Expansion QLD and NSW academies

[Elixuh]

I heard that Levi Ashcroft was so terrified of playing NRL that he left Qld to play footy in Melbourne.

Levi Ashcroft is a father son. Next question.

 

[Atomboy]

Levi Ashcroft is a father son. Next question.

No shit.

 

[Elixuh]

We lost the 2004 preliminary final to a side benefiting from a retention allowance, and the 2005 semi final to a side benefiting from a cost of living allowance.
I don't think we would have won the flag in those years as we were still young, but it doesn't change the fact we were knocked out of the finals by sides that had extra money in their salary cap.

We have to play finals at the MCG despite being based in a city that is not Melbourne.

Queensland has already overtaken South Australia in terms of producing talent, and is on track to overtake Western Australia within the next decade.
Please tell me why the Lions and Suns need exclusive access to talent coming out of Queensland?
Would it be fair if we had exclusive access to players from the Geelong Falcons?

Raising the 04 prelim and having to play at the mcg in the same breath is a special kind of comment when you consider the 04 prelim was our home final we were forced to play at the MCG.

 

[Taper]

Because as stated above by others there will won't be young talent coming through as you expect as they will go to rugby league and other sports. There is no draft in those other sports so they can sign talent at junior ages which the 4 northern AFL clubs cant do without an Academy. My cousin was chased by multiple NRL clubs as a 15yo with promise of money up front and a supported pathway to 18 years.

Isn't the AFL overtaking the NRL in Queensland?
If giving the Lions and Suns exclusive access to the best players in Queensland is to prevent losing them to other sports, then why shouldn't clubs in Victoria, WA and SA have exclusive access to academies so young talent isn't lost to cricket, soccer, basketball, tennis?
Alex Carey was lost to cricket so maybe an academy would have kept him in the AFL?

The second point on losing to Academy teams in finals you stated above: The Lions beat Geelong in 2024 but that is the first time we have beaten your team in a final in 20 years. You left out all the losses we had to you blokes such as 2022.

We were good enough to beat the Lions in 2020 and 2022 despite the Lions benefiting from their academy leg up.
Take away the academy leg up from the Lions and we either win those games by more, or the Lions aren't good enough to get to those preliminary finals because they're without the academy leg up.

 

[Cmarsh]

Isn't the AFL overtaking the NRL in Queensland?
If giving the Lions and Suns exclusive access to the best players in Queensland is to prevent losing them to other sports, then why shouldn't clubs in Victoria, WA and SA have exclusive access to academies so young talent isn't lost to cricket, soccer, basketball, tennis?
Alex Carey was lost to cricket so maybe an academy would have kept him in the AFL?

We were good enough to beat the Lions in 2020 and 2022 despite the Lions benefiting from their academy leg up.
Take away the academy leg up from the Lions and we either win those games by more, or the Lions aren't good enough to get to those preliminary finals because they're without the academy leg up.

Ahh... In NSW and QLD they are also competing with criclet, tennis, basketball and soccer.

 

[Freomaniac]

You're not actually blaming your loss in the prelim to the Lions on them having an academy, are you?

We can discredit any teams success using this logic. Any Melbourne team that wins a flag at the G against an interstate opponent, it doesn't count because of the home ground advantage. At what point do we remove the training wheels from the Melbourne clubs?

Papa G , your thoughts?

 

[Freomaniac]

At what point do the AFL remove the training wheels from the Swans and Lions?
First it was the retention allowance and cost of living allowance, now it's the academies.
I've had to witness my side get knocked out of the finals in 2004, 2005, 2016 and 2024 by teams benefiting from these leg ups.

2004: cats lost to Brisbane in a preliminary final.

2005: cats lose to swans in a semi final.

2016: cats lose to swans in a preliminary final.

2024: cats lose to Brisbane in a preliminary final.

Where are my dockers leg ups? LoL

 

[Blackhawk42]

Thank goodness for academies, otherwise athletes such as Nick Blakey and Cooper Hodge never would have heard of AFL footy and would have potentially been lost to the game forever.

 

[Nunez]

Lol Geelong fans complaining about academies while paying players off the books in the form of assets is the irony I needed today.

 

[Hoops]

Raising the 04 prelim and having to play at the mcg in the same breath is a special kind of comment when you consider the 04 prelim was our home final we were forced to play at the MCG.

I can empathise with having to play your home final at the MCG

 

[Obeanie1]

It's true. Both Heeney and Mills have stated publicly that there's no way they would have resisted the urge to pursue one of the rugby codes had it not been for the Swans academy. There's also been several 'almost' situations that would have fed ridiculously talented athletes into the AFL like Tom Trbojevic (Sydney), Kalyn Ponga (Brisbane), Hamiso Tabuai-Fidow (Gold Coast) - three of the best players in the NRL for those who are uninitiated - as well as the NBA's Josh Green (GWS). Getting elite athletes like that into our league is good for footy, but it never would have been possible if the northern clubs didn't have incentive to recruit them from other sports and develop them into footballers.

If you remove the priority access to these juniors then the incentive for the northern clubs to develop them into top end draft prospects dies and we go back to the way things were 10+ years ago when the academies didn't exist and we saw virtually zero first round prospects coming out of the northern states. For some reason, southerners have it in their mind that if you just open up access to these players for every club then everything else will remain the same. That's a flawed understanding of what's going on. The same thing happened with the NGAs when priority access was removed and we essentially saw the production line of top end talent stop coming through. It's really not that hard to understand, but people down south don't get it for some reason.

