Nobody has the ability to predict the future!!!
mate
the futures bright, the futures blue and white
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AFLW 2024 - Round 9 - Indigenous Round - Chat, game threads, injury lists, team lineups and more.
Nobody has the ability to predict the future!!!
Port should certainly get help, but their situation with the SANFL makes it an entirely different kettle of fish. AFL assistance shouldnt be made available to cover shortfalls caused by overspending on a 2nd tier league.
The honest truth is that IMO freo should be far worse off than Port and it is inconceivable that they are financially stronger than Port.
12 years ago, in our first year, you could go to the game, take 30-45 minutes getting home because of traffic, have something to eat and THEN start watching the delayed telecast on Channel 7. Now we had almost all our home games live on Fox with a couple live on FTA as well which people can watch on their big cheap Plasma/LCD (again, not many of those in 97) in HD. Absolutely completely different situation. Whats changed at Footy Park since that time? Bucket Seats (moving into the 70s) and video screens (again, 10-15 years later than other grounds). Great stuff.
The game day experience for supporters is completely different to what it was in 1997. The SANFL needs to change with the times as well. Its not blaming anyone else...this is Ports problem to deal with.
When you hear that with similar average crowd figures, the WA clubs make upwards of $2M and Brisbane $3M on home games, and Port end up having to PAY the SANFL up to $400k a game in some cases, then things obviously arent right and the SANFL should look into it.
The SACA can get a non SA club to play ahome game there. There was an embargo on AFL footy there, but it has been lifted. So they could, and after development will, offer clubs like North/Melbourne/Bulldogs etc games at Adelaide Oval. North Melbourne (home) V Port at Adelaide could happen. That would be a true test to crowd size. I for one dont think Adelaide Oval would be a good venue on a cold wet Saturday night...
Taken over all in the past years I think you will find that Freo have a far bigger supporter base than Port.It has been a very long time since Freo only had 19,000 at a game at Subi.That is a constant number that seems to be at Port games.The crowds between Freo and Port are nowhere near the same.As Haysman said in his conference today, Freo make around $2m on their stadium deal with similar crowd figures to what Port get. Port end up having to pay the SANFL.
If anything is inconceivable...id say that is.
They should get the same support you do. There is no valid reason why they should not.
I actually agree with this. Why should the AFL give Port money so that the SANFL can continue to rip off Port and give the money to clubs like South Adelaide and Woodville-West Torrens?
That is my point. They don't get enough people to games. End of story. That is the issue, you can blame it on poor stadium returns all you want, but if they got more people to the games, it wouldn't be an issue.Crows get far more people on average to the games, from what I am lead to believe AAMI has a very high break even mark, like TD, although it is not high because of third party profiteering but because it is not clean and SANFL take a fair chunk out of the revenue. Crows have a waiting list for members, games only don't reach capacity because the Category A port supporters who have access to all games don't show up, they are however, paid for. Port's problem is the gap in terms of supporters is pretty much the profit margin zone for the clubs playing there.
Adelaide Oval is about the right size and has much lower overheads, SACA were offering us $500k per game to play there 5 years ago, I would imagine that has risen since then, WAFL offered us about a million per game at Subi. Port would make a lot more money there than they would at AAMI, largely because SACA wouldn't be skimming anywhere near as much as SANFL does.
It is the difference between playing somewhere where a lot of the profit goes back to the club and one where it does not. I don't know if Crows have the exact same deal at AAMI or not.
The payments to the SANFL is their way of supporting the local league (as you have said below). In WA we do it through renting Subiaco and through dividend payments of profits to the WAFL. This is their way. In Victoria, none of the teams pay for the VFL and its related entities, however the AFL gives money on their behalf. It is a different way of structuring the same deal. As I have said a few times, there is no doubt some fat needs to be cut off the SANFL going forward, but why should Port pay for this?? You get money because of your crappy deals, why doesn't Port deserve the same??I dunno. If our shareholders were expecting a $2m dividend every year and it was the reason we asked for assitance I think the AFL would have told us to get stuffed.
I'd prefer we weren't receiving assistance and had somewhere to play that gave us a decent return. But, the AFL wouldn't let us play at Arden Street even if it was significantly more attractive. AFL wouldn't stop Port from playing anywhere. SANFL wont let them because they are milking them from AAMI as well as the dividend. Port just needs to make sure SANFL is more flexible in tough times and that they help Port help themselves by helping them to grow support, they are the beneficiaries of Port doing well.
I don't get what the contribution from Victoria has to do with anything. No shit it is significant. About 50% of players last I saw. So? I don't think I said anything to the contrary.AFL contributes some $6m a year to AFL Victoria and contributes some money to VFL but they do not to SANFL or WAFL. They do to the other leagues. It is largely due to the affiliation agreement. In 2007 (dont have the 2008 report), 104 players came from the Victorian system onto club lists, given there are only 800 odd positions on club lists the contribution from Victoria on an annual basis is significant.
AFL would love nothing more than to absorb the SANFL and WAFL but they don't want that. AFL's relationship with those two states exists in the form of the four teams, nothing more, nothing less. Your states are a significant part of the league but by your league's own desires you are still very different entities despite the government appointing the AFL as custodians of the game.
I am not saying the AFL wont help Port, they already help Port, but I think it is more an issue that Port and the SANFL need to resolve and I feel the SANFL need to be more pro-active to assist Port to become a strong club because they have a vested interest in them being strong.
