Training Preseason 22-23

[Bulldogs85]

 

[Bulldogs85]

 

[Bulldogs85]

 

[NBates]

 

[Golden_6]

Without seeing any of training, it seems like Daniel has been a reasonably permanent fixture in the midfield during the pre-season. Hopefully that means he’s pegged for a high HFF/midfield role during the season. We’re stretched a little for depth in the guts after losing Dunkley with Treloar and to a lesser extent Baz under injury clouds.

Hopefully this means we’re running a very different defensive structure with 3 KPD, 1 hybrid (Khamis, Cleary, Crozier etc.) along with Dale, Richards & Duryea.

 

[Dogs54]

You only have to look at other sports to understand why you shouldn't give your direct opponent a head start.
Our game is unique and no other sport that I can think of has a "manning the mark" rule that our game has had for over a century.
With the "stand rule" coming into affect, obviously the attacking team doesn't have to kick over the man on the mark, and territory becomes their best friend. In the past, the 'man on the mark' was able to shift across to guard that territory if the attacking player moved off his line. This limited the attacking player's space.

The rules committee identified our game would improve if the attacking team was given the luxury to run into open space, so teams need to adapt to that. It seems like we have adapted best and this is only from a logical point of view.

Sports like Basketball and Soccer prepare for the attacking team having space to work with by using some sort of zone. I.e. They're not right up in the attacker's face unless they are confident of a turnover. They 'guard' space by being a few metres in front of the attacker. The way this new rule has come into effect is no different to that. Being 'up close' on the mark leaves you very vulnerable to the opposition accelerating past you with momentum. By the time the umpire calls 'play on', the attacking team is already level with the defender and already moving at pace. It's hard for the defender to combat that if they're right on the mark. Positioning yourself five metres behind the mark creates an opportunity to restrict the attacking team's movement.

Quite simply really. Science and logic. It's a refreshing change for this forum, hey?

Thanks for the response.

I'm from a basketball background as a player for 20 years and a coach for 15 years. You force turnovers by pressuring the ball, it is suicide to stand off your player by a few metres as you say.

My question is if we apply this tactic by standing off the mark I haven't seen the benefit in our playing style if anything we look like witches hats. Therefore can you explain the practical benefits that the team had with this tactic in our 2022 games. Not the theory the actual practice.

I agree with you regarding the science and logic and yes it would be a refreshing change. We can only hope.

 

[ScragCity]

Just give us the damn flag already. This is ridiculous. Libba looks like he's in the best shape of his life. Even Lachie McNeil looks ripped.

 

[doggies ftw]

The outside 5 hate is silly.

If you back off the mark you're cutting off the 15-25m kick that could open the field for the opposition. Because you cut off those angles you're bating the opposition to kick long to a contest where ideally you would be set up to intercept. You also cut off the over-the-top handball receive that would otherwise be available if you were stuck on the mark. The other key factor to consider here is that it delays the opposition ability to transition from thier D50 to F50 which allows you to flood numbers back.

Our issues defensively last year were not because we backed off the mark. We only had 1 tall defender (Gardnier) performing well at AFL level. The team didn't work back hard enough to get back on defense. Go watch any of our 2021 games and compare to 2022. You'll see a stark difference between how hard we worked in our transition defense.

The outside 5 hate is silly.

If you back off the mark you're cutting off the 15-25m kick that could open the field for the opposition. Because you cut off those angles you're bating the opposition to kick long to a contest where ideally you would be set up to intercept. You also cut off the over-the-top handball receive that would otherwise be available if you were stuck on the mark. The other key factor to consider here is that it delays the opposition ability to transition from thier D50 to F50 which allows you to flood numbers back.

Our issues defensively last year were not because we backed off the mark. We only had 1 tall defender (Gardnier) performing well at AFL level. The team didn't work back hard enough to get back on defense. Go watch any of our 2021 games and compare to 2022. You'll see a stark difference between how hard we worked in our transition defense.

I completely understand the theory behind why we do it but it was quite obvious that it was uneffective the way we used it and you cannot argue with that. Maybe that’s just how we implemented it and maybe we can train to use it more effectively, but as it stands it seriously hampered us all season.

It’s all well and good to cut off the angles but we did not do this, instead we just stood practically how we would on the mark but 5-10m back allowing a simple unpressured mark, look at the amount of uncontested marks we allowed in transition last year.

If we stood back and cut off the corridor sure makes sense in theory but even when we were up against the boundary we’d still move back 10m and stand on the boundary with literally zero affect.

