Proposal to include premierships dating back to 1870 gathering pace

[rapidfire7]

But that is still not the official AFL premiership chronology? The only records counted seem to be the 1897 VFL/ renamed AFL premierships?

 

[Seeds]

Dumb idea. Most of those "premierships" happened when the competition was entirely amateur.

Premierships should really only be counted from 1990 onwards, and even then I am not sure as the game was not really professional then either since a lot of players needed second jobs to make a living.

A premiership in 1934 where every player trained once a week and got drunk before the games is hardly worth the same as a modern professional premiership.

This

Collingwood, blues and bombers fans wont like this. But its true.

 

[ThatsjustDappa]

But that is still not the official AFL premiership chronology? The only records counted seem to be the 1897 VFL/ renamed AFL premierships?

Bit of a bet each way the AFL is, they go on about the birth of football, whereas it has nothing to do with the AFL, they just grabbed the sport from another competition that had been playing it for decades...

 

[fnerd]

Sure why not, anything to further celebrate Victorian teams (and by extension their supporters)inflated sense of self in the game can only be a good thing

 

[loki04]

Sure why not, anything to further celebrate Victorian teams (and by extension their supporters)inflated sense of self in the game can only be a good thing

If they did that then Port would have genuine reason to claim theirs as well.

 

[Dan26]

There is a very simple principle that can be applied to acknowledging premierships.

A club acknowledges premierships it has won across all leagues in which it has played.

A league acknowledges premierships won by clubs only in that particular league.

This comment essentially ends the thread.

Succinct, factual and tells you everything you need to know in two sentences.

It's not up to the AFL (which is the league that began 1897 known as the VFL at the time) to count premierships not won in that league. Next these fools will be claiming it is disrespectful for the Australian NBL to totally ignore the LA Lakers 17 NBA championships

 

[Satan]

Certain clubs would be pushing this , for bragging purposes and marketing purposes ,others not
Opens up a pandora box of worms . Do we start including player of colony to the Browmlow records?

 

[rapidfire7]

View attachment CATS PRESIDENT COLIN CARTER INTERVIEW - Footyology with Rohan Connolly & Mark Fine 2.mp4
As Col so eloquently states, the official Premiership tallies in the VFL included VFA flags as well, up until some time in the 1930s/40s, when the historical revisionists came along and removed them.

 

[Sentinel]

View attachment 2019000
As Col so eloquently states, the official Premiership tallies in the VFL included VFA flags as well, up until some time in the 1930s/40s, when the historical revisionists came along and removed them.

The correction of a historical inaccuracy about the VFL/AFL records does not validate his absurd claim.

Half his argument in this video is that in 1883 the only teams in the 'competition' were those which ended up playing in the VFL/AFL. Completely ignoring that the likes of Williamstown, Port Melbourne, Ballarat, Albert Park etc were also part of this league in the various years that he wants to include in AFL records.

He also states that Port Adelaide's flags are different because they were won in a different competition, which funnily enough is the same case as the pre-1897 flags which were VFA/VFL competition flags, not VFL/AFL competition flags.

 

[MelbourneGWS]

If they did that then Port would have genuine reason to claim theirs as well.

Yes, Port can claim their SANFL titles, but as the SANFL was never part of the VFL/AFL competition, should those SANFL premierships be counted on the same level as a VFL/AFL premiership?

 

[Do the Dew]

Colin Carter is a ****n wank

 

[terrybull]

Yes, Port can claim their SANFL titles, but as the SANFL was never part of the VFL/AFL competition, should those SANFL premierships be counted on the same level as a VFL/AFL premiership?

VFA and the the loose competitions before it was never a part of the VFL.

 

[MelbourneGWS]

View attachment 2019000
As Col so eloquently states, the official Premiership tallies in the VFL included VFA flags as well, up until some time in the 1930s/40s, when the historical revisionists came along and removed them.

Does this mean VFA clubs that eventually did not end up in the VFL (such as Port Melbourne) get to count their VFA premierships, and they are equivalent to VFL/ AFL premierships? Or do only premierships won in the VFA before 1897 count?

 

[Cyclops]

Carters book is a meandering farrago of bulldust.

