Public vs Private School funding

[Evolved1]

link to where I spoke about sporting grounds or other luxuries?

im speaking about a decently equipped library, teachers who know the subject matter enough to answer a students question, and coordinators/counsellors who actually let students know what they need to do to qualify for university.

In the early 90's my high school has 20 PC's for a school with over 800 students. They were still teaching typing as a course, because they have 60 typewriters in the "typing rooms"


remember too, there is a big difference between a public school in Frankston, and one in Balwyn

Is a decently equipped library necessary in 2022? My kids haven't used a library in years.

I'm skeptical about any claim that quality of teachers is better in the private (edit) system. The teachers I encountered in the public system seemed to care more about their students, while those in the private system cared about results. That's the selling point of private schools.

I was fortunate to have a laptop through VCE in the late 20th century. We played games and swapped pr0n during classes.

I agree with your last paragraph. That's what I was trying to tell Ghosty.

 

[FIGJAM]

In the early 90's my high school has 20 PC's for a school with over 800 students. They were still teaching typing as a course, because they have 60 typewriters in the "typing rooms"

Sounds familiar! Are we talking 18 IBM clones, 2 Macintosh Classic II's and a dot matrix printer?

 

[Ned_Flanders]

There is a big difference in a state school in Frankston and another state school in Frankston. Do you think parents would rather send their kids to Frankston High School, McClelland (Karingal Park) College or Mt Erin Secondary College?

I grew up in the era of Monterey Tech and High and Seaford Carrum. I know the difference within Franga

 

[tandino]

remember too, there is a big difference between a public school in Frankston, and one in Balwyn

So is the problem independent school funding when there is such a disparity in the state system?

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Is a decently equipped library necessary in 2022? My kids haven't used a library in years.

I'm skeptical about any claim that quality of teachers is better in the public system. The teachers I encountered in the public system seemed to care more about their students, while those in the private system cared about results. That's the selling point of private schools.

I was fortunate to have a laptop through VCE in the late 20th century. We played games and swapped pr0n during classes.

I agree with your last paragraph. That's what I was trying to tell Ghosty.

librarys are still needed IMO for decent referencing. the web is great for articles and wiki, but in my field anyway a lot of academic and research info is behind pay for play walls.

Remember libraries also pay subscriptions so that you can access a lot of this non-free material. a very basic example i found out back in my uni days (when I needed one of these for a paper) was most public libraries have an Australian Standards subscription (which matters because some can cost several hundred dollars to buy)

 

[The Punter]

Say a family earns $120,000 per year, has one child and spends $15,000 per year on their child's education through private school fees. The child attracts the average amount of government funding for non-government schools ($12,000), meaning the child gets $27,000 of education through various funding sources.

Now, take the kid out of the private school and send him to the equivalent state school. His parents probably spend $2,000 per year on the child (through various levies and payments for events), and the government sector provides the average amount which is $16,000.

So the child gets $9,000 less spent on their education, but the taxpayer spends $4,000 more on that child's education.

Guess what - it's exactly the same calculus for private health insurance.

I didn't go to a private school or was interested in going to one, but I can understand why funding non-government schools is a bipartisan project in Australia and has been for a long time.

What we need in Victoria is more fully-selective government schools, so we can fully develop our gifted students, who are the ones who, if fully developed, make the discoveries that help all people.

 

[Evolved1]

I grew up in the era of Monterey Tech and High and Seaford Carrum. I know the difference within Franga

Just be thankful you didn't end up in Kananook creek, mate.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

So is the problem independent school funding when there is such a disparity in the state system?

just imo (and i havent deep dived into this, so its off the top of my head only)

1) care factor. voters dont give two shits about povo kids going to povo schools, because they are shit students - so why teach them properly. even in my day it was seen as a holding bay until you could quit to go work at 15 (we had half the students in my year 12 year level that we did at year 7, and the size of the school increased from 600 to 800 in that time)

2) fundraising. reality is you get a lot more coin from parents in wealthy areas than in poorer ones. I cant speak for high school, but i remember my folks were in the school council for my primary school, and anything outside the minimum (ie a new library, repaving the basketball courts, a school bus) were paid nearly solely from local fundraising like the school fete

 

[Pessimistic]

Blah blah. lBtw Dan is Catholic, get rid of him.

I read catholic schools are shrinking and in some cases leasing facilities to the state sector

I wonder why the Catholics are unpopular with parents?

 

[Theseventhhamster]

link to where I spoke about sporting grounds or other luxuries?

im speaking about a decently equipped library, teachers who know the subject matter enough to answer a students question, and coordinators/counsellors who actually let students know what they need to do to qualify for university.

In the early 90's my high school has 20 PC's for a school with over 800 students. They were still teaching typing as a course, because they have 60 typewriters in the "typing rooms"


remember too, there is a big difference between a public school in Frankston, and one in Balwyn

Class was called Keyboarding if I recall correctly. We had electric typewriters, fancy!

As a result of that class I type with better technique than pretty much every younger person I know despite only working in an office for a few years. (former tradie)

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Just be thankful you didn't end up in Kananook creek, mate.

I actually did once, and before it was "beautified" in the 90's

 

[Evolved1]

I actually did once, and before it was "beautified" in the 90's

One of my first jobs was in a Frankston supermarket and I often parked over the creek near Maccas. It's the only place I've had someone try to break into my car.

