Roast Port Adelaide's failure to do a HIA assessment on Aliir - [AFL confirms both players FAILED concussion tests on Monday]

[Mr_Moogle]

This isnt on Port.. Port are simply gaming the system to their advantage.. and the AFL have let them get away with it in the recent past.

This is all on the AFL for allowing Port to game the system as the system the AFL has put in place is easily gamed..

Another fine example of just how poorly run this shitful excuse for a national sporting league is.. it deserves to be sued into oblivion.

It is on Port though. Other teams could game the system the same way and they don't. I agree that the AFL should share the blame though.

 

[Purple Suit]

Not being off the ground for 20 minutes is not what you initially said. You said he did not take an HIA test. The AFL says he did. As for the 20 minutes, yeah, he was off less than that.

He can’t have taken the test if he was only off the ground for six minutes.

 

[Crow till I die]

You can just imagine the joy on the faces of the lawyers currently involved in the action against the AFL for past players if the AFL let Port off lightly or try and claim “nothing to see here”…

They’ll be able to show this footage in court and use it as evidence that even right now the AFL dont take head injuries seriously.. let alone in the past..

This incident on the weekend is a massive litmus test for the AFL right here..

Do they;

1) come down on Port like a ton of bricks..

Or

2) do they try and cover it up.. claim there’s nothing to see here and brush it all under the rug..

This isnt on Port.. Port are simply gaming the system to their advantage.. and the AFL have let them get away with it in the recent past.

This is all on the AFL for allowing Port to game the system as the system the AFL has put in place is easily gamed..

Another fine example of just how poorly run this shitful excuse for a national sporting league is.. it deserves to be sued into oblivion.

But the AFL have specific HIA rules in place to be used and if that SCAT5 test was not undertaken and it was a requirement for it to have been - Port are absolutely at fault. The doctor works on behalf of Port and they sent him back out without the test. They needed Alir out there and he was sent back out.

If that SCAT 5 test was mandatory and was ignored, port have nowhere to hide and should be sanctioned accordingly

 

[Toump Ass]

This isnt on Port..

Bullshit.

Of course it is.

 

[DesertRoo]

Pondering the possibility the Power lose premiership points as punishment?

Minimum 4, realistically I’d take 8 or 12 so no club ever thinks about doing it against

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

Pondering the possibility the Power lose premiership points as punishment?

Not possible. Port Adelaide have acted in accordance with existing rules set by the AFL. Like many other people, I was stunned to see the player back on the field so soon after a serious head clash. The AFL needs to stand up now, they been so hot on wanting to suspend anyone who lays a tackle resulting in a head clash, and yet their rules in this regard appear sloppy at best, inadequate at worst. So, what's it to be AFL, are you serious about this issue, or not?

 

[ClintEastwood]

He can’t have taken the test if he was only off the ground for six minutes.

You failed to quote this part of the guidelines.

"The guidelines also dictate that immediately, or as soon as possible, after a player suffers a concussion, or is suspected of suffering from one, they must be subjected to a medical assessment after which they may or may not be allowed to return to the field depending on the results."

The doctor determined that Aliir had not suffered concussion, so he's not subject to any 20 minutes.

The more pertinent point is that at this point, these are guidelines, not rules. My original contention was that Port can not be hit with ad-hoc sanctions, as they have not broken any rules.

 

[BigTacoBandit]

Am confused about the guidelines.

Does a HIA (video review) necessitate the 15 minutes off the ground?

The AFL instructions are so vague here I can see Port getting away with this, but the rules tightening significantly.

My reading of the guidelines is that a HIA is used to identify a concussion, usually if its not obvious and has been picked by AFL concussion spotters and reported to the team. My reading is that a HIA shouldn't have been done in this case as the concussion was so obvious it should have gone straight to a SCAT5.


The guidelines then state a player shall be removed from the game if ANY of certain symptoms were observed. I think we all saw Allir lose consciousness and not protect his fall ( criteria 1 and 2). He even meets part b by lying motionless for 2 seconds.

