Ratten - struggling with the pressure of AFL coaching?

[krustyman]

rattan thought the job was done and made a fatal mistake of trying to save judd for the next game by resting him for most of the last quarter

 

[tugga]

Comes across as very unintelligent.
Terrible coach who could hold back Carlton's development.
They need to make the hard call and part ways with him now.
They won't though. Jobs for mates.

 

[TerryWallet]

Ratten, like any AFL Coach, won't succeed until/unless he has

a) credibility and respect of EVERYONE inside the Club
b) cutting edge AFL coaching ability
c) he is THE man in charge

He has (a) covered but very doubtful about (b) and (c).


Many more fail than succeed.

 

[Kenny Hunter]

Judd will be 27 next year.

Yes and No
Judd is currently 25, will turn 26 in 2 days .
So he will be playing the 2010 home and away season aged 26 , at least 6 years remaining in the guy, so ratten not wrong on the babies blues point

 

[EagleMan87]

Yes and No
Judd is currently 25, will turn 26 in 2 days .
So he will be playing the 2010 home and away season aged 26 , at least 6 years remaining in the guy, so ratten not wrong on the babies blues point

What? He's your captain, turning 26 and has played in seven finals series, how is he still a 'baby'?

 

[Kenny Hunter]

A few points:
What was Carlton's aim this year? Make finals , DONE!
What was Carlton weakness before the year started? Their Backline with a lack of tall defenders. And with a lack of back up and young defenders still learning they lost 2 key defenders for most of the year in Jamison our full back and Waite our most exp player tall defender who also is a swingman

And what in the end killed off our season on Sat night ? another option to play on Bradshaw (being Jamo) and Waite to play either on Brown, fill the spot in front of him which he does well or go up foward as another option
to Fev.

Is Ratten struggling? Well Mark Thompson struggled at Geelong for 7 years and finally in his 8th year they did something and now they're one of the great sides ever.
For a few years now some have been comparing our rise to the hawks of the last few years. Took Clarkson 3 full years to get the Hawks into finals and the 4th year of his coaching to win the flag. Ratten just completed his 2nd full year and they finished where punters expected them to. Carlton are coming from hell , the worst of their history you don't turn that around overnight.

 

[Kenny Hunter]

What? He's your captain, turning 26 and has played in seven finals series, how is he still a 'baby'?

Ratten's quote ''When you think of a ruck combination of (Matthew) Kreuzer and (Shaun) Hampson, and (Marc) Murphy and Judd are still young, they are babies.''

Meaning, Kreuzer 20,Warnock 22 Hampson 21,Murphy 22 Gibbs 20 Grigg21 Joeseph 20 , they're babies our midfield for the future and then he goes Judd is still young

 

[Blind Turn]

Fevola has spent years picking and choosing when to chase and tackle. He only does it if he's in a certain mood, or if it suits him to do so. The effect of this is that when Fevola does pull himself together and make a regulation tackle all the commentators laud him as if it's the most amazing tackle of all time. They are so accustomed to seeing him not chase, that when he does put in the minimum effort, it is a big event.

Now I learn that it's not just the media getting excited when Fev decides to chase, his own coach will tell the world that last nights "...chasing effort was the best I have ever seen of any power forward."

Ratten should be setting Fevola's effort last night as the minimum standard for him going forward. If Fevola gets it into his head that that is the best defensive performance by a power forward ever, then he will never be able to better it. Ratten should be demanding higher standards from Fevola.

Great post. Ratten should meekly step aside for you, Rohan 25.

 

[mediumsizered]

Because you disagree with me, then I must have read it on BF? I don't base any of my opinions on things I have read on BF champ.

If you're satisfied with his work rate then that's fine. I stand by my opinion that if your coach wants to proclaim his effort last night as the best defensive effort by a power forward of all time, then he is setting the bar far too low.

Did he actually say the best defensive effort by a power forward of all time, or is there a touch of embellishment on your part because the reality of Fev's defensive game, is a lot different to your biased point of view? What's your opinion of Jonathan Brown's defensive game? How about Nick Riewoldt?

Fev has laid 1 more tackle for this season than your own John Anthony. Are you happy with the defensive side of Anthony's game? You should be, because that is better than what Brown, Riewoldt & Franklin achieved defensively this season.

Don't make the mistake of being sucked in by the media highlighting the minority of bad days Fev has, rather than the far more regular good days. Fev will secure his 3rd AA representation this season on the back of a season when, except for a 3 game down period, he was the best performed FF in the competition, both in kicking goals & with his defensive efforts.

 

[Grimreepah]

Link

"I thought his game tonight, his chasing effort, was the best I have ever seen of any power forward. He was probably best on ground for what he tried to do for his team. It was unbelievable," Ratten said.

 

[laminex]

Ratten is too 'Carlton' to coach that team with any balance.

His problem as a coach is that he has limited cards to play due to the nature of his list. The core of his team is very good but they are young. Like all coaches he needs his best players playing well to win but you can't run/rely on them 100% of the time.

