Public vs Private School funding

[Bombermania]

The problem with the government funding private schools is that they fail to provide similar standards in their own schools.

It would be like if Woolworths decided to provide Coles with its best fruit and veg only to then say sorry but we can only stock rotting fruit and veg in our stores.

 

[Evolved1]

The problem with the government funding private schools is that they fail to provide similar standards in their own schools.

It would be like if Woolworths decided to provide Coles with its best fruit and veg only to then say sorry but we can only stock rotting fruit and veg in our stores.

Would you like to elaborate on that?

 

[Gralin]

If the parents don't care. Do you disagree?

Yeah I do because there are plenty of examples of parents who did care with kids that didn't and vice versa

But effectively what you are saying is if a kid has shit/poor/disinterested parents, tough shit, don't give the school they go to additional resources to help the kid out, like whats the point right? **** that kid should have had better parents yeah?

Should taxes paid by childless couples be used on government schools? If so why??? Should people who don't drive pay for capital infrastructure projects like the Westgate Tunnel?

In the UK private schools receive no government funding meaning a bigger percentage of children are forced into the government school system. By providing limited funding to private schools more Australians can attend private schools and the governments in Australia end up saving more by not having to build the extra capacity or employ extra teachers etc.

Do love when you just keep refusing to answer a question related to your own argument.

Why do you deserve to have your kids private school education subsidized by the taxpayer when it was your choice to not use public schooling for them?

Is a decently equipped library necessary in 2022? My kids haven't used a library in years.

I'm skeptical about any claim that quality of teachers is better in the private (edit) system. The teachers I encountered in the public system seemed to care more about their students, while those in the private system cared about results. That's the selling point of private schools.

I was fortunate to have a laptop through VCE in the late 20th century. We played games and swapped pr0n during classes.

I agree with your last paragraph. That's what I was trying to tell Ghosty.

Yes a decently equipped library is necessary in 2022, not everyone has easy access to the internet at home for starters, libraries mean kids have access to reading material they might otherwise not have access to

Libraries are great, public and school, how is that even an arguement?

Say a family earns $120,000 per year, has one child and spends $15,000 per year on their child's education through private school fees. The child attracts the average amount of government funding for non-government schools ($12,000), meaning the child gets $27,000 of education through various funding sources.

Now, take the kid out of the private school and send him to the equivalent state school. His parents probably spend $2,000 per year on the child (through various levies and payments for events), and the government sector provides the average amount which is $16,000.

So the child gets $9,000 less spent on their education, but the taxpayer spends $4,000 more on that child's education.

Guess what - it's exactly the same calculus for private health insurance.

I didn't go to a private school or was interested in going to one, but I can understand why funding non-government schools is a bipartisan project in Australia and has been for a long time.

What we need in Victoria is more fully-selective government schools, so we can fully develop our gifted students, who are the ones who, if fully developed, make the discoveries that help all people.

I'm guessing you haven't had much exposure to the school system since leaving it?

 

[Bombermania]

Would you like to elaborate on that?

If state schools were on par with private schools then most parents wouldn't bother spending so much on school frees for private schools.

 

[Gralin]

The Facts About School Funding in Australia – SOS Australia

saveourschools.com.au

State's have been cheaping out on school funding and Feds have been working very hard to funnel money to the private sector as they do love to do

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Say a family earns $120,000 per year, has one child and spends $15,000 per year on their child's education through private school fees. The child attracts the average amount of government funding for non-government schools ($12,000), meaning the child gets $27,000 of education through various funding sources.

Now, take the kid out of the private school and send him to the equivalent state school. His parents probably spend $2,000 per year on the child (through various levies and payments for events), and the government sector provides the average amount which is $16,000.

So the child gets $9,000 less spent on their education, but the taxpayer spends $4,000 more on that child's education.

Guess what - it's exactly the same calculus for private health insurance.

I didn't go to a private school or was interested in going to one, but I can understand why funding non-government schools is a bipartisan project in Australia and has been for a long time.

