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Priest Stabbed Live Stream in Sydney
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Other Islamic extremists on the Internet would be my guess.
BFew
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I wonder why, given what's alleged in the article below.
Accused Islamist terror teen ‘poisoned by monster’: social media radicalisation claim after Bishop Mar Mari, Wakeley stabbing
EXCLUSIVEBy ALEXI DEMETRIADI
NSW POLITICAL REPORTER
LIAM MENDES
and JOANNA PANAGOPOULOS
8:48PM APRIL 16, 2024
Community leaders and fellow young Muslims had grown increasingly concerned with the “extreme religious views” of the 16-year-old alleged to have stabbed an orthodox Assyrian bishop during a service in Sydney’s southwest, amid claims he had been radicalised online.
The teenager alleged to have stabbed Bishop Mar Mari Emmanuel and three others during a live-streamed service at Wakeley’s Christ the Good Shepherd Church on Monday remains in police custody.
The Australian understands concerns had grown among community members that the teenager had “spent too much time online”, particularly on radical content across social media unaligned to mainstream Islamic views.
NSW police on Tuesday deemed the attack terror-related – the first since 2017 – and launched a joint counter-terrorism team to lead the investigation.
An audio message that had begun to widely circulate among Muslim community WhatsApp groups identified the 16-year-old, with a male voice lamenting the incident and how the teenager’s mind had been “poisoned”.
“Sadly, sadly that (alleged attacker) prayed today (with us) … These kids have been poisoned by a monster who has the radical Daesh mentality,” the audio message said.
“This kid has been poisoned,” the audio message continued. “This kid, as soon as I saw (the videos), it’s him. Keep calm, keep patient, inshallah.”
Hundreds of people have descended on an Assyrian church in western Sydney were a bishop was reportedly…
ASIO director-general Mike Burgess said the attack “appeared to be religiously motivated” and NSW Premier Chris Minns wouldn’t rule out knife-law reform, especially given Saturday’s separate attack in Bondi.
At the time of publication, the 16-year-old had not been charged with any offence and authorities had not confirmed his identity, religion or alleged motive.
The teenager sustained “severe injuries” to a hand and lost a finger, although this occurred during the “commission of the crime”, rather than someone doing it to him.
Sources from within Sydney’s Muslim community told The Australian that the teenager’s identity had become known on Tuesday, with many alleging the boy’s “very hard” religious views “did not comply with mainstream Islam”.
A handful of popular Islamic centres around Greenacre had gone so far as to warn him to stay away, given he would not tone down his views and “extreme remarks” after directives from leaders and concerns raised by fellow young Muslims.
A compilation of speeches made by the Assyrian bishop stabbed in Wakeley.
A family friend of the teenager told The Australian, on condition of anonymity, that the boy’s parents were “in shock” following Monday’s stabbing.
The friend said the accused’s father, a taxi driver, was so stressed and shocked that he had been “losing consciousness” throughout the day.
The family – understood to be of Lebanese descent – appear to have hastily left the southwest Sydney home they have lived in for more than a decade.
“They’re very sorry, it was a complete shock, they’re very sad that it happened, they absolutely didn’t want this to happen,” the friend said, calling them “very good people” and “loving parents”.
“The family is extremely worried for their safety – they’re very concerned about what happened overnight.”
Neighbours said they seemed like a “nice, normal” family and that the father would go for a walk with his sons every night.
Another neighbour on Tuesday said the boy’s mother had travelled to Beirut last year because her brother was in hospital and later died.
“I’ve seen them (the boy’s family) around, they’re just a regular family,” another neighbour said.
Police returned to the street of the boy’s family home for the second time on Tuesday evening, conducting further doorknocks to obtain CCTV.
...'
At this point the million dollar question/s: did they report it and, if not, why not?
BFew
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And if they did, what happened to the reports?
BFew
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If the reports in the Australian are correct, did anyone even attempt to de-radicalise the 16yo accused of last night's incident?
Yes, you'd have to presume if it was reported that it would have resulted in him being at least known in this context, and police have said he wasn't. What is being described in the article sounds like exactly the sort of thing that would qualify for some sort of attention, especially when coupled with a history of knives (which you'd have to believe intelligence gathering services could locate if the media is aware of it now).
I tend towards the likelihood that it wasn't reported, just based on the fact that people often don't report things when it is for information purposes.
Good question.
