as he didn't want to pay the consequences for breaking the law.

Now you've really exposed yourself as a propagandist that blows in the wind, going off half cocked on everything.

His indictment was recognised at the time as blueprint for making journalists or more correctly publishers into felons.

Chelsea Manning broke the law and embarrassed the US government by taking classified documents that showed them [performing illegal acting the Iraq war and lying to it's own citizens. Same same as the Ellsberg copying 7000 pages of the Pentagon papers report and passing these to NYT and WaPo who published it.

From the NYT in Greenwald link below.










Starting around 18 -25 min

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Initially, and up till now really, we've been given the impression that Assange was a hero for what he did. But I've read a few articles and heard commentary lately that throw a not so complimentary light on the events and the person.

It's good that he's free, he's certainly served quite a severe punishment. We don't like our citizens incarcerated overseas, but I hope he's not lionized for the next however long by adoring media, and gets a job as a barista or something.

 

[Sherriff Incorporated]

I’m trying to understand what private investment has to do with anything when Dutton clearly said future Coalition Government would pay the full cost of building, running and maintaining these nuclear reactors with taxpayer money?

What am I missing about the point you’re trying to make?

If anything when the government is signing the cheques things tend to get more expensive.

Because Government owned doesn;t mean their cant be private investment to pay for some of the costs as thats what has happened all over the world just like in some of the examples Ive quoted.

Whats actually happened all over the world is that funding has come from private investment to help get projects up and running and to cover part of the costs which is why in so many places in the world energy prices have gotten lower just like Ontario Canada, Nuclear energy is actually very much making a comeback as an energy source and its due to advancements in technology for the reuse of nulear waste. Bangladesh, India,China, USA, Saudi Arabia and South Africa just some of the countries who have approved funding of nuclear energy projects in recent times yet the likes of CSIRO scientists (none of whom have any experience or qualifications on nuclear energy) get prioritised over actual nuclear experts. Only a very small percentage of bodies linked to current government funding have spoken out against nuclear energy. Here's an actual expert.

Nuclear Power in Bangladesh - World Nuclear Association

Bangladesh plans to have two large Russian nuclear power reactors in operation in the 2020s. This is to meet rapidly-increasing demand and reduce dependence on natural gas.

world-nuclear.org

 

[E Shed]

Because Government owned doesn;t mean their cant be private investment to pay for some of the costs as thats what has happened all over the world just like in some of the examples Ive quoted.

Then why would Dutton say the Government will pay 100% of the costs? 100%. Not some, all the cost.

They don't exactly have a great track record of getting value for money for Government Contracts. With Palladin & water rights on the Murray Darling, consultants. The last Coalition Government consistently overpaid for everything.

 

[Taylor]

I don't want outside interests owning critical service providers.

I fully expect electric and water to operate at a loss. I'd rather there weren't politically motivated billionaires owning national infrastructure and able to "shut down for maintenance" if they need to leverage the government to get what they want.

 

[Sherriff Incorporated]

Then why would Dutton say the Government will pay 100% of the costs? 100%. Not some, all the cost.

They don't exactly have a great track record of getting value for money for Government Contracts. With Palladin & water rights on the Murray Darling, consultants. The last Coalition Government consistently overpaid for everything.

Because they cant allow for anyinvestment in their costings until laws are changed. What is 100% bullshit is that nulear energy has resulted in mre exptensive energy once it comes online anywhere in the world and I mean taking into account building costs. Australian science bodies are getting laughed at by people from countries where nuclear energy is already operational. Listen to an actual nuclear expert in clip I sent you. No nuclear scientist works at the CSIRO. Calling that report junk science is offensive to junk in my opinion. Every govt department has to support govt dept messaging. Ive known two people who have worked at the CSIRO who've explained how thats the case and that's where my mistrust for the CSIRO information comes from .

Incase anyone's not aware the funding allocation for CSIRO has been cut massively by the Albo govt in recent times so they're not in a strong position to speak out against a govt policy. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-12-12/csiro-cut-to-the-bone-after-funding-cuts/5963994

 

[E Shed]

Because they cant allow for anyinvestment in their costings until laws are changed. What is 100% bullshit is that nulear energy has resulted in mre exptensive energy once it comes online anywhere in the world and I mean taking into account building costs. Australian science bodies are getting laughed at by people from countries where nuclear energy is already operational. Listen to an actual nuclear expert in clip I sent you. No nuclear scientist works at the CSIRO. Calling that report junk science is offensive to junk in my opinion. Every govt department has to support govt dept messaging. Ive known two people who have worked at the CSIRO who've explained how thats the case and that's where my mistrust for the CSIRO information comes from .

Incase anyone's not aware the funding allocation for CSIRO has been cut massively by the Albo govt in recent times so they're not in a strong position to speak out against a govt policy. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-12-12/csiro-cut-to-the-bone-after-funding-cuts/5963994

Thanks. You obviously know more about the nitty gritty than I do.