What we need in Victoria is more fully-selective government schools, so we can fully develop our gifted students, who are the ones who, if fully developed, make the discoveries that help all people.

If we believe in equal opportunity then the allocating of our available resources needs to start with the child, not with the two people who happen to be their parents.

So starting with the child - $27k vs $18k is the relevant measure.

50% is a big gap.

What if we levelled that out?

(The private school would still be well in front due to donations and benefactors anyway)

 

[Sttew]

Do love when you just keep refusing to answer a question related to your own argument.

Why do you deserve to have your kids private school education subsidized by the taxpayer when it was your choice to not use public schooling for them?

I did answer it. Why should you or the government dictate how I educate my child. Why can't we agree that each student is entitled to $XX for education and whether that is spent at a private or state school is up to the parents. As has been pointed out in several posts, every student NOT at a government school is a saving for the government, so it suits governments for private schools to exists, hence governments are happy to fund them.

If every family relying on tax subsidy at private schools suddenly lost that subsidy under the Gralin Ruling, forcing those children into the state system, the state system would buckle. Is that what you want?

 

[Bombermania]

The Facts About School Funding in Australia – SOS Australia

saveourschools.com.au

State's have been cheaping out on school funding and Feds have been working very hard to funnel money to the private sector as they do love to do

View attachment 1315463

State schools are the responsibility of state governments therefore they are not the responsibility of the federal government. The main source of state school funding comes from the state and not from Canberra but if you ask me it is another example of the dysfunctional federation system.

 

[Evolved1]

If we believe in equal opportunity then the allocating of our available resources needs to start with the child, not with the two people who happen to be their parents.

So starting with the child - $27k vs $18k is the relevant measure.

50% is a big gap.

What if we levelled that out?

(The private school would still be well in front due to donations and benefactors anyway)

Private school fees aren't "our available resources". That's discretionary spending from parents.

 

[Evolved1]

If state schools were on par with private schools then most parents wouldn't bother spending so much on school frees for private schools.

I completely agree. The best option is to see our public school system brought to a level that it can compete with private schools.

Taking funding away from private schools seems like a case of tall poppy syndrome.

 

[Bombermania]

Say a family earns $120,000 per year, has one child and spends $15,000 per year on their child's education through private school fees. The child attracts the average amount of government funding for non-government schools ($12,000), meaning the child gets $27,000 of education through various funding sources.

Now, take the kid out of the private school and send him to the equivalent state school. His parents probably spend $2,000 per year on the child (through various levies and payments for events), and the government sector provides the average amount which is $16,000.

So the child gets $9,000 less spent on their education, but the taxpayer spends $4,000 more on that child's education.

Guess what - it's exactly the same calculus for private health insurance.

I didn't go to a private school or was interested in going to one, but I can understand why funding non-government schools is a bipartisan project in Australia and has been for a long time.

What we need in Victoria is more fully-selective government schools, so we can fully develop our gifted students, who are the ones who, if fully developed, make the discoveries that help all people.

The fundamental problem with this approach and as footy fans we see highly rated juniors tank at AFL level only for the lowly rated junior to become a 200 gamer.

Sometimes talent takes time to mature and just focusing on the smart kid that aces exams and tests isn't an indicator of real talent but just reflects that kid being good at exams or tests.

 

[Baltimore Jack]

It is right wing philosophy 101

Keep the masses stupid and only educate your own.
Easier to keep the masses in control only only the educated (right wingers) get elected

 

[Bombermania]

I completely agree. The best option is to see our public school system brought to a level that it can compete with private schools.

Taking funding away from private schools seems like a case of tall poppy syndrome.

Its often push by people that think the problem is only about money and in some cases it can be but its not always the case.

 

[Evolved1]

Its often push by people that think the problem is only about money and in some cases it can be but its not always the case.

How would you bridge the gap, especially in lower SES areas?