North just has a 25 year prison term until TD is paid off, with 14 odd years left. I think once it goes into AFL hands there would be a significant higher return from games there, we just need to keep growing our supporter base and do what we need to do in order to live through TD as a third party. I think if we can do that and raise our sustainable membership base to around 40k then we will be right. We are a significant part of the group of clubs repaying a $500m stadium AND allowing a third party to make a reasonable profit on it, it is a significant drain on a club like ours.
I don't see asny difference.Your mob was as bad as and are still as bad as Port.Your members have let you down for many years now.You still have your hand out to the AFL asking for money.How about if you had to build your own stadium or pay your own way!!!!!
Taken over all in the past years I think you will find that Freo have a far bigger supporter base than Port.It has been a very long time since Freo only had 19,000 at a game at Subi.That is a constant number that seems to be at Port games.The crowds between Freo and Port are nowhere near the same.
To be fair, our stadium is pretty bloody old, is all paid for and we rent it straight up from the WAFC. Also, our stadium is sold out every week. Every single week. In fact, I believe we make more money when we get a lower crowd as the returns from the catering and all is set. How much money would you make if you sold out every week?? All our games are live on TV against the gate too, as they are all sold out. This is one of the reasons the WAFC is not so keen on a new stadium, they are scared they won't make us much money from a half-full stadium where they are paying market rates. Good for the club, bad for the fans.When you hear that with similar average crowd figures, the WA clubs make upwards of $2M and Brisbane $3M on home games, and Port end up having to PAY the SANFL up to $400k a game in some cases, then things obviously arent right and the SANFL should look into it.
Then the whole arrangement of the AFL not supporting the SANFL would need to be changed to align it with the AFL supporting the other state leagues. Either way, more money is going from the AFL to SA.IF you cant understand the difference by now its pointless to keep explaining it to you. Why dont Port sell some home games to Collingwood at the MCG, or Freo at Subi for 700k a pop first? We had to. Going by your argument if it was good enough for us, its good enough for them.. right?
When the OWNERS of your licence, are the ones causing you to lose money, why should the league who sold the licence to said owner bail out the sub licencee?
The AFL going through the books and going 50/50 in any such assistance with the SANFL seems more reasonable.
No the assistance scheme is almost a decade old. It's just that's its changed it's name a few times and the current name is 2 or 3 years old. And as of 2007, 9 clubs were getting a special assistance distribution.
From page 92 of the 2007 AFL annual report you can find on their website.
A total of $6.3 million was paid from the AFL’s Annual Special Distribution fund to the;
Western Bulldogs ($1.7 million),
the Kangaroos Football Club ($1.4 million),
Melbourne Football Club ($1 million),
Sydney Swans Football Club ($0.7 million),
Richmond Football Club ($0.4 million),
Hawthorn Football Club ($0.25 million), and
Port Adelaide Football Club ($0.25 million),
with $0.6 million paid to Telstra Dome to assist clubs playing at this venue.
[ie add Carlton and St Kilda to that list]
Shouldn't make any difference nowdays.No club is really affiliated to any particular area.Look at Freo we have our training gorund in Freo,but have players from all over the country.Same as every other club.
Your view is that of a Victorian who still thinks it is the VFL.
Heres an easy way to explain it for simpletons.
(example)
North are still owned by Shareholders, they operate at about a 1million dollar loss per year.
Shareholders take a 2million dividend despite loss.
AFL provide 3 million dollars assistance, 2 million into Shareholders back pockets, and 1 million to keep North afloat.
Then the whole arrangement of the AFL not supporting the SANFL would need to be changed to align it with the AFL supporting the other state leagues. Either way, more money is going from the AFL to SA.
North shareholders did not take a dividend from the club!
That is not a complete example but.Heres an easy way to explain it for simpletons.
(example)
North are still owned by Shareholders, they operate at about a 1million dollar loss per year.
Shareholders take a 2million dividend despite loss.
AFL provide 3 million dollars assistance, 2 million into Shareholders back pockets, and 1 million to keep North afloat.
As Haysman said in his conference today, Freo make around $2m on their stadium deal with similar crowd figures to what Port get. Port end up having to pay the SANFL.
If anything is inconceivable...id say that is.
I don't see asny difference.Your mob was as bad as and are still as bad as Port.Your members have let you down for many years now.You still have your hand out to the AFL asking for money.How about if you had to build your own stadium or pay your own way!!!!!
I can't believe of all the people on here arguing Port should NOT be getting assistance, it is primarily a North supporter and a Melbourne supporter. How ironic is that?
I have a big HD LCD, delays, FTA, Foxtel, never stopped me from going.
the SANFL will look into it, but they shouldn't. Port should stand on it's own two feet and fix it's own problems rather than expecting the SANFL to fix it for them. Then what happens in 7 years time, now instead of 27,000 to break even, you need 22,000. Now, you don't seem to be hitting that either, what next? whine to the SANFL again? ask the AFL if you can play at Alberton? You become a handout club, you will stay a handout club.
People need to be held responsible for this, however in the meantime the AFL should still help them.
It has been a very long time since Freo only had 19,000 at a game at Subi.That is a constant number that seems to be at Port games.The crowds between Freo and Port are nowhere near the same.