I disagree it delays the opposition time to transition, actually it did the complete opposite. Manning the mark means you hold up the player in possession and force them to backtrack behind the mark before kicking down the line and allowing our defence time to set up. We had the comical situation play out where our players would literally run past the man in possession, with their backs to them, to get outside 5 - allowing the opposition to take possession and immediately move the ball forward under zero pressure.

This is why our mids/defence had trouble getting back in time to help (something which has never been an issue for us) we took away the time they need to get back. 2-3 secs the opposition needs to get back behind the mark can be the difference in uncontested marks or our defence cutting it off.

There’s also the fact that our defence plays notoriously high in front of their opposition. I can understand if we set up deep like Melbourne or Collingwood and held position then sure allowing them some space to entice them to kick long is fine. But when your defence takes front position and pushes high, allowing them extra space and time just gives them a free shot at getting it in long over the back of our defence = easy shot at goal.

With the way our defence sets up you need to pressure the ball carrier and cause turnovers that we can chop off. Not take all pressure off the kicker.

So I disagree, I think it had a huge effect on our overall defence (which yes is poor as is and doesn’t need to be hampered further) and the stats back this up - I think it’s be foolish to suggest the whole difference here was just a fit Keath.

As others have pointed out it’s also instilling a pressure free mentality in our players which bled into other parts of our game.

There’s a reason why all the best teams of last season did the complete opposite and aggressively pushed the line & stole every meter they could get, always in the face of the opposition with relentless pressure. It’s a mindset - giving your opponent 60m out an extra 10m to get it in deep or an open look at goal is categorically not the right one

 

[Golden_6]

Correct me if I’m wrong but I’m almost certain we used the 5m technique pretty regularly in 2021?

 

[True Dog]

Without seeing any of training, it seems like Daniel has been a reasonably permanent fixture in the midfield during the pre-season. Hopefully that means he’s pegged for a high HFF/midfield role during the season. We’re stretched a little for depth in the guts after losing Dunkley with Treloar and to a lesser extent Baz under injury clouds.

Hopefully this means we’re running a very different defensive structure with 3 KPD, 1 hybrid (Khamis, Cleary, Crozier etc.) along with Dale, Richards & Duryea.

I can only speak about today and granted I only watched 2 quarters of the hitout and the pre-game training and CD was in the middle for the Blue team and was lining up on Libba and was very creative as you would expect. I hope this means he plays more up the ground because I feel that's where he can do the most damage. He's another that has slimmed down considerably this season as well.

 

[Bald]

Correct me if I’m wrong but I’m almost certain we used the 5m technique pretty regularly in 2021?

I honestly can't remember it being much of a feature, certainly felt like we did it more last year but that may be because we weren't winning as often and it was more noticeable.

 

[doggies ftw]

You only have to look at other sports to understand why you shouldn't give your direct opponent a head start.
Our game is unique and no other sport that I can think of has a "manning the mark" rule that our game has had for over a century.
With the "stand rule" coming into affect, obviously the attacking team doesn't have to kick over the man on the mark, and territory becomes their best friend. In the past, the 'man on the mark' was able to shift across to guard that territory if the attacking player moved off his line. This limited the attacking player's space.

The rules committee identified our game would improve if the attacking team was given the luxury to run into open space, so teams need to adapt to that. It seems like we have adapted best and this is only from a logical point of view.

Sports like Basketball and Soccer prepare for the attacking team having space to work with by using some sort of zone. I.e. They're not right up in the attacker's face unless they are confident of a turnover. They 'guard' space by being a few metres in front of the attacker. The way this new rule has come into effect is no different to that. Being 'up close' on the mark leaves you very vulnerable to the opposition accelerating past you with momentum. By the time the umpire calls 'play on', the attacking team is already level with the defender and already moving at pace. It's hard for the defender to combat that if they're right on the mark. Positioning yourself five metres behind the mark creates an opportunity to restrict the attacking team's movement.

Quite simply really. Science and logic. It's a refreshing change for this forum, hey?

You quote ‘Science and logic’ but can’t see the difference between defending a soccer pitch/basketball ground and a football oval with completely different rules such as you know, marks? Bit different defending players who don’t get a ‘free kick’ for catching the ball id have thought.

I just really don’t see any logic to suggest we adapted best when we went from a top 6 team in defending scores from transition to outright dead last

 

[doggies ftw]

Sounds like Darcy has fitted in seamlessly again back from injury, will be huge for our defence if he becomes a genuine option early in the season. Pressure on spots is very good.

Sucks for Adzy, pretty worrying preseason now but I guess if there’s anyone fit enough to deal with lack of preparation it’s probably him, he’s managed it his whole career I’m sure he’ll be fit and firing when he needs to be.