What he should have said is that Black singlehandly stole the game from Carlton and he f***ed up by not respecting him enough - especially going into the last qtr. They would have been happy going head-to-head up until that point and they probably thought he'd have trouble running out the game, but you don't take the chance with champions.

No wonder he forgot about him in the press conference.

TBH Ratten's done better than I thought he could but without Judd he would struggle to get them into finals. No plan B and plan A only works because Judd is so good.

JD you should coach you know all, all the time, but you would have to give up the dole and your due for LSL so i guess a jobs not going to happen hey.

 

[laminex]

I reckon Ratten will prove to be Carlton's Grant Thomas.

Was the perfect person to right the ship but not the bloke to take them to the next level.

This you may very well be right on.

 

[laminex]

Did he actually say the best defensive effort by a power forward of all time, or is there a touch of embellishment on your part because the reality of Fev's defensive game, is a lot different to your biased point of view? What's your opinion of Jonathan Brown's defensive game? How about Nick Riewoldt?

Fev has laid 1 more tackle for this season than your own John Anthony. Are you happy with the defensive side of Anthony's game? You should be, because that is better than what Brown, Riewoldt & Franklin achieved defensively this season.

Don't make the mistake of being sucked in by the media highlighting the minority of bad days Fev has, rather than the far more regular good days. Fev will secure his 3rd AA representation this season on the back of a season when, except for a 3 game down period, he was the best performed FF in the competition, both in kicking goals & with his defensive efforts.

Never bring facts onto big-footy all the trolls and tools who think they know something about the game do not care and will just skip over them.

 

[Sydney Blue]

Round 10 2006, Geelong lost at Skilled Stadium after a 6 goal lead at three quarter time.

After that loss, I recall a lot of questions were raised about the coaching ability of Mark Thompson. Few would question that now.

In reality, the Geelong side was still developing the resilience that made them such a force only 12 months later. One could argue that the Geelong side and their coach learned a lot that day at Skilled Stadium.

Younger sides can be inconsistent, and giving up a 5 goal lead in an away final against a combination of Brown and Bradshaw, is not so surprising really.

Whether Ratten can take Carlton to a flag in the years ahead will only be answered in time, but only a fool would write him off due to the Eliminaton Final loss.

The Blues have a developing side, a developing coach, and a lot to look forward to in 2010.

 

[laminex]

A few points:
What was Carlton's aim this year? Make finals , DONE!
What was Carlton weakness before the year started? Their Backline with a lack of tall defenders. And with a lack of back up and young defenders still learning they lost 2 key defenders for most of the year in Jamison our full back and Waite our most exp player tall defender who also is a swingman

And what in the end killed off our season on Sat night ? another option to play on Bradshaw (being Jamo) and Waite to play either on Brown, fill the spot in front of him which he does well or go up foward as another option
to Fev.

Is Ratten struggling? Well Mark Thompson struggled at Geelong for 7 years and finally in his 8th year they did something and now they're one of the great sides ever.
For a few years now some have been comparing our rise to the hawks of the last few years. Took Clarkson 3 full years to get the Hawks into finals and the 4th year of his coaching to win the flag. Ratten just completed his 2nd full year and they finished where punters expected them to. Carlton are coming from hell , the worst of their history you don't turn that around overnight.

But you can tri

 

[mediumsizered]

Link

Ratten says it is the best he has ever seen, not the best of all time. There is a significant difference & it was said at a time when Ratts was no doubt still shellshocked by the events of the last quarter.

Regardless, it takes nothing away from the fact that the poster who questioned Fev's defensive pressure was way off the mark & guilty of being sucked in by the media & BF's tendency to highlight the exception rather than the rule.

 

[apollo_creed]

Round 10 2006, Geelong lost at Skilled Stadium after a 6 goal lead at three quarter time.

After that loss, I recall a lot of questions were raised about the coaching ability of Mark Thompson. Few would question that now.

In reality, the Geelong side was still developing the resilience that made them such a force only 12 months later. One could argue that the Geelong side and their coach learned a lot that day at Skilled Stadium.

Younger sides can be inconsistent, and giving up a 5 goal lead in an away final against a combination of Brown and Bradshaw, is not so surprising really.

Whether Ratten can take Carlton to a flag in the years ahead will only be answered in time, but only a fool would write him off due to the Eliminaton Final loss.

The Blues have a developing side, a developing coach, and a lot to look forward to in 2010.

The list is far better than the results/performances he has extracted from them.

He's got the fruits of many unsuccessful seasons. A ridiculous number of high draft picks, Chris Judd and Brendon Fevola.

Carlton's list strength should see them perform better than the rubbish they regularly serve up.

Ratten is limited as a coach. Very much so.

If you're satisfied with him it is ONLY because of his connections to the club.
You need to release these infatuations and start looking at things objectively.

One could speak a long list of his coaching limitations but who has the time?

