Pollies have Police that report to .. the same Pollies

[Alite]

Why do the politicians have their own police in Canberra that repot to the people they might investigate?


This is awful, North Korea stuff. Yet no media, not political chat. All silent.

 

[tandino]

What alternative source of power would you have them report to instead?

 

[jim boy]

Ahh the old classic "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes (who guards the guardians?)" The old standard around who watches those who are tasked watching those in power.

Interestingly, this comes from Juvenal, who was actually referring to the situation where he accuses his wife of sleeping around and so he hires a guard to stop her infedility, but then he accuses her of being unfaithful with the guard.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

What alternative source of power would you have them report to instead?

True, but the coziness referred to in the OP is still a huge issue.

Look at the PWC saga.

PWC have done extremely dodgy things. PWC is referred to AFP. Whose books are done by PWC. What could possibly go wrong?

 

[Alite]

What alternative source of power would you have them report to instead?

Ahh the old classic "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes (who guards the guardians?)" The old standard around who watches those who are tasked watching those in power.

Interestingly, this comes from Juvenal, who was actually referring to the situation where he accuses his wife of sleeping around and so he hires a guard to stop her infedility, but then he accuses her of being unfaithful with the guard.

The “Government police“ (AFP) should ultimately report to the only person who can actually enforce change on the government = the Governor-General.

Yes the government appoints the Governor General (and the English King) but once appointed, that person is not beholden to them… and governemnts often change during the 5 year tenure of the GG.

Whitlem’s phrase, “Long may we say god save the queen, because nothing will save the Governor General“ was pithy, but the rule of Law did not back up this statement. Kerr did not have to leave early, he chose to for his own reasons.

The separation of powers is the most important concept in the governance of our society. It is the thing that strengths a fair result for all.

I can see good arguments for why our government requires special protections for the AFP. But control of those protections should not be in the hands of the politicians that may be investigated. Give the ultimate control to the GG.

Of course, what happens if the GG is dodgy… but if the GG’s only actual power is limited to keeping or sacking the government, as it is now… then there is no real threat from the GG.

If a federal politition is being investigated by the AFP for anything, then the default should be that the AFP investigators report to the GG.

Seperate the powers! I have to quote Keka, “you know it makes sense”.

 

[Pie eyed]

What you are really asking is why are Police so easily corrupted?

 

[Alite]

What you are really asking is why are Police so easily corrupted?

That is a different question and one well worth asking.

My question is, why can crimes be done (or not) in parliament and not be properly investigated. The answer currently is, the person who is in charge of the police and in political power can (and probably will.. given the nature of politics) affect the outcome of an investigation that may stuff up their job.

To think a politician will not use their influence to affect a positive outcome for their situation when they have the power to do so is like saying a drug addict will not take free drugs.

Proper policing of the Politicians is needed.

Rezoning of land areas to the benefit of those in the know. Tell me Mark Thompson was not given that inside information… likely by Costa and his connections.

This is a constant thing. We hear about few.

Tell me I am wrong…


I was not asking who police’s the police. That was not my point. Who ensures the politicians hold their integrity. That is my point.

 

[Kwality]

What you are really asking is why are Police so easily corrupted?

As easily as the politicians &/or the public servants/party apparatchiks. Yep, every bit.
Federally & in all States & Territories.
Not to mention local government.

 

[Kwality]

That is a different question and one well worth asking.

My question is, why can crimes be done (or not) in parliament and not be properly investigated. The answer currently is, the person who is in charge of the police and in political power can (and probably will.. given the nature of politics) affect the outcome of an investigation that may stuff up their job.

To think a politician will not use their influence to affect a positive outcome for their situation when they have the power to do so is like saying a drug addict will not take free drugs.

Proper policing of the Politicians is needed.

Rezoning of land areas to the benefit of those in the know. Tell me Mark Thompson was not given that inside information… likely by Costa and his connections.

This is a constant thing. We hear about few.

Tell me I am wrong…


I was not asking who police’s the police. That was not my point. Who ensures the politicians hold their integrity. That is my point.

See the politicisation of IBAC, ICAC & soon to be NACC :

https://www.ag.gov.au/integrity/national-anti-corruption-commission/what-corrupt-conduct

As for your sleaze bag claim about Costa .... low life, scraping the bottom of the barrel.