He then MUST be removed for 15 minutes to do an assessment and this obviously did not happen.

 

[Purple Suit]

You failed to quote this part of the guidelines.

"The guidelines also dictate that immediately, or as soon as possible, after a player suffers a concussion, or is suspected of suffering from one, they must be subjected to a medical assessment after which they may or may not be allowed to return to the field depending on the results."

The doctor determined that Aliir had not suffered concussion, so he's not subject to any 20 minutes.

The more pertinent point is that at this point, these are guidelines, not rules. My original contention was that Port can not be hit with ad-hoc sanctions, as they have not broken any rules.

In what planet is a knocked out person not suspected of suffering a concussion? That doctor has broken his oath and should face medical board ramifications over AFL ones.

The AFL can do anything they want as they have catch all rules of disrepute etc so Port are well and truly in the gun. It will be interesting how it pans out with all of the focus on the issue and the way the AFL usually prefer to sweep things under the rug.

 

[Jimi]

My reading of the guidelines is that a HIA is used to identify a concussion, usually if its not obvious and has been picked by AFL concussion spotters and reported to the team. My reading is that a HIA shouldn't have been done in this case as the concussion was so obvious it should have gone straight to a SCAT5.

View attachment 1760749
The guidelines then state a player shall be removed from the game if ANY of certain symptoms were observed. I think we all saw Allir lose consciousness and not protect his fall ( criteria 1 and 2). He even meets part b by lying motionless for 2 seconds.

He then MUST be removed for 15 minutes to do an assessment and this obviously did not happen.

View attachment 1760750

So at the very least Allir has displayed at least 2 of the criteria for necessitating a SCATS test as he didn't seem to protect his fall and was motionless for 2 seconds.

So either the doctor is in big trouble, or the club. Question is how hard the AFL comes down on them.

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

With the AFLs lettuce leaf statement from yesterday, nothing is going to happen with this clearly

Best to move on

 

[Jbudds]

You failed to quote this part of the guidelines.

"The guidelines also dictate that immediately, or as soon as possible, after a player suffers a concussion, or is suspected of suffering from one, they must be subjected to a medical assessment after which they may or may not be allowed to return to the field depending on the results."

The doctor determined that Aliir had not suffered concussion, so he's not subject to any 20 minutes.

The more pertinent point is that at this point, these are guidelines, not rules. My original contention was that Port can not be hit with ad-hoc sanctions, as they have not broken any rules.

Exactly, the AFL needs to step in to stop Port from doing the wrong thing.

 

[Rory Walkerfield]

You have to wonder, would the players be happy with the decisions being made here?

Putting trying to win at the expense of player welfare?

 

[Maddogmetro]

Surely this now is the catalyst for these decisions to be made by an independent doctor in the future. No connection to any of the clubs playing, purely independent and focussed on player welfare, without the conflict.

Should have been this way for a long time already,

 

[BigTacoBandit]

So at the very least Allir has displayed at least 2 of the criteria for necessitating a SCATS test as he didn't seem to protect his fall and was motionless for 2 seconds.

So either the doctor is in big trouble, or the club. Question is how hard the AFL comes down on them.

That would be my understanding.

I think we can all agree that Allir was concussed and should have had a "clear diagnosis of concussion" and thus, under the guidelines, been removed from play and not allowed to return.

At the very least, he should have been "removed" from the play under section (b) and not been able to return for at least 15 minutes.

Knowing the AFL though, they will say everything was handled appropriately and no punishment but Port will have a new doctor this week.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

In what planet is a knocked out person not suspected of suffering a concussion? That doctor has broken his oath and should face medical board ramifications over AFL ones.

The AFL can do anything they want as they have catch all rules of disrepute etc so Port are well and truly in the gun. It will be interesting how it pans out with all of the focus on the issue and the way the AFL usually prefer to sweep things under the rug.

Doctor on MMM this morning mentioned that a player knocked out is nearly always concussed.... but the symptoms may not be obvious when the player wakes up.