The there were no premierships in the period he is trying to invent flags for. The post VFL split VFA flags he dismisses are actual premierships with actual outcomes agreed by the Association and contending clubs, in distinction to his journalist awarded after-the-fact inventions.

His bizarre attempt to conflate flags from completely different competitions, but only when it aggrandizes his club, defies logic and brings the balance of his mind into question.

A momentary glance at his stupid argument is all it takes for its invalidity to become clear.

I'm astounded people in the media give this crap a moments oxygen. Maybe Whateley and Blobbo like the idea of journos deciding who the "real" premiers were over several gallons of beer?

If this bloke Carter was a Commissioner it explains a lot of things.

 

[South of the Yarra]

This

Collingwood, blues and bombers fans wont like this. But its true.

Why wouldn’t we like it as Pies supporters. Gives us 3 flags and leaves the Bombers on 2 and the Blues languishing on 1.
Even better start it post COVID

Pies- 1
Cats- 1

 

[rapidfire7]

Does this mean VFA clubs that eventually did not end up in the VFL (such as Port Melbourne) get to count their VFA premierships, and they are equivalent to VFL/ AFL premierships? Or do only premierships won in the VFA before 1897 count?

The latter. Only Premierships won in the premier competition at the time are counted.

 

[rapidfire7]

Why wouldn’t we like it as Pies supporters. Gives us 3 flags and leaves the Bombers on 2 and the Blues languishing on 1.
Even better start it post COVID

Pies- 1
Cats- 1

Nah it's 17 a piece. You guys could easily pull ahead this year with the form you're in though. Awesome rivalry we have. Respect.
*+1 to Collingwood (2023)

 

[Cyclops]

The latter. Only Premierships won in the premier competition at the time are counted.

What about flags that weren't won in the "Premier Competition" at the time? Why do they get counted?

 

[rapidfire7]

What about flags that weren't won in the "Premier Competition" at the time? Why do they get counted?

They are counted as lower grade Premierships, and therefore, not to be included in the current tallies.

Sir Col explains it all.

 

[Sentinel]

Nah it's 17 a piece. You guys could easily pull ahead this year with the form you're in though. Awesome rivalry we have. Respect.View attachment 2019148
*+1 to Collingwood (2023)

It's 17 a piece between Collingwood and Geelong when competing in the same league together. It's not 17 a piece in the VFL/AFL.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Can't steal history that isn't yours. The competition records are from 1897. The individual clubs can count their entire history but not in the context of the current competition.

Carlton have 16 premierships in the current comp, and 6 in various iterations prior to that.

Carlton can claim in their history they are 22 time premiers as a club, but they can't claim they are 22 time VFL/AFL premiers.

 

[Sentinel]

Can't steal history that isn't yours. The competition records are from 1897. The individual clubs can count their entire history but not in the context of the current competition.

Carlton have 16 premierships in the current comp, and 6 in various iterations prior to that.

Carlton can claim in their history they are 22 time premiers as a club, but they can't claim they are 22 time VFL/AFL premiers.

It's really this simple.

 

[Cyclops]

They are counted as lower grade Premierships, and therefore, not to be included in the current tallies.

Sir Col explains it all.

View attachment 2019165View attachment 2019166

Yeah I read it, it's incoherent bulldust.

 

[Underarm]

Can't steal history that isn't yours. The competition records are from 1897. The individual clubs can count their entire history but not in the context of the current competition.

Carlton have 16 premierships in the current comp, and 6 in various iterations prior to that.

Carlton can claim in their history they are 22 time premiers as a club, but they can't claim they are 22 time VFL/AFL premiers.

Which is exactly how Geelong's official website lists it. Though I find it funny that they can't even bother to name the years they won it prior to !925, let alone add any historical context to it.

Geelong - News, Fixtures, Scores & Results - geelongcats.com.au

Geelong Football Club. All the latest news, video, results and information

www.geelongcats.com.au

 

[Cyclops]

Which is exactly how Geelong's official website lists it. Though I find it funny that they can't even bother to name the years they won it prior to !925, let alone add any historical context to it.

Geelong - News, Fixtures, Scores & Results - geelongcats.com.au

Geelong Football Club. All the latest news, video, results and information

www.geelongcats.com.au

They should also count those Waurn Ponds state school flags won in the Belarine District League Junior section, that was a pretty "premier league" effort.