 

[Alite]

See the politicisation of IBAC, ICAC & soon to be NACC :

https://www.ag.gov.au/integrity/national-anti-corruption-commission/what-corrupt-conduct

As for your sleaze bag claim about Costa .... low life, scraping the bottom of the barrel.

Granted, Costa may not have been involved but that deal has all the hallmarks of a deal done in the Halls of Power at the expense of the previous landholder.

 

[Kwality]

Granted, Costa may not have been involved but that deal has all the hallmarks of a deal done in the Halls of Power at the expense of the previous landholder.

Lazy.

 

[Alite]

Lazy.

Agreed I was Lazy… but not in the way you in inferred. I should not have guessed names (Mea culpa) That was where I was Lazy.

I have looked at your hyperlink: there is a lot to it. It will take time for me to scratch the surface of the many branches of your government link. Are you a government employee? Straight question. Please be truthful in your answer to this question. Motivations matter.

While I take the time, the news is full of politicians, police, and people in power all seemingly losing the only concept that matters = fair treatment and no tyrants…. it is rampant in the news.

Fun fact: the King James Bible does not use the word Tyrant … why? the king thought… Oh, no… we don’t want that concept given to the masses... so he had the term Tyrant replaced in the Bible. Political power is horribly pervasive. Even the seemingly unchangeable is changed through power.

One source: Who's your Final Authority-Why did the KJV remove tyrant from our English Bibles?

Recently the Governor of Victoria: Linda Dessau (a position that is proposed by the Vic Government and then ratified by the monarch of England) will not use the influence of office to make the Victorian Office of Public Prosecutions do what they should: ensure the rule of law is followed.

Client attorney privilege be damned in the state of Victoria. The Halls of Power said no prosecutions would take place for what seems to me to be to be a blatant loss of legal process (which even the special counsel recommended charges should be brought) and yet there will be none.

I am fully aware that if Lawyer X’s information was ruled illegal that a lot of actual criminals would walk free from prison. I have no doubt that they were guilty but I also have no doubt that the system is more important than all of them Walking free. Besides, only a fool would say that each and every one of those criminals jobs was not filled within a week of them going to prison. Demand abhors a vacuum of supply. That demand will always be filled. But breaking the rule of law… not having the ability to talk honestly to your lawyer without the lawyer telling the police what you say… that is the bigger … and maybe the biggest issue.

But I also have the feeling that politicians said to the OPP that the public would not accept criminals getting out of jail due to police‘s illegal activity… so sweep it under the rug. The Vic Governor should have said “there is no carpet to sweep under”, illegal activity within the police destroys the value of the police (most people police themselves! This is a hard fact. But if we lose trust in the police, many of us will stop policing ourselves…. Again this is certain… at the extremes are riots … but it is all predictable). and charges … or at least discriminatory action... should happen... But Nope. The rule of law means nothing when the governor is a puppet.

Here is the kick-in-the-ass for my argument to have the AFP report to the GG. (Yes I am negating my own thread)
In Victoria the reporting structure through the Governor seems to have been ineffective. And so it probably would be ineffective at federal level. I concede that.

Again the “who watches the watchers” argument rears its ugly, but so rightly said, head. jim boy ‘s post was the most important question.

Who is untouchable? Who can be certain to have integrity? Maybe this should be the question. Currently it is King Charles. Can we do better?

Kwality, I’m just getting warmed up on politicians using their power to affect their, and their friends, personal wealth. It happens so often it is near criminal for a voter to not acknowledge it.

If you want to know about the power wielded in Australia on politicians that has happened … Read the book “Power without Glory” by Frank Hardy. He got close to saying what the Halls of Power never wanted said. Fortunately he was less lazy than me and won his “Criminal Liability” case. Yes, they wanted to put him in jail for his reported truths… but Wren fortunately lost (again because Frank was smarter than me).

My Lazy comment ”only” opened me up to being made bankrupt. Serious question: were you baiting me for a more liable answer? It seemed so. Whatever your motivation, I’ll be interested to read your reply.

All that said…

My point from the start is simple. Whenever possible, we should disseminate power. The Aternay General should not be in charge of the person who may investigate his possible own wrongdoings, or those of the person who can affect his job = the Prime Minister, or anyone else in parliament . The Federal Police should report to the only person who can sack the government = The Governeral General.

Surely that concept we can all agree on.

