Proposal to include premierships dating back to 1870 gathering pace

[sherb]

Clubs can record history however they like, but the league should stick to it's own history only.

Exactly. It really is as simple as that.

 

[PhatBoy]

You said you wanted them included in a separate tally/classification. Which they already are as VFA flags.

As well as being included in the total tally.

I’m honestly sick to death of Geelong people’s superiority complex tbh. You guys get so many advantages already and you are still greedy for more even wanting to change tallies to suit you.

I guarantee if Geelong didn’t win any VFA flags you’d be arguing against it.

I know I’m not the only person that thinks this.

I don’t want any extra flags included in any tally.

But the spinelessness of this advantage bullshit you pump out post after post just emphasises how weak as a fan you actually are.

 

[MelbourneGWS]

All flags count - in the competition they were won in.

Cats are free to combine VFA, VFL & AFL flags in their combined tally - but that does not make them all AFL flags.

But the AFL counts VFL premierships officially to the number of flags won by AFL clubs. Colin’s argument is that VFA flags won before the start of the VFL in 1897 should also be officially added?

 

[Cyclops]

Col doesn't want to turn old VFA Premierships into VFL or AFL ones. He just wants them to be formally recognised as Premierships by the AFL, and thus, added to the official tallies of Premierships won by the clubs. Like is the case with English Football Titles.

 

[Wojcinski]

You said you wanted them included in a separate tally/classification. Which they already are as VFA flags.

As well as being included in the total tally.

I’m honestly sick to death of Geelong people’s superiority complex tbh. You guys get so many advantages already and you are still greedy for more even wanting to change tallies to suit you.

I guarantee if Geelong didn’t win any VFA flags you’d be arguing against it.

I know I’m not the only person that thinks this.

and yet of your 5530 posts on this account 5218 of them are either in Geelong related threads or mention Geelong/its players. I'd be sick of Geelong too if all I did was obsess over them on an internet forum

 

[Cleansweep17]

and yet of your 5530 posts on this account 5218 of them are either in Geelong related threads or mention Geelong/its players. I'd be sick of Geelong too if all I did was obsess over them on an internet forum

Looking up other people’s post counts is what children do. You can go be a mute somewhere else I like talking.

 

[sherb]

Not sure why it's so hard to change it if doesn't doesn't really matter? Restoring history does matter for some of us, even if we are in the minority.

The history is there for you already, there's nothing to restore.

Geelong Football Club - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[rapidfire7]

One thing is clear, there's gonna be a full on meltdown when this eventually gets over the line.

 

[Cleansweep17]

One thing is clear, there's gonna be a full on meltdown when this eventually gets over the line.

And you’ll be sooking forever because it won’t.

 

[terrybull]

One thing is clear, there's gonna be a full on meltdown when this eventually gets over the line.

I’m not religious, but I expect the second coming of Christ will happen before this.

 

[Cleansweep17]

I’m not religious, but I expect the second coming of Christ will happen before this.

Woah slow down, Dusty hasn’t had any kids yet.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Col doesn't want to turn old VFA Premierships into VFL or AFL ones. He just wants them to be formally recognised as Premierships by the AFL, and thus, added to the official tallies of Premierships won by the clubs. Like is the case with English Football Titles.

There is no independent “official” tally of premierships. In either sport.

In England the Premier League does the Premier League. The Football League (now the EFL) does the Football League.

The overriding body is the FA, but they don’t get involved in these things.

The Premier League records have not been changed to co-opt the Football League records.

If people want to recognise them themselves, that’s up to them. Individual clubs do.

It’s the same in Australia. The AFL (formerly the VFL) does the VFL/AFL.

Carter wants to change VFL/AFL records to co-opt VFA history into it. There’s no precedent in England for doing this.