I grew up in an era when nuclear was seen as crazy and I suppose I still do believe that anything that has the potential for harm that nuclear does and waste products that continue to be toxic for 1000's years can't be a good idea.
I don't trust humans not to take shortcuts or make mistakes.

That and I wouldn't trust the current Liberal/National opposition to build a dog kennel. They made some absolute howlers in government. I wouldn't trust labor either as they appear to be almost as incompetent as SCOMO's mob.

I can see contractors lining up rubbing their hands and adding zeroes to the contracts. Too many ex ministers end up with lucrative positions with companies that have just happened to win fat contracts when they were ministers.

This would be the biggest and most expensive infrastructure spend in the nations history and the idea of Dutton being in charge of it . . . let's just say I don't think it would end well. His record with offshore contracts doesn't bode well.

I'm glad some people think it's a good idea. Perhaps there's hope for it.

 

[Sherriff Incorporated]

Thanks. You obviously know more about the nitty gritty than I do.

I grew up in an era when nuclear was seen as crazy and I suppose I still do believe that anything that has the potential for harm that nuclear does and waste products that continue to be toxic for 1000's years can't be a good idea.
I don't trust humans not to take shortcuts or make mistakes.

That and I wouldn't trust the current Liberal/National opposition to build a dog kennel. They made some absolute howlers in government. I wouldn't trust labor either as they appear to be almost as incompetent as SCOMO's mob.

I can see contractors lining up rubbing their hands and adding zeroes to the contracts. Too many ex ministers end up with lucrative positions with companies that have just happened to win fat contracts when they were ministers.

This would be the biggest and most expensive infrastructure spend in the nations history and the idea of Dutton being in charge of it . . . let's just say I don't think it would end well. His record with offshore contracts doesn't bode well.

I'm glad some people think it's a good idea. Perhaps there's hope for it.

I'm no fan of Dutton (far from it) but I don't get the idea he'd be worse managing an infrastructure project than the ALP. Have a look at all the cost blowouts in infrastructure projects with ALP in charge of most states and federally since the ALP has gotten in. We are lucky in WA in terms of the WA state Govt seemingly having way less infrastructure disasters than say Victoria. I see both major parties as being equally terrible in terms of implementing the policies they preach. Small nuclear reactors have more merit than Bowen is making out. I see them as an inevitable part of our energy future.

 

[Bicco]

Because they cant allow for anyinvestment in their costings until laws are changed

Why is that?

What is 100% bullshit is that nulear energy has resulted in mre exptensive energy once it comes online

Are you sure about that?

State regulators approve 12% Georgia Power rate hike to start this summer • Georgia Recorder

Customers ofbeginning in June as the company recoups fuel costs.

georgiarecorder.com

 

[Sherriff Incorporated]

Why is that?

Are you sure about that?

State regulators approve 12% Georgia Power rate hike to start this summer • Georgia Recorder

Customers ofbeginning in June as the company recoups fuel costs.

georgiarecorder.com

Do you realise how well a 12% hike in power compares to the RE sector and places relying on RE heavily like Germany. Yes a 12% hike is nothing for consistent baseload energy in terms of a rise. You could also look at California and compare energy prices.

 

[wahooo]

Because they cant allow for anyinvestment in their costings until laws are changed.

There's a prohibition on nuclear. However, as far as I'm aware, there's no prohibition on estimating how much things cost.

They absolutely could include private investment in their (non-existent) costings if they wanted to. They could estimate a certain level of private investment and take that into account. It'd be a pretty flimsy estimate and their would be little utility in it but they could if they wanted.

If we follow your reasoning, the rational conclusion would be that they can't cost the project at all (ie, can't even estimate the spend the taxpayer will fork out) until the prohibition on nuclear is abolished.

Yes private investment could bring down costs of the technology etc., I accept that much. In fact, I think all posters would accept that point, it's basic economics. But even with a healthy level of private investment, we're still going to be forking out a lot of money for Dutton's policy. The issue with forking out that money, is that these things aren't going to be connected to the grid for a significant period of time and the Coalition don't have a policy to get us through that interim period. I'm not opposed to nuclear, I'm opposed to the Coalition's attempts to stifle investment in renewables because they think it will win them votes.

Was it on Insiders on Sunday that Ted O'Brien changed tune and said they'd be building multiple reactors at each location instead of one reactor at each? Guess we had better add a few zeroes to their non-existent costing. The opposition needs to get their shit together and get on the same page.

 

[Bicco]

Do you realise how well a 12% hike in power compares to the RE sector and places relying on RE heavily like Germany. Yes a 12% hike is nothing for consistent baseload energy in terms of a rise. You could also look at California and compare energy prices.

But it's not 100% bullshit that prices go up once nuclear comes online is it?