 

[Kwality]

Agreed I was Lazy… but not in the way you in inferred. I should not have guessed names (Mea culpa) That was where I was Lazy.

I have looked at your hyperlink: there is a lot to it. It will take time for me to scratch the surface of the many branches of your government link. Are you a government employee? Straight question. Please be truthful in your answer to this question. Motivations matter.

While I take the time, the news is full of politicians, police, and people in power all seemingly losing the only concept that matters = fair treatment and no tyrants…. it is rampant in the news.

Fun fact: the King James Bible does not use the word Tyrant … why? the king thought… Oh, no… we don’t want that concept given to the masses... so he had the term Tyrant replaced in the Bible. Political power is horribly pervasive. Even the seemingly unchangeable is changed through power.

One source: Who's your Final Authority-Why did the KJV remove tyrant from our English Bibles?

Recently the Governor of Victoria: Linda Dessau (a position that is proposed by the Vic Government and then ratified by the monarch of England) will not use the influence of office to make the Victorian Office of Public Prosecutions do what they should: ensure the rule of law is followed.

Client attorney privilege be damned in the state of Victoria. The Halls of Power said no prosecutions would take place for what seems to me to be to be a blatant loss of legal process (which even the special counsel recommended charges should be brought) and yet there will be none.

I am fully aware that if Lawyer X’s information was ruled illegal that a lot of actual criminals would walk free from prison. I have no doubt that they were guilty but I also have no doubt that the system is more important than all of them Walking free. Besides, only a fool would say that each and every one of those criminals jobs was not filled within a week of them going to prison. Demand abhors a vacuum of supply. That demand will always be filled. But breaking the rule of law… not having the ability to talk honestly to your lawyer without the lawyer telling the police what you say… that is the bigger … and maybe the biggest issue.

But I also have the feeling that politicians said to the OPP that the public would not accept criminals getting out of jail due to police‘s illegal activity… so sweep it under the rug. The Vic Governor should have said “there is no carpet to sweep under”, illegal activity within the police destroys the value of the police (most people police themselves! This is a hard fact. But if we lose trust in the police, many of us will stop policing ourselves…. Again this is certain… at the extremes are riots … but it is all predictable). and charges … or at least discriminatory action... should happen... But Nope. The rule of law means nothing when the governor is a puppet.

Here is the kick-in-the-ass for my argument to have the AFP report to the GG. (Yes I am negating my own thread)
In Victoria the reporting structure through the Governor seems to have been ineffective. And so it probably would be ineffective at federal level. I concede that.

Again the “who watches the watchers” argument rears its ugly, but so rightly said, head. jim boy ‘s post was the most important question.

Who is untouchable? Who can be certain to have integrity? Maybe this should be the question. Currently it is King Charles. Can we do better?

Kwality, I’m just getting warmed up on politicians using their power to affect their, and their friends, personal wealth. It happens so often it is near criminal for a voter to not acknowledge it.

If you want to know about the power wielded in Australia on politicians that has happened … Read the book “Power without Glory” by Frank Hardy. He got close to saying what the Halls of Power never wanted said. Fortunately he was less lazy than me and won his “Criminal Liability” case. Yes, they wanted to put him in jail for his reported truths… but Wren fortunately lost (again because Frank was smarter than me).

My Lazy comment ”only” opened me up to being made bankrupt. Serious question: were you baiting me for a more liable answer? It seemed so. Whatever your motivation, I’ll be interested to read your reply.

All that said…

My point from the start is simple. Whenever possible, we should disseminate power. The Aternay General should not be in charge of the person who may investigate his possible own wrongdoings, or those of the person who can affect his job = the Prime Minister, or anyone else in parliament . The Federal Police should report to the only person who can sack the government = The Governeral General.

Surely that concept we can all agree on.

You can & do read into my comment whatever you will.

You chose to sling off at a dead man. Perhaps cheap is a more appropriate descriptor. There are many who walked the halls of power at the time you refer to, who are 'alive & kicking'.

Am I a government employee you ask. No & never have been (fwiw).

 

[spinynorman]

True, but the coziness referred to in the OP is still a huge issue.

Look at the PWC saga.

PWC have done extremely dodgy things. PWC is referred to AFP. Whose books are done by PWC. What could possibly go wrong?

Robocop was a pretty cool movie, at least.