Proposal to include premierships dating back to 1870 gathering pace

[BF Tiger]

The Wurundjeri won 15 flags playing Marngrook on their Home ground at Dights Falls. That is next to Victoria Park. Those 15 flags have to be attributed to Collingwood.

Alan McAlister turned them down.

 

[South of the Yarra]

Alan McAlister turned them down.

Irrelevant, we are back dating flags, so they must count.

 

[BF Tiger]

Irrelevant, we are back dating flags, so they must count.

My bad. This must be how Collingwood "Do Better" - steal glory from indigenous history. Standard for the Pies.

 

[Blue1980]

No, that's not the comparison, the comparison would be if Test matches were played between counties and expanded to include international teams. Test cricket has always been played between nations, whereas the old VFL was a surburban comp that is now the AFL, which is national.

I'm merely suggesting we separate the surburban from the national, and not separating a comp having some teams to one having more teams like your example.

So what point does that begin? 1982 when swans begun playing in Sydney?

 

[Blue1980]

The afl is far far more different then the vfl than the vfl was from the pre 1896 vfa. Afl is fully professional, has drafts, and is played across the entire nation. If you think afl and vfl is the same then you must by all logic think that vfl and pre 1896 vfa is the same.

It’s a continuation of the same completion, whereas the VFL was a break away competition from the VFA.

Also when did it go fully professional, maybe mid-late 90s?

 

[Blue1980]

The amazing thing is they re-branded themselves as Fitzroy all but name. Can’t see much of the Bears in the Brisbane Lions.

There is no way North or no other club would have done that.

Lions jumper and nickname way better.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

So what point does that begin? 1982 when swans begun playing in Sydney?

1987 is the real date of the modern AFL coming into being. It was the first time in over 60 years that the league had expanded and new clubs from two more states were added.

If you want to talk about the national competition, 1987 is the year that makes most sense.

 

[Blue1980]

1987 is the real date of the modern AFL coming into being. It was the first time in over 60 years that the league had expanded and new clubs from two more states were added.

If you want to talk about the national competition, 1987 is the year that makes most sense.

I would agree, but many don’t like it as it means an extra Carlton flag counts as well as 2 more hawthorn ones.

 

[Cyclops]

It's not gathering pace. The book is farcical, incoherent and a flop.

There's no case to add flags from one comp to another. Carters clear desperation to add to Geelongs tally borders on the unhinged.

 

[South of the Yarra]

My bad. This must be how Collingwood "Do Better" - steal glory from indigenous history. Standard for the Pies.

I would suggest that all clubs including your own have had horrific racist pasts when it comes to Aboriginal players. You might want to remind yourself of some of the incredibly hurtful anti Aboriginal chants your ‘grog squad’ used to chant. As for some of the on-field and administrative racism that took place, the Tigers were as bad as anyone. Collingwood being one of those clubs with an astoundingly poor racist past. Thankfully racist flogs like McAllister and McGuire are no longer part of the club and we can begin to move forward. And by the way it is not Indigenous history I was referring to, it was Aboriginal history and as you know, I was using it to show how ridiculous the claims are of past Premierships.

 

[Father Jack]

Yes, fair enough, but that's why I mentioned the nature of the competition as well as the standard, as an afterthought in my post admittedly.

A better example may have been the modern Olympics. Not only has the standard changed, so has the nature - it has gone from where individuals competed as such, to very much now a nation based event. But the records date back to the first Olympics in 1896.

With this, I'm coming from a record keeping point of view. I have a strong personal history and involvement in that area. And, regardless of the changes in structure, nature and standard, what now is the AFL has nevertheless been one single, continuous competition since 1897. So that's when the record keeping starts and dates from.

I find that logical, and what makes that so straightforward is that it gives you a clear, unequivocal starting date. 1897. The "transition from suburban to national" argument doesn't. Is it when a non-Victorian based team first started competing? (1982). Is it when multiple non-Victorian teams first started competing? (1987). Is it when the VFL changed its name? (1990) Is it when all mainland states had a competing team? (1991). Hell, I could even make an argument that it won't be a "national" competition until Tassie finally gets its side.

If the VFL had wound itself up and set up a brand new, national AFL competition I would agree with your stance. VFL records stop and AFL records start. But it was a gradual evolution of the one competition, which involves continuity of records.

By the way, my stance isn't based on being a supporter of a Victorian club, which resultantly makes me emotionally connected to the VFL. I'm not a Victorian myself and I would be making exactly the same argument if the AFL had evolved from the WAFL or the SANFL or even the Sydney AFL.

So what point does that begin? 1982 when swans begun playing in Sydney?

1987 is the real date of the modern AFL coming into being. It was the first time in over 60 years that the league had expanded and new clubs from two more states were added.

If you want to talk about the national competition, 1987 is the year that makes most sense.

The main era of change was between 1982 and 1997, split the difference of that and you end up at around 1990, which is when the name change happens, which therefore gives us a very handy shorthand way of referring to the two eras, ie VFL and AFL.