 

[Ice-Wolf]

I grew up in the era of Monterey Tech and High and Seaford Carrum. I know the difference within Franga

I grew up on the Westernport side of the Peninsula the state school choice was Hastings High or Mt Erin, funnily enough a lot of kids got sent to Padua instead.

 

[Deliverance]

FFS you are delusional

1) thats because socio economic status dictates what school you can go to. Be it by geography limiting your public options, or cash limiting your private ones

2) teachers who barely pass were at our school, because the private schools cherry pick the best of the best by paying them well above govt rates

3) text books are the start of learning. when I was studying you needed to quote a minimum of ten external sources for a high school report. Your textbook is just one of them. FFS even for mandatory texts (not on the official text book list, but for a specific project), we usually only had 2 copies in the library for 60-120 students to fight over

the fact you think i got the same education in frankston as someone from scotch is beyond laughable

Your personal experience doesn't override the facts.

Public schools actually outperform private schools, and with less money

New analysis shows public schools have similar, or even better, results than private schools with similar rankings of socioeconomic status.

theconversation.com

 

[Ned_Flanders]

I read catholic schools are springing and in some cases leasing facilities to the state sector

I wonder why the Catholics are unpopular with parents?

I know the catholic school in my area growing up (john paul college) had rumours of financial issues even then.

they kept fees low so as to be an everypersons private school solution, but that meant massive overcrowding in classes

a mate who was in the public school with me had his brother in JPC, and the "what are we paying for?" question was apparently asked more than once

 

[Evolved1]

I grew up on the Westernport side of the Peninsula the state school choice was Hastings High or Mt Erin, funnily enough a lot of kids got sent to Padua instead.

I played full back for my grammar school and got pegged by PEGS.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Your personal experience doesn't override the facts.

Public schools actually outperform private schools, and with less money

New analysis shows public schools have similar, or even better, results than private schools with similar rankings of socioeconomic status.

theconversation.com

this comes down to how you define "outperform". one thing public schools were good at when i was in the system was teaching independence and resilience. you couldnt rely on being spoon fed or tutored to get the win, so you learned to beg borrow and steal to get your way through. First year of my uni, the public kids absolutely smashed the private ones (despite being massively outnumbered)

and again, balwyn high is very different to monterey high

 

[Ice-Wolf]

a mate who was in the public school with me had his brother in JPC, and the "what are we paying for?" question was apparently asked more than once

You're paying for the kids who's parents couldn't pay. JPC and Padua are regional colleges they have to accept all Catholics regardless of the parents ability to afford the fees. (Or at least that's what they were, today maybe not so much)

 

[Opine]

I read catholic schools are springing and in some cases leasing facilities to the state sector

I wonder why the Catholics are unpopular with parents?

I don’t know. I haven’t come across any such stat.

Both of my children went to Catholic schools; primary and secondary. Both enjoyed the experience and did very well in their academic results and beyond

The biggest benefit is cultural; in that kids associate with like mknded others; thus better protected from risk of exposure to religious bigots which can mess with thejr self esteem. Once their education is complete, they’re far better equipped to lawfully deal with discrimination.

 

[Evolved1]

I don’t know. I haven’t come across any such stat.

Both of my children went to Catholic schools; primary and secondary. Bkth enjoyed the experience and did very well in their academic results and beyond

The biggest benefit is cultural; in that kids associate with like mknded others; thus better protected from risk of exposure to religious bigots which can mess with thejr self esteem. Once their education is complete, they’re far better equipped to lawfully deal with discrimination.

Exposure to religious bigots isn't a major issue in most schools unless you're overt about your faith and part of a minority in a homogeneous landscape. Aussies are indifferent towards religion until it encroaches on their freedoms.

 

[Ice-Wolf]

Exposure to religious bigots isn't a major issue in most schools unless you're overt about your faith and part of a minority in a homogeneous landscape. Aussies are indifferent towards religion until it encroaches on their freedoms.

Lol in the last year at my Catholic High School we got a new Principal who was obviously a born again, was a big shock for the lay catholic culture of the school.

 

[Opine]

Exposure to religious bigots isn't a major issue in most schools unless you're overt about your faith and part of a minority in a homogeneous landscape. Aussies are indifferent towards religion until it encroaches on their freedoms.

Like most kids these days, ours are fairly liberal. You may be right about true state of discrimination; we felt somewhat similar. However, we chose not to take the risk of discovering otherwise.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Lol in the last year at my Catholic High School we got a new Principal who was obviously a born again, was a big shock for the lay catholic culture of the school.

back in my day the catholic schools were apparently pretty light on the dogma, with a whole sex and and abortion thing being the only red lines

have no mates ever in them, but heard anecdotally that the fundy schools are the ones with the USA style evan bullshit being rammed down your throat (but again - grain of salt)

 

[Ice-Wolf]

back in my day the catholic schools were apparently pretty light on the dogma, with a whole sex and and abortion thing being the only red lines

have no mates ever in them, but heard anecdotally that the fundy schools are the ones with the USA style evan bullshit being rammed down your throat (but again - grain of salt)

Yeah pretty much the experience for Catholic Schools once they were almost exclusively lay teachers and administrators (not nuns, priests or monks) was that they focused on social justice aspects and not on dogma and were for the most part were just state schools with a compulsory RE class and the occasional mass.

 

[Evolved1]

Like most kids these days, ours are fairly liberal. You may be right about true state of discrimination; we felt somewhat similar. However, we chose not to take the risk of discovering otherwise.

My kids attended a private Christian school for several years and were exposed to discriminatory views that made me uncomfortable.

Me of all people.