 

[Gralin]

I did answer it. Why should you or the government dictate how I educate my child. Why can't we agree that each student is entitled to $XX for education and whether that is spent at a private or state school is up to the parents. As has been pointed out in several posts, every student NOT at a government school is a saving for the government, so it suits governments for private schools to exists, hence governments are happy to fund them.

If every family relying on tax subsidy at private schools suddenly lost that subsidy under the Gralin Ruling, forcing those children into the state system, the state system would buckle. Is that what you want?

You didn't answer the question asking why your argument was valid?

You think equality in funding is the answer, clearly that means you don't believe in equity

I want the priority in all education funding to be the public system and I want the most disadvantaged schools to get the biggest boost in funding

I don't want money getting thrown at for profits that don't need it.

I generally would like the private school system to be abolished because its a class system that is designed to create an advantage for rich people and they sucker the middle class into helping fund it and fight on their behalf to keep the haves with more

 

[Bunk Moreland]

I did answer it. Why should you or the government dictate how I educate my child. Why can't we agree that each student is entitled to $XX for education and whether that is spent at a private or state school is up to the parents. As has been pointed out in several posts, every student NOT at a government school is a saving for the government, so it suits governments for private schools to exists, hence governments are happy to fund them.

If every family relying on tax subsidy at private schools suddenly lost that subsidy under the Gralin Ruling, forcing those children into the state system, the state system would buckle. Is that what you want?

Because the goal is to give every child the most equal opportunity possible, not to have their opportunity dictated by who their parents are.

It’s not about the government or you as the parent. It’s about the child.

 

[Gralin]

I completely agree. The best option is to see our public school system brought to a level that it can compete with private schools.

Taking funding away from private schools seems like a case of tall poppy syndrome.

Or you know it could be that private schools are much better at lobbying for the funding to go to them than the public schools are given the nature of their setups

Why shouldn't the private schools suffer a bit for the greater good. Why should we guarantee funding to for profit schools at the expense of public schools.

Why are the feds funnelling so much money into private schools, why don't they have a more responsibility for public education, why is it all private with them?

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Private school fees aren't "our available resources". That's discretionary spending from parents.

And if they’re directing those resources to education, then then they’re resources for education.

Semantics, it’s obvious what I’m saying.

 

[Evolved1]

I'm not voting to give other children an equal outcome if it comes at a heavy cost to my own.

It's not a selling point that will work in an election.

 

[Evolved1]

Or you know it could be that private schools are much better at lobbying for the funding to go to them than the public schools are given the nature of their setups

Why shouldn't the private schools suffer a bit for the greater good. Why should we guarantee funding to for profit schools at the expense of public schools.

Why are the feds funnelling so much money into private schools, why don't they have a more responsibility for public education, why is it all private with them?

I'm happy to pay higher taxes to bring public schools up to standard. I won't support taking money from the private school system as a means to make it happen.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

I'm not voting to give other children an equal outcome if it comes at a heavy cost to my own.

It's not a selling point that will work in an election.

Well nobody would expect you to.

I think independent schools make up around 15% of total enrolled students Australia wide, however.

 

[Evolved1]

And if they’re directing those resources to education, then then they’re resources for education.

Semantics, it’s obvious what I’m saying.

It's an entitled viewpoint to see other peoples money as part of the common pot.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

I'm happy to pay higher taxes to bring public schools up to standard. I won't support taking money from the private school system as a means to make it happen.

Now THERE’S something that won’t work at an election!

 

[Bombermania]

How would you bridge the gap, especially in lower SES areas?

The government needs to better target those schools to ensure they have the needed resources.

They don't need to take from the private schools but they could look at what the private schools do with their resources.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

It's an entitled viewpoint to see other peoples money as part of the common pot.

It’s probably more entitled to say that Johnny deserves more spent on his education than Janey, simply based on which nasty they fell out of and which bloke was in there nine months earlier.

That’s the whole thing… it’s the Right of the Child concept. It’s not about who their parents are. That’s the theory behind it.