This quote from the article, "A handful of popular Islamic centres around Greenacre had gone so far as to warn him to stay away, given he would not tone down his views and “extreme remarks” after directives from leaders and concerns raised by fellow young Muslims." implies that some people may have at least tried to have a conversation with him about it, but equally it doesn't sound to me as though anyone really engaged with him to try to address the issues, instead preferring to just tell him to cool it and then remove him from the community.
It infuriates me when people come out with this information after the fact, full of concerns and "we saw this coming". I just want to scream, "Well if it was so concerning to you, why didn't you DO something about it?" I understand these situations are difficult to navigate, but there is a responsibility, especially amongst community leaders (all community leaders; I don't just mean muslim community leaders), to properly address matters. Call police, speak to other community leaders, seek specialist advice about engaging with the person on the matter.
This is especially true when we are talking about someone so young. It stands to reason to me that if it is easier to radicalise someone when they are young due to their impressionability, it is also easier to de-radicalise them. At that age there are also a range of interventions that become much harder to implement with adults. I don't mean direct psychological or authority intervention, but looking for alternative social groups and outlets.
While I don't absolve him of responsibility for the alleged attack, for a 16 year old to have gotten to this level of extremism with so many concerning signs beforehand indicates major failures by those around him. What did his parents do? What did the school do? What did community and church leaders do?
Kurve
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This might go towards there being more to the story of what prompted this attack on the bishop and as part of the investigation, for now are keeping it quiet. It might appear that the video is already being shared among more extreme groups.
Good point. There is certainly more to this whole situation than is known at this stage.
Police here have been given extra powers for the next couple of weeks, which they didn't even countenance after the Bondi Junction attack, so it's pretty clear they are worried about ongoing tensions and matters escalating due to this attack.
This is satire right?Wow! I wonder how many knives have ever failed in a stabbing! And for this to happen in a church...
Small blades like flick knives and switch blades rarely have a big hilt on them, so when you go for a hard stab and hit a bone/mess up the angle your hand slides over the blade while you're holding on tight, ending up with severed fingers/a very deep hand cut.
If you look at swords/proper hunting knives they'll all have a large hilt for this reason. Flick blades in particular the locking mechanism is far from failsafe. It explains why he stopped after a few and looked at his hand.
Also why with knife murders they look for the murderers blood, or hand wounds on the accused, it's a regular occurrence
They most certainly do have those measures, have introduced more and more since 9/11. They missed this one, probably because it was a dumb kid and he couldn't do much damage. Knee jerk reactions to these things ends up with our civil liberties being unnecessary clamped down on
BFew
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Are you familiar with the below case?
Current - Undercover police fed an autistic 13yo fixation with ISIS then charged him with terror offences
'Thomas' is an NDIS recipient with an IQ of 71. He was actually targeted. Counter-terrorism police encouraged an autistic 13-year-old boy in his fixation on Islamic State in an undercover operation after his parents sought help from the authorities. The boy, given the pseudonym Thomas...
www.bigfooty.com
Yeh saw that, wouldn't surprise me if this kid wasn't great on the IQ scale either. I think the issue with that one was the AFP were aiding the extremism. Still, I wouldn't be going a full bump up of surveillance of kids who posts dumb shit, in the end he hasn't done much damage. Looked like the mob was on par with the stabbing in the end, I'd rather cop a flick knife in the belly than a pegged brick across the jaw tbhAre you familiar with the below case?
Current - Undercover police fed an autistic 13yo fixation with ISIS then charged him with terror offences
'Thomas' is an NDIS recipient with an IQ of 71. He was actually targeted. Counter-terrorism police encouraged an autistic 13-year-old boy in his fixation on Islamic State in an undercover operation after his parents sought help from the authorities. The boy, given the pseudonym Thomas...
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He was already an extremist whose parents contacted the police about their son being radicalised into Islamic extremism well before the AFP was on the case. That's a weird way to summarise what happened
Sorry I should have used “Grooming”
https://www.thesaturdaypaper.com.au.../06/afp-questioned-over-grooming-autistic-boy
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that’s amazing detail that The Australian newspaper were able to write and conclude in such a short time.
And straight away that article is leading people to blame the Muslim community for the actions of 1 person, because they should have reported him!!!!
How many crimes occur everyday that someone might have prevented if they had of reported someone to police???
Remember its an article from The Australian newspaper….
And straight away that article is leading people to blame the Muslim community for the actions of 1 person, because they should have reported him!!!!