One interesting thing to note from preseason reports it sounds like Lobb hasn’t really done a huge amount of rucking, doesn’t join in with ruck groups etc and Naughty still taking forward ruck contests in match sim. I like that we’re still using Naughty, in the forward ruck contests his strength is a huge positive and he looked so dangerous there at times this year so I’d like us to make it a weapon like Geelong have with Hawkins. Lobb can chop out in the middle where it’s more height & reach than strength, and as we know Timmy rucks large minutes anyway and can sit a kick behind the ball whilst Naughty rucks inside 50.

 

[Dazb86]

I honestly can't remember it being much of a feature, certainly felt like we did it more last year but that may be because we weren't winning as often and it was more noticeable.

The umpires also yelled outside 5 this year which used to infuriate me when we were losing

I doubt we did it in 2021. You were able to move laterally off the mark.

I'm not completely against the back off 5m. But it has to be situational. Was so sick of watching teams just pick through our defence last year with easy kicks.

 

[Norm De Guerre]

Just give us the damn flag already. This is ridiculous. Libba looks like he's in the best shape of his life. Even Lachie McNeil looks ripped.

Libba is in unbelievably good shape.

 

[ScragCity]

Libba is in unbelievably good shape.

View attachment 1590291

 

[True Dog]

A few pics from today, I know this sounds stupid to say this time of year but the boys appear to be in ripping shape. Keith, Bruce & Daniel have all leaned off and moving really good. I know it's been said several times already but seeing English live is mind blowing.

 

[True Dog]

 

[True Dog]

BTW this Sam Darcy kid goes alright haha.....

 

[True Dog]

Last ones I promise

 

[doggies ftw]

Darcy’s reach is ridiculous, he’s going to be unstoppable when he fills out - will not lose one on one with his athleticism, strength and reach package

 

[True Dog]

Darcy’s reach is ridiculous, he’s going to be unstoppable when he fills out - will not lose one on one with his athleticism, strength and reach package

And footy smarts....

 

[Norm De Guerre]

Putting aside the outside 5 discussion that I ignited.

Todays session was the first one that Ive been able to attend in a few years. Prepare yourself for a lot of really random thoughts. Including how I ended up spending a little too much time taking photos of all the aeroplanes flying across the ground taking people to more interesting places than Braybrook.

Speaking of which. The club, the council and whoever else was involved in funding the redevelopment have done an incredible job of transforming what was a very run down ground when I played schoolboy football on it in the 80's.

As for the scratch match itself, it was a pretty loose affair with players constantly switching positions. However this didn't mean that there was a lack of intensity on display.

I suspect that we will see a return of the handball centric game plan of the past. There were a number of drills that pitted two groups of 6 on 6 in a game that resemble British Bulldog. Where one team would attack and the other team would try and find a way through either by taking on a tackler or hand balling to a teammate.

It's pretty obvious that we are endeavouring to lift our fitness rating. The various drills that happened all over the ground were very short and sharp. The thing is that at the end of each drill instead of rotating to the other pocket for the next set. The players had to run the length of the ground and set up and immediately begin a new set. It was fascinating if somewhat tiring to watch.

I can't really speak to specific players as none really stood out given the numbers around the ball and the fact that not everybody was wearing their usual numbers. Other than to say they look fit as ****.

A few stream of conscience thoughts about what I saw on the ground.

JUH looks good to go and was very competitive when the ball hit the ground. I think he's truly ready.

I watched Lobb roll his ankle. He hobbled around for a bit, waved away any assistance and was then taken form the ground for what I presume was precautionary reasons.

Tim English is our number one ruck. He was jumping over Sweet at the centre bounces and was using his non dominant hand to keep Sweet away from the contest. Like JUH, he looks set to take the next step.

The Bont was doing Bont type things constantly spinning silk out of his arse like a 194cm spider.

Weightman spent a lot of time at centre bounces. Its an interesting move given how he plays more as a tall small rather than a traditional small. We at times played Naughton, Lobb and Darcy all wishing 20 metres of goal.

I reserve the right to take back what Ive said about McLean in recent weeks. He seems to have shaken off the leaden footedness that he was displaying last year. He's moving very nicely now and will come into my starting best 22. I was wrong.

I suspect that Libba Snr must've asked his son "do you even lift bro?" And Jnr took it to heart.

There wasn't a lot of scoring, but it wasn't really a match simulation in the truest sense of the word. I seems more like a workout with the players in constant motion.

It's going to be fascinating watching what the MC do with the plethora of tall on the list off they all remain healthy. I really liked the work of Gardner and TOB today.