 

[Il Naso De Gastev]

Round 10 2006, Geelong lost at Skilled Stadium after a 6 goal lead at three quarter time.

After that loss, I recall a lot of questions were raised about the coaching ability of Mark Thompson. Few would question that now.

It is a misconception to think coaches all of a sudden find the key to success after 7 years at the helm of a club. Coaching is far and away the most over-rated caper in the game. You can set structures and a game plan, and analyse issues to the nth degree, but unless blokes have the will to get the best out of themselves, they will struggle.

I have spoken to Mark Thompson directly on this issue. He has done nothing different in all his time at Geelong...Thompson was a dead duck at the time. No fresh ideas, and playing group with a lazy attitude. It is the players that have taken it upon themselves to change the culture. I can vouch that Geelong basically owes its success to Matthew Scarlett who has driven that club, and its attitude, over the last 4 years. Scarlett straightened out Ablett, and basically laid the law down to the playing group, that either they learn the meaning of hard work, or they can wallow in mediocrity for their entire careers. I know from the horses mouth that Thompson would not even need to attend on matchday, such is the onus that the players take to drive the ship themselves.

Ratten is a pretty poor frontman, who is seemingly bereft of ideas when Carlton can't get their hands on the ball. He appears basically totally reliant on the brilliance of certain players to win matches on natural talent, rather than grunt or work ethic... unless the playing group at Carlton can change their culture to one which works for each other, rather than themselves, "they're coming" nowhere.

 

[Grimreepah]

It is a misconception to think coaches all of a sudden find the key to success after 7 years at the helm of a club. Coaching is far and away the most over-rated caper in the game. You can set structures and a game plan, and analyse issues to the nth degree, but unless blokes have the will to get the best out of themselves, they will struggle.

I have spoken to Mark Thompson directly on this issue. He has done nothing different in all his time at Geelong...Thompson was a dead duck at the time. It is the players that have taken it upon themselves to change the culture. I can vouch that Geelong basically owes its success to Matthew Scarlett who has driven that club, and its attitude, over the last 4 years. No fresh ideas, and playing group with a lazy attitude. Scarlett straightened out Ablett, and basically laid the law down to the playing group, that either they learn the meaning of hard work, or they can wallow in mediocrity for their entire careers. I know from the horses mouth that Thompson would not even need to attend on matchday, such is the onus that the players take to drive the ship themselves.

Ratten is a pretty poor frontman, who is seemingly bereft of ideas when Carlton can't get their hands on the ball. He appears basically totally reliant on the brilliance of certain players to win matches on natural talent, rather than grunt or work ethic... unless the playing group at Carlton can change their culture to one which works for each other, rather than themselves, "they're coming" nowhere.

If a player can have such a profound effect on the playing group, surely a coach can too.

 

[Sydney Blue]

The list is far better than the results/performances he has extracted from them.

He's got the fruits of many unsuccessful seasons. A ridiculous number of high draft picks, Chris Judd and Brendon Fevola.

Carlton's list strength should see them perform better than the rubbish they regularly serve up.

So you rate the 2009 Carlton list better than 7th in the competition?

The high draft picks (and the other young talent) are all still developing, so I'd say 7th best overall is about right this year. Next year should be getting better though.

Perhaps if you nominated the team you followed, you might have more credibility.

 

[Il Naso De Gastev]

If a player can have such a profound effect on the playing group, surely a coach can too.

They can, but it's traditionally rare. Mark Thompson definitely hasn't.

 

[Il Naso De Gastev]

The list is far better than the results/performances he has extracted from them.

He's got the fruits of many unsuccessful seasons. A ridiculous number of high draft picks, Chris Judd and Brendon Fevola.

Carlton's list strength should see them perform better than the rubbish they regularly serve up.

Ratten is limited as a coach. Very much so.

If you're satisfied with him it is ONLY because of his connections to the club.
You need to release these infatuations and start looking at things objectively.

One could speak a long list of his coaching limitations but who has the time?

You need look no further than the bottom 6 players in Carlton's 22 to see where their list is at. Arguably the worst bottom 6 in the comp... Melbourne and Richmond included. The top echelon isn't the problem.

 

[BLUES82]

I think he needs some more help in the box on matchday, someone with no emotional attatchment to Carlton would be nice, Laidley perhaps?

 

[SirJimi05]

I think he needs some more help in the box on matchday, someone with no emotional attatchment to Carlton would be nice, Laidley perhaps?

I agree with this. The big question mark over him at the moment is tactically on match day. I think Knight's has out coached him on a couple of occasions and this is something tha Knight's needs to improve on also. Having said this, they are both still relatively new to the capper and are getting some good results. I wouldn't say he is struggling. Dean Bailey is the one that seems to be struggling imo.

 

[Blue and Gold Blood]

If Judd is a baby, then Gibbs is a foetus. Yarran will have cause for concern next year when ratten refers to him during a press conference as the pre-ejaculated sperm cell of John Elliot.