How many crimes occur everyday that someone might have prevented if they had of reported someone to police???
Remember its an article from The Australian newspaper….
Dogs_R_Us
Space Traveller
Don’t worry, there are many groups, both in person and online, indoctrinating young kids, under our very noses. ASIO would be onto most of them. Islam is very quick to condemn anyone who even slightly defames their prophet. It’s a big no-no. Ask the people at Charlie Hebdo. The teacher in France who was beheaded in the street. Salman Rushdie who was the subject of a worldwide fatwa. It’s heresy punishable by death, with martyrdom the reward for the killer. It’s easy to see how impressionable teenagers get caught up in the excitement and fervour of religious extremism.
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rdhopkins2
Carpe Diem
99.9999% of Muslims are loving, law abiding people. A tiny minority are radical but their actions disgust the majority of Muslims.
The easily influenced will be influenced no matter their religion. We do need extremists to be called out though;no matter their credence, colour, race or socioeconomic status.
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Left is as dead as a door nail, all the actions on the right. Spirit of times.
I see these questions asked every time a major crime is allegedly committed - whether there were genuine signs someone was dangerous and whether it was reported. It was asked about Brendan Tarrant, although it turned out that people did report him even just based on the arguments he had online. It is still discussed about Martin Bryant amongst Tasmanians, because there were lots of people in the community who knew he was a dangerous raging lunatic long before the Port Arthur massacre. It was asked about Joel Cauchi as soon as the Bondi Junction massacre occurred.
In this case it is not about casting aspersions on the muslim community generally, but about questioning whether the mentioned people in the community who were aware of the concerning attitudes reported him or should have reported him, and those people in the community happen to be part of islamic community groups. Further, in a case where the matter appears to involve religious extremism it stands to reason that others who are part of the same religious group would be most likely to have been aware of these attitudes, which is what we see in the published information. However, in my comment on this issue I do also state community leaders generally (because he may have been part of other social groups), his school and his parents.
The reported attitudes and events also look extremely serious and beyond the grey area where you might umm and ahh about whether it's just a child spouting a bit of rubbish.
IMO it is particularly relevant to ask these questions with regards to a child. People are supposed to pay attention to children, they are supposed to be supervised, and adults in their life all have varying degrees of responsibility towards them. It is also particularly relevant to ask in the case of a child why people didn't attempt to intervene in other ways.
Of course many crimes could be prevented if people reported things, and most people don't. There are many reasons why people don't - laziness; concerned about the attention to themselves if they do; unsure if their judgement is right or justified; worrying about getting someone in trouble for no reason; the Australian culture that discourages "dobbing"; protecting someone. But in cases where things are extreme people should. It's something that people genuinely need to get into their heads about certain attitudes and behaviours.
Going back to Tarrant, people associated with Antifa who engaged with him online at times noted the extreme nature of his views and did report him to authorities. If they can do it, so can others.
I also say this as someone who has reported. A friend of mine's husband was a teacher, and over several occasions spent with them I felt there was something disturbing about things he was saying. I asked her a few questions and was even more concerned by some of the things she said. I not only reported, I fought the Department of Education and police to take me seriously and investigate, until I was eventually put in touch with a police officer who supported my concerns and took up the issue. To cut a long story short I was right about what was going on. I take a very personal issue with people who claim after the fact that they knew something wasn't right, because if your suspicion rose to the level that you will now say that you should have acted before the fact. If I can do it and cost myself a 20+ year friendship in the process then other people can as well. The only excuse for not doing so is if you fear for your own safety.
Kurve
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Also the Christchurch massacre. Although that happened in NZ, Tarrant was an Australian and the Australian government fully supported the designation of terrorism.
Kurve
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They're not hard to find. While it doesn't impact me, I've watched a few clips out of NSW of the more radical preachers sermonising with quite violent rhetoric and which might act as a trigger to the susceptible. They don't need to operate out of the big mosques and I'm sure they don't, they simply set up and go online.
My observations aren't limited to Islam, I rang the council and the cops one time when the bible bashers were yelling hellfire and damnation at people on the street and had them removed with accusations they were intimidating shoppers and frightening children.
Who needs to be monstered with that?
Impossible with religion and the text but I'd like to see some sort of rule for public speaking 'Say what you mean, mean what you say.' Then they can't wriggle out of accountability by falling back on the text.