Understandably Busslinger is a fair way off. He seemed to really be labouring when doing his laps with the other players in the rehab group. Later he was doing one out drills with one of the line coaches and clearly has some nice hands. His kicking reminds me a little of Naughtons. Not so much in style just in he seems to prefer to play with in himself and not bite off too much with his kicking. Like Aaron Naughton does at his best.

All in all. It was pretty good work out by the boys. I think we will go into the coming season with a reasonable degree of confidence.

The only real downside was the absence of Treloar and Smith. I have no idea what has happened to the latter. Perhaps I missed any news of his injuries.

/end ramblings.

Heres some pictures I took.

Touch me if you can...


Libba in his iconic lean back and send it mode.


In the land of the giants. This one amuses me no end.


The unicorn looked fit.


The Buss


TOB taking a strong contested mark.


The 194cm Spider.

 

[True Dog]

Putting aside the outside 5 discussion that I ignited.

Todays session was the first one that Ive been able to attend in a few years. Prepare yourself for a lot of really random thoughts. Including how I ended up spending a little too much time taking photos of all the aeroplanes flying across the ground taking people to more interesting places than Braybrook.

Speaking of which. The club, the council and whoever else was involved in funding the redevelopment have done an incredible job of transforming what was a very run down ground when I played schoolboy football on it in the 80's.

As for the scratch match itself, it was a pretty loose affair with players constantly switching positions. However this didn't mean that there was a lack of intensity on display.

I suspect that we will see a return of the handball centric game plan of the past. There were a number of drills that pitted two groups of 6 on 6 in a game that resemble British Bulldog. Where one team would attack and the other team would try and find a way through either by taking on a tackler or hand balling to a teammate.

It's pretty obvious that we are endeavouring to lift our fitness rating. The various drills that happened all over the ground were very short and sharp. The thing is that at the end of each drill instead of rotating to the other pocket for the next set. The players had to run the length of the ground and set up and immediately begin a new set. It was fascinating if somewhat tiring to watch.

I can't really speak to specific players as none really stood out given the numbers around the ball and the fact that not everybody was wearing their usual numbers. Other than to say they look fit as *.

A few stream of conscience thoughts about what I saw on the ground.

JUH looks good to go and was very competitive when the ball hit the ground. I think he's truly ready.

I watched Lobb roll his ankle. He hobbled around for a bit, waved away any assistance and was then taken form the ground for what I presume was precautionary reasons.

Tim English is our number one ruck. He was jumping over Sweet at the centre bounces and was using his non dominant hand to keep Sweet away from the contest. Like JUH, he looks set to take the next step.

The Bont was doing Bont type things constantly spinning silk out of his arse like a 194cm spider.

Weightman spent a lot of time at centre bounces. Its an interesting move given we at times played Naughton, Lobb and Darcy all wishing 20 metres of goal.

I reserve the right to take back what Ive said about McLean in recent weeks. He seems to have shaken off the leaden footedness that he was displaying last year. He's moving very nicely now and will come into my starting best 22. I was wrong.

I suspect that Libba Snr must've asked his son "do you even lift bro?" And Jnr took it to heart.

There wasn't a lot of scoring, but it wasn't really a match simulation in the truest sense of the word. I seems more like a workout with the players in constant motion.

It's going to be fascinating watching what the MC do with the plethora of tall on the list off they all remain healthy. I really liked the work of Gardner and TOB today.

Understandably Busslinger is a fair way off. He seemed to really be labouring when doing his laps with the other players in the rehab group. Later he was doing one out drills with one of the line coaches and clearly has some nice hands. His kicking reminds me a little of Naughtons. Not so much in style just in he seems to prefer to play with in himself and not bite off too much with his kicking. Like Aaron Naughton does at his best.

All in all. It was pretty good work out by the boys. I think we will go into the coming season with a reasonable degree of confidence.

The only real downside was the absence of Treloar and Smith. I have no idea what has happened to the latter. Perhaps I missed any news of his injuries.

/end ramblings.

You nailed it Norm. TOB also caught my attention however wasn't sure he or Gardy and Darcy when he was down there had much to contend with. It was pretty much Buku against the 3 of them haha.... With you on the ground as well, it's in perfect condition.

 

[Norm De Guerre]

You nailed it Norm. TOB also caught my attention however wasn't sure he or Gardy and Darcy when he was down there had much to contend with. It was pretty much Buku against the 3 of them haha.... With you on the ground as well, it's in perfect condition.

True that. Im not sure that scoring was a real priority today. IIRC there were only 5 goals kicked in total.

Fitness first. Scoring second seemed to be the point of todays showing.

Im not sure that they know what to do with Darcy just yet. He spent a lot of time playing forward and back. Its a nice problem to have.