So academies should be retained so potential NRL juniors who dont want to move will choose AFL?

Too bad every other kid outside of those states are forced to go where they are drafted.

It's a poor argument for retaining academy access at current levels. Bordering on tongue in cheek woke BS.

Clubs will fight tooth and nail for every advantage they can get over opposition clubs. Let's not kid ourselves the northern clubs aren't.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Geelong fans whinging is the epitome of irony! Seriously they get the advantages of an academy without being an academy. How many players have they 'traded' for whilst miraculously been under the cap.

Just fix the curve and everyone is happy it's not complicated actually the AFL is making it complicated when it doesn't have to be

 

[Obeanie1]

Lol Geelong fans complaining about academies while paying players off the books in the form of assets is the irony I needed today.

Sounds like tax evasion.

You have any proof?

Irony is thinking that your team and every other do exactly the same thing.

We can see with academies all teams are not as equal as others. And the academies are controlled by those in charge.

 

[sunsofanarchy]

So academies should be retained so potential NRL juniors who dont want to move will choose AFL?

Too bad every other kid outside of those states are forced to go where they are drafted.

It's a poor argument for retaining academy access at current levels. Bordering on tongue in cheek woke BS.

Clubs will fight tooth and nail for every advantage they can get over opposition clubs. Let's not kid ourselves the northern clubs aren't.

Sheezel, Tsatas and Bailey Smith all recent top 10 picks who made it clear to non Victorian clubs not to draft them

 

[Obeanie1]

Sheezel, Tsatas and Bailey Smith all recent top 10 picks who made it clear to non Victorian clubs not to draft them

So?

Does that mean all non Vic clubs should have academies then?

 

[Papa G]

Papa G , your thoughts?

I really don't give a shit any more. The "competition" is a corrupt piece of dogshit and this Taper idiot is Ken Hinkley's Girlfriend and deserves to be ignored.

 

[randyzany]

Geelong fans whinging is the epitome of irony! Seriously they get the advantages of an academy without being an academy. How many players have they 'traded' for whilst miraculously been under the cap.

Just fix the curve and everyone is happy it's not complicated actually the AFL is making it complicated when it doesn't have to be

What other choice do Geelong have? Geelong rarely finishes near the bottom of the ladder to have acccess to some of the best young footballers in the country and to add insult to injury several interstate sides secretly hog a lot of the best young players who happen to reside in their state, denying other clubs a look in to recruit them in the first place!

No wonder the Geelong administration feels the need to resort to these sort of tactics. I generally despise the concept of poaching but since the league has introduced measures that rewards mediocrity in the form of the draft and gives preferential treatment to insterstate sides, this is an approach from Geelong's perspective that evens the playing field just a tiny bit.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

What other choice do Geelong have? Geelong rarely finishes near the bottom of the ladder to have acccess to some of the best young footballers in the country and to add insult to injury several interstate sides secretly hog a lot of the best young players who happen to reside in their state, denying other clubs a look in to recruit them in the first place!

No wonder the Geelong administration feels the need to resort to these sort of tactics. I generally despise the concept of poaching but since the league has introduced measures that rewards mediocrity in the form of the draft and gives preferential treatment to insterstate sides, this is an approach from Geelong's perspective that evens the playing field just a tiny bit.

Never said Geelong did anything wrong but they should be the last club to complain about these measures, I mean the gift of Hawkins for a packet of used Twisties is still there.

They are doing the right thing and have a system where they don’t need to rebuild

 

[Dirty Bird]

Sheezel, Tsatas and Bailey Smith all recent top 10 picks who made it clear to non Victorian clubs not to draft them

Same as Cyril Rioli and Archie Perkins.

I'd argue it's more draft tampering than anything Adelaide did in that whole Kurt Tippett saga.

 

[sunsofanarchy]

Same as Cyril Rioli and Archie Perkins.

I'd argue it's more draft tampering than anything Adelaide did in that whole Kurt Tippett saga.

Forgot about Perkins... #violinsoutforvics

 

[Taper]

Fagan is an average coach who has benefited from a truckload of high draft picks, as well as the Lions academy and father sons.
Take away these leg ups and Fagan is nothing more than a poor man's Neil Craig.
Craig was a far better tactician than Fagan, and Craig never had access to high draft picks, an academy or father sons.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

new ball taken

 

[Freomaniac]

Fagan is an average coach who has benefited from a truckload of high draft picks, as well as the Lions academy and father sons.
Take away these leg ups and Fagan is nothing more than a poor man's Neil Craig.
Craig was a far better tactician than Fagan, and Craig never had access to high draft picks, an academy or father sons.

Well.... About Neil Craig...

He coached the crows from mid 2004 to mid 2011.

2004, the crows didn't make the 8. So that's one top 10 pick.

Crows made finals every year from 2005-2009. Crows only had one top 10 pick in that period. That was Patrick Dangerfield in 2007

 

[.Shotties.]

Thank goodness for academies, otherwise athletes such as Nick Blakey and Cooper Hodge never would have heard of AFL footy and would have potentially been lost to the game forever.

It's highly likely that they would have gone the way of the other father-sons who grew up and played their football north of Wollongong.

 

[.Shotties.]

. Bordering on tongue in cheek woke BS.

Hahaha, what the **** is this sentence?