If people or clubs want to recognise them themselves, then they’re free to. It’s up to them. Many do. Essendon have a space reserved in their premiership trophy cabinet for their “21st senior premiership” - which will be the next one (provided the world doesn’t freeze over first). But they don’t expect the AFL to recognise the VFA flags as part of VFL/AFL history. Cos they’re not.

If you, Colin Carter or anybody else wants to do up your own list and post it online or whatever, go for it. It’s not the AFL’s business however, and they know it. You can’t claim another organisation’s history as your own and seriously proclaim that as a universal truth.

 

[2009premiers]

As far as my Wikipedia research goes:
1870 - No formal competition, just clubs organising a few games between themselves.
1877 - VFA started to agree on rules but there was no formal competition or ranking, standard fixture or premierships awarded.
1888 - formal competition with ladder and premierships recognised by VFA
1894 - first time a standard fixture introduced.
1896 - formal Grand Final playoff introduced

The formal VFA premiers were:
1888 South Melbourne
1889 South Melbourne
1890 South Melbourne
1891 Essendon
1892 Essendon
1893 Essendon
1894 Essendon
1895 Fitzroy
1896 Collingwood

To claim anything prior to 1888 as a VFA premiership is disingenuous. It is like Mark Robinson and the Herald Sun deciding who they think the premiership team is after watching a few random games.

Up to 1893 there wasn’t even a standard fixture.
In my view, only 1894 onwards could seriously be considered as a continuous precursor to the VFL.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

As far as my Wikipedia research goes:
1870 - No formal competition, just clubs organising a few games between themselves.
1877 - VFA started to agree on rules but there was no formal competition or ranking, standard fixture or premierships awarded.
1888 - formal competition with ladder and premierships recognised by VFA
1894 - first time a standard fixture introduced.
1896 - formal Grand Final playoff introduced

The formal VFA premiers were:
1888 South Melbourne
1889 South Melbourne
1890 South Melbourne
1891 Essendon
1892 Essendon
1893 Essendon
1894 Essendon
1895 Fitzroy
1896 Collingwood

To claim anything prior to 1888 as a VFA premiership is disingenuous. It is like Mark Robinson and the Herald Sun deciding who they think the premiership team is after watching a few random games.

Up to 1893 there wasn’t even a standard fixture.
In my view, only 1894 onwards could seriously be considered as a continuous precursor to the VFL.

Look at your list and try to work why Colin Carter doesn’t agree with you.

 

[rapidfire7]

There is no independent “official” tally of premierships. In either sport.

Whether or not there is an absolute official tally, it is widely accepted in English football that Premierships from the EPL and the old First Division can be added together to give a clubs full tally of English titles.

You see and hear about how many English titles a club has won all the time. There's nothing controversial about it.

Please tell me if there is a difference in the relationship between the old First Division in England and the Premier League, when compared to the relationship between that of the old VFA and the VFL/AFL.

If there are no notable differences, why do they broadly accept totalling the two eras of titles together in England, but we do not over here?
Why do people get so upset if someone says Carlton has won 22 Premierships over here, but no one bats an eyelid if someone says Liverpool has 19 or Man Utd has 20 titles?

Why is it okay to say one but not the other? what is the difference?

 

[Pies No 1]

They need to leave it alone, or it will open up a can of worms with teams like Port Adelaide claiming the 36 SANFL premierships, or the new Tassie team claiming random Tasmanian premierships from the last 100 years.

 

[2009premiers]

Please tell me if there is a difference in the relationship between the old First Division in England and the Premier League, when compared to the relationship between that of the old VFA and the VFL/AFL.

If there are no notable differences, why do they broadly accept totalling the two eras of titles together in England, but we do not over here?
Why do people get so upset if someone says Carlton has won 22 Premierships over here, but no one bats an eyelid if someone says Liverpool has 19 or Man Utd has 20 titles?

Why is it okay to say one but not the other? what is the difference?

See my above post. There was no formal VFA premiership prior to 1888. The was no standard fixture until 1894.
English football had a formal premiership and standard fixture from Day 1.