 

[Taylor]

Prices going up seems to be a correlation of time.

If we can build nuclear power it will not be victim to uncontrollable climate change outcomes, it will be owned by the government so it can run at plenty of loss as cost of living requires, it won't be able to be leveraged against politicians like bulk renewables backed by big financial interests elsewhere - they aren't doing it to not make money.

Nuclear is the best national security choice after doubling down on coal.

If you want to do some part towards low emissions, nuclear wins. If you appreciate that weather events will lead to destruction of large areas of renewable fields, then nuclear wins.

Since it's getting bulk government money anyway, we may as well pick the one that makes us strong against the unavoidable and coming disastrous weather.

 

[King Huskii]

Now you've really exposed yourself as a propagandist that blows in the wind, going off half cocked on everything.

His indictment was recognised at the time as blueprint for making journalists or more correctly publishers into felons.

Chelsea Manning broke the law and embarrassed the US government by taking classified documents that showed them [performing illegal acting the Iraq war and lying to it's own citizens. Same same as the Ellsberg copying 7000 pages of the Pentagon papers report and passing these to NYT and WaPo who published it.

From the NYT in Greenwald link below.

View attachment 2030559

View attachment 2030560
View attachment 2030565

View attachment 2030561
View attachment 2030566
View attachment 2030568

Starting around 18 -25 min

Hmm yeah ok

 

[Demons09]

With inflation going up again looks like more interest rates.

 

[BlueE]

I disagree

He initially fled as he didn't want to pay the consequences for breaking the law.

Hmm yeah ok

Yep.

I've agreed with you over many things but even then you throw tantrums over nothing and have just reinforced you jump on bandwagons without any understanding or thinking.

 

[BlueE]

Initially, and up till now really, we've been given the impression that Assange was a hero for what he did. But I've read a few articles and heard commentary lately that throw a not so complimentary light on the events and the person.

It's good that he's free, he's certainly served quite a severe punishment. We don't like our citizens incarcerated overseas, but I hope he's not lionized for the next however long by adoring media, and gets a job as a barista or something.

I'm curious what the commentaries and articles are?

 

[King Huskii]

Yep.

I've agreed with you over many things but even then you throw tantrums over nothing and have just reinforced you jump on bandwagons without any understanding or thinking.

How is this a bandwagon? You think he hasn't committed a crime and I do. It's a difference in opinion.

He's guilty, yet he and his family carry with a group of supporters like he should have been allowed to walk. He posted military secrets and people make him out as a hero. Now that's a bandwagon.

 

[King Huskii]

I'm curious what the commentaries and articles are?

Your ignoring his guilt

 

[BlueE]

How is this a bandwagon? You think he hasn't committed a crime and I do. It's a difference in opinion.

He's guilty, yet he and his family carry with a group of supporters like he should have been allowed to walk. He posted military secrets and people make him out as a hero. Now that's a bandwagon.

What crime?

As I said Manning admitted to and was convicted of the crime. It's happened before with Pentagon Papers and as the NYT stated no one ever in the history of the US has been convicted for publishing. Until the non US citizen or resident.

Yes there was a plea bargain for something, with time served.

Military secrets? Yes he embarrassed the US with war crimes bombing of citizens, which they had lied to the public about.

But you are jumping onto the bandwagon that you can't even back up what you are supposedly standing for! LOL. Except if you mean the lies Mike Pence is tweeting? Put it out there then.

Even the judge today admitted no one ever was put in danger or killed for the information that was released, following up from a 2010 Investigation quoted that "US Officials concede they have no evidence that the evidence led to anyone's death."

The documents were heavily redacted after offering to share them with Hillary as Sec of State, who refused to look at them before published.

 

[BlueE]

Your ignoring his guilt

Wasn't talking to you who can't even put one link up to support anything you say.

A result was arranged so Assange could move on.

Wait a few more days and there'll be another shiny object for you to jump up and down about.

 

[King Huskii]

What crime?

As I said Manning admitted to and was convicted of the crime. It's happened before with Pentagon Papers and as the NYT stated no one ever in the history of the US has been convicted for publishing. Until the non US citizen or resident.

Yes there was a plea bargain for something, with time served.

Military secrets? Yes he embarrassed the US with war crimes bombing of citizens, which they had lied to the public about.

But you are jumping onto the bandwagon that you can't even back up what you are supposedly standing for! LOL. Except if you mean the lies Mike Pence is tweeting? Put it out there then.

Even the judge today admitted no one ever was put in danger or killed for the information that was released, following up from a 2010 Investigation quoted that "US Officials concede they have no evidence that the evidence led to anyone's death."

The documents were heavily redacted after offering to share them with Hillary as Sec of State, who refused to look at them before published.

What crime? Releasing classified documents

I have backed it up. You are tip toeing around the facts.