Given both players appeared to have blacked out for a short while, I don't see how the Port doctor could have assumed that Aliir Aliir fell into the very small minority of players who was not likely concussed.

Just have to go through the full HIA assessment as a duty of care with 20 minute break in these circumstances... rather than bringing the player back on in 6 minutes.

 

[Rory Walkerfield]

That would be my understanding.

I think we can all agree that Allir was concussed and should have had a "clear diagnosis of concussion" and thus, under the guidelines, been removed from play and not allowed to return.

At the very least, he should have been "removed" from the play under section (b) and not been able to return for at least 15 minutes.

Knowing the AFL though, they will say everything was handled appropriately and no punishment but Port will have a new doctor this week.

Aliir was clearly knocked out. By definition he had concussion.

 

[Purple Suit]

Doctor on MMM this morning mentioned that a player knocked out is nearly always concussed.... but the symptoms may not be obvious when the player wakes up.

Given both players appeared to have blacked out for a short while, I don't see how the Port doctor could have assumed that Aliir Aliir fell into the very small minority of players who was not likely concussed.

Just have to go through the full HIA assessment as a duty of care with 20 minute break in these circumstances... rather than bringing the player back on in 6 minutes.

At minimum, they need to just have players ruled out for the game and the following week if they lose consciousness. No more grey area.

It's a terrible look for the game and these things filter down to junior footy where volunteer medics are already put under pressure to let kids with head knocks go back onto the ground. AFL players can go out after getting knocked out, why can't this kid keep playing who hasn't even passed out?

 

[BigTacoBandit]

Aliir was clearly knocked out. By definition he had concussion.

And yet the most important person in the arena (the Port doctor) disagreed.

The ARC concussion spotters should have overruled the doctor.

 

[DesertRoo]

Lol at the afl for suspending players for accidents, based on outcomes rather then actions and sitting on their hands for this..

 

[bungalow_bill]

So at the very least Allir has displayed at least 2 of the criteria for necessitating a SCATS test as he didn't seem to protect his fall and was motionless for 2 seconds.

So either the doctor is in big trouble, or the club. Question is how hard the AFL comes down on them.

Allir needs an independent check up. If he has concussion the doc is either incompetent or corrupt

 

[Better Loosen Up]

View attachment 1759643View attachment 1759644View attachment 1759645View attachment 1759646View attachment 1759648View attachment 1759649

Ummm what?

Check out the Adelaide bloke smiling on the bench in the background.

 

[Mitchell Madness]

Third time in a couple of seasons now the power have failed in their duty of care for their players.

First time. Ok, maybe an oversight, second time was ugly, and now this time... a fine won't do. I actually want port to win the flag, but I'd be suggesting a "brininging the game into disrepute" sanction and a loss of points

 

[Go the Guts]

Bullshit.

Of course it is.

Exactly.

Aliir Aliir should miss Port game against Geelong after head knock, neurological expert Dr Alan Pearce says

"The AFL is considering penalties for Port Adelaide over its handling of the head knock and is investigating, while ex-Port Adelaide star Jay Schulz said the footage and return of Aliir made him “feel sick”.

Aliir remained on the bench for five or so minutes and returned to the field without an HIA after being assessed by the club doctor, coach Ken Hinkley said.

“Given that he showed clear signs of concussion on the field, so when he clashed heads, if you saw the vision here, he fell with what we call no protective action,’’ Dr Pearce said.

“He didn’t try and put his arms out to protect himself. He just fell like a ragdoll."

“If the club and the AFL say that player health and wellbeing is their highest priority, then here’s an opportunity to prove it,’’ he said.

 

[ClintEastwood]

Aliir remained on the bench for five or so minutes and returned to the field without an HIA after being assessed by the club doctor, coach Ken Hinkley said.

The AFL release says differently...

"Aliir and Jones had a heavy collision which resulted in both players undertaking head injury assessments (HIA)..."