 

[Freshwater]

This is a laughable idea from someone who was on the AFL Commision. No wonder Geelong was able to get all those grand stands built, a commissioner has access to the highest levels of business and politics, he probably used that access, which was meant as an AFL elder’s role, to better his own club? I have no doubt he mis used his time as a commissioner.
If this sill proposal went ahead should the Bulldogs get the 1924 premiership? As the VFA premier they played the VFL premier for a Champion of the State prize and won. This trophy hold a special place in Bulldog history but they would never think it counts as a flag.

 

[NetworkNerd]

This is a laughable idea from someone who was on the AFL Commision. No wonder Geelong was able to get all those grand stands built, a commissioner has access to the highest levels of business and politics, he probably used that access, which was meant as an AFL elder’s role, to better his own club? I have no doubt he mis used his time as a commissioner.
If this sill proposal went ahead should the Bulldogs get the 1924 premiership? As the VFA premier they played the VFL premier for a Champion of the State prize and won. This trophy hold a special place in Bulldog history but they would never think it counts as a flag.

That's why flags should count from when the Crows started in 1991. Representation from all the major states and all the best players in the one league.

 

[Xtreme]

Every time a new club joins the competition, everyone's premiership tally should reset to 0.

** Just as ridiculous as counting premierships won in an inferior competition

 

[Fat Nyfe]

If we're going back to 1870 you can notch up 10 premierships for us, please and thanks

 

[PizzaPie]

That's why flags should count from when the Crows started in 1991. Representation from all the major states and all the best players in the one league.

There should be a new version of the count every time a new team joins the comp. Then an overall version that is the sum of all the versions, and for simplicity sake just make the overall version the official one but let people on the internet pick and choose otherwise all we get is online consensus and agreement and it is destroying people's lives.

 

[rapidfire7]

We just want our Premierships to be formally recognised in our total by the AFL. Is that so much to ask?

 

[Pancakes]

Every time a new club joins the competition, everyone's premiership tally should reset to 0.

** Just as ridiculous as counting premierships won in an inferior competition

Every time the morons in charge of the league make a rule change it should reset to zero.

Pies premiership last year was won with different rules to the game this year.
Every team is now on zero.

 

[Cyclops]

We just want our Premierships to be formally recognised in our total by the AFL. Is that so much to ask?View attachment 2028707

Would you buy a used car from this man?

 

[rapidfire7]

Would you buy a used car from this man?

He is going to deliver 7 Premierships to Geelong, 6 to Carlton, 5 to Sydney, 4 to Essendon, etc.

His nickname 'The Mailman' is starting to catch on in AFL circles I hear.

Almost forgot, 1 to Collingwood too, so it's not all bad.

 

[Freshwater]

We just want our Premierships to be formally recognised in our total by the AFL. Is that so much to ask?View attachment 2028707

It’s ridiculous, as mentioned earlier the competition was so much in its infancy that some games counted were against country and junior clubs. Media nominated premiers, no grand final.
Bulldogs have many VFA premierships in a time VFL players were poached to the VFA on better money and some VFA could beat VFL premiers, 1924 a good example. Let’s count all these too.
What about Port Adelaide’s premierships? And Fremantle’s from East and South Fremantle. The cats weren’t even the cats they played in Eastern Gardens for 70 years and were called numerous names including the Pivots among others. It’s revisionist nonsense, before anyone alive now or their immediately ancestors were even around.
I live in Geelong and have most of my life, but Geelong nuffies here honestly think they are superior at football than anyone else in Australia. Guess what, people are all pretty equal really, and if your area had more resources or greater area to draw from or your working class people weren’t ripped away during the world wars or depressions, there was more chance of keeping a club together. Geelong has a very unique size in Victoria because it is regional and close to the capital but triple the size of the next couple of true regional centres like Ballarat and Bendigo and then further down the scale. And very well resourced with money.

 

[Blue1980]

It’s ridiculous, as mentioned earlier the competition was so much in its infancy that some games counted were against country and junior clubs. Media nominated premiers, no grand final.
Bulldogs have many VFA premierships in a time VFL players were poached to the VFA on better money and some VFA could beat VFL premiers, 1924 a good example. Let’s count all these too.
What about Port Adelaide’s premierships? And Fremantle’s from East and South Fremantle. The cats weren’t even the cats they played in Eastern Gardens for 70 years and were called numerous names including the Pivots among others. It’s revisionist nonsense, before anyone alive now or their immediately ancestors were even around.
I live in Geelong and have most of my life, but Geelong nuffies here honestly think they are superior at football than anyone else in Australia. Guess what, people are all pretty equal really, and if your area had more resources or greater area to draw from or your working class people weren’t ripped away during the world wars or depressions, there was more chance of keeping a club together. Geelong has a very unique size in Victoria because it is regional and close to the capital but triple the size of the next couple of true regional centres like Ballarat and Bendigo and then further down the scale. And very well resourced with money.

Maybe we should go back to that, just have the media nominate premiers, do away with finals.

 

[Stamos]

Maybe we should go back to that, just have the media nominate premiers, do away with finals.

Bombers like this

 

[Blue1980]

Bombers like this

Haha they are the ones I was thinking of. Media judges who won the draft too, Dodoro 28 years in a row.

 

[DEVO]

This is total BS if the Dogs can't add their 9 VFA titles, North their 6 (plus Essendon Associations 2 and West Melbourne's 1), Richmond their 2